Bus Manufacturer News & Discussion

[joieman]

Probably an obvious question, but has the Mellor Sigma range been discontinued? They're not shown on the website anymore.

Yes. I guess Mellor's administration and subsequent buyout put paid to the Sigma project.

 

[PG]

Probably an obvious question, but has the Mellor Sigma range been discontinued? They're not shown on the website anymore.

Yes. I guess Mellor's administration and subsequent buyout put paid to the Sigma project.

This was mentioned upthread - see post #2337

 

[MotCO]

This was mentioned upthread - see post #2337

Didnt Whippet order 12? Have they all been delivered?

I also recall that the Sigma range was actually a range built by another company, probably in China. Do they still exist?

 

[Volvodart]

Didnt Whippet order 12? Have they all been delivered?

I also recall that the Sigma range was actually a range built by another company, probably in China. Do they still exist?

WIsdom Motor of China are very much alive.

It appears Omnicar have taken on at least some of the range.

Omnicar Electric Minibuses Unveiled at Bus2Bus 2024: Revolutionizing Urban Mobility electrical minibus

Join Omnicar at Bus2Bus 2024 in Berlin with our electric minibuses. Discover innovative, sustainable solutions designed for tomorrow's cities today

omnicar.eu

 

[Bungle965]

Didnt Whippet order 12? Have they all been delivered?

I also recall that the Sigma range was actually a range built by another company, probably in China. Do they still exist?

Bustimes.org suggest 9

Fleet list – Whippet Coaches – bustimes.org

bustimes.org

I know Big Lemon in Brighton has a couple of them also, I have actually taken a ride one, different is probably the word to describe them!


I do wonder if an availability of spare parts may lead to their downfall.

 

[Man of Kent]

Bustimes.org suggest 9

Fleet list – Whippet Coaches – bustimes.org

bustimes.org

I know Big Lemon in Brighton has a couple of them also, I have actually taken a ride one, different is probably the word to describe them!


I do wonder if an availability of spare parts may lead to their downfall.

The Big Lemon vehicles are Higer Steeds. Only the smallest Mellor, the Sigma 7, has the same layout - all other Mellor Sigmas are conventional "door forward" designs.

 

[Bungle965]

The Big Lemon vehicles are Higer Steeds. Only the smallest Mellor, the Sigma 7, has the same layout - all other Mellor Sigmas are conventional "door forward" designs.

Ah yes of course!
Not exactly a design that has taken off!

 

[MotCO]

The Big Lemon vehicles are Higer Steeds. Only the smallest Mellor, the Sigma 7, has the same layout - all other Mellor Sigmas are conventional "door forward" designs.

Yes, that's who I was thinking of in post #2643

 

[computerSaysNo]

A lot of the noise upstairs in Lothian Buses' Gemini 3 vehicles seems to come from the vibrating of the nearside-facing body panel at the top of the stairs. I can see that the top of this panel is attached to the structure by several round things which look like they need a special key [edit - I realised you can't see them very well in the image - they are circular on the circumference, then working inwards have a sunken doughnut-shaped indent, then have a triangular shaped bit poking out] - are these screws which could be tightened? Or are they just clips (i.e. they have binary "locked" and "unlocked" states but otherwise cannot be adjusted)? How is the panel restrained at the bottom - is it just slid downwards into place without any screws or glue or anything? The panels which vibrate especially loudly seem to be looser at the bottom than they ought to be.

See the image for the area I'm describing - the embedded one is just a screenshot; click on the Flickr link for the full size.

Thanks!

https://flic.kr/p/Q8STyb
Image is copyright ©Stuart Robert Barber.

 

[PG]

A lot of the noise upstairs in Lothian Buses' Gemini 3 vehicles seems to come from the vibrating of the nearside-facing body panel at the top of the stairs.

Having examined the highest resolution available on Flickr it looks like those fasteners are binary i.e. locked or unlocked with no option for tightening. Presumably whatever is on the back, and what it locks into, is insufficient to counter the vibration experienced in service.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Having examined the highest resolution available on Flickr it looks like those fasteners are binary i.e. locked or unlocked with no option for tightening. Presumably whatever is on the back, and what it locks into, is insufficient to counter the vibration experienced in service.

Thanks, that's disappointing. I was on a Lothian Country ex-London B9 last week which had duct tape over one of the other panels and it wasn't vibrating at all; that seems like a good solution in terms of being practical but obviously isn't a good look for the bus company (I can see the headline "buses held together with sellotape" appearing now!).

 

[Towers]

How much of this ‘rattling buses’ business is, in fact, down to a simple lack of TLC from the operator, rather than alleged poor build quality? My local operator has a varied fleet, the staple on my route are 66 plate E400MMCs. They are undeniably filthy inside, with any flat surface other than the floor being thick with grot and dust. There is USB power fitted, proudly advertised externally, which sometimes works and sometimes doesn’t. Once upon a time there was wifi, which now seems to have been switched off. The large facia panels under the staircases frequently have half the screwholes lacking any screws in them. This is a ‘big group’ operator, not a cowboy.

The standard of general upkeep of vehicles is highly variable, but given the amount of abuse a bus takes, and the relentles pounding against abysmal road surfaces all day every day, it isn’t overly surprising that things like interior panels start getting a bit worse for wear when they clearly never get a second thought from a maintenance perspective! Things like interior fittings need to be revisited occasionally and fixings tightened etc, and it does seem that rarely ever happens.

 

[Spsf3232]

Thanks, that's disappointing. I was on a Lothian Country ex-London B9 last week which had duct tape over one of the other panels and it wasn't vibrating at all; that seems like a good solution in terms of being practical but obviously isn't a good look for the bus company (I can see the headline "buses held together with sellotape" appearing now!).

That's a big improvement of the usual weekly ticket holders that get used at some companies by drivers to hold things together or stop you going out your mind with rattles when your behind the wheel for 5 and a half hours!

 

[fgwrich]

That's a big improvement of the usual weekly ticket holders that get used at some companies by drivers to hold things together or stop you going out your mind with rattles when your behind the wheel for 5 and a half hours!

Sounds like some of the temporary repairs I've seen applied to Bombardier's Turbostars over the years

Speaking of rattles, I walked past a very sickly Stagecoach E200 Dart the other day which on idle was ratting so badly I'm surprised the panels weren't falling off.

 

[Mikw]

There will indeed, we have 9 on order which are due late 2025 or early 2026

As a passenger i really like the Levantes, super comfy, the chargers always seem to work, and they feel very stable on the motorway, they squeak a lot less than the the old Levantes too.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

How much of this ‘rattling buses’ business is, in fact, down to a simple lack of TLC from the operator, rather than alleged poor build quality? My local operator has a varied fleet, the staple on my route are 66 plate E400MMCs. They are undeniably filthy inside, with any flat surface other than the floor being thick with grot and dust. There is USB power fitted, proudly advertised externally, which sometimes works and sometimes doesn’t. Once upon a time there was wifi, which now seems to have been switched off. The large facia panels under the staircases frequently have half the screwholes lacking any screws in them. This is a ‘big group’ operator, not a cowboy.

The standard of general upkeep of vehicles is highly variable, but given the amount of abuse a bus takes, and the relentles pounding against abysmal road surfaces all day every day, it isn’t overly surprising that things like interior panels start getting a bit worse for wear when they clearly never get a second thought from a maintenance perspective! Things like interior fittings need to be revisited occasionally and fixings tightened etc, and it does seem that rarely ever happens.

First Glasgow's E200 EVs rattled from day one

 

[JD2168]

In South Yorkshire the worst for rattling are the SL16 plate StreetLite’s with First that have the Daimler engine. These rattle & shudder violently on idle, the StreetDeck’s have got better than the original blue 65 plates which had rattling panels on the first day of service. The B9TL’s still have very little rattles at all despite age, most if there are are the emergency exit window upstairs at the back & the front left suspension area. The Volvo B9TL & B7RLE still ride better than StreetDecks & StreetLite’s.

With Stagecoach they started off with little rattles but get much worse as they go along, usual areas are emergency exit & the cab door. What can exaggerate the rattles with Stagecoach is some vehicles like Scania’s & the ADL Enviro 300 & 400 have a harsh ride particularly over bumpy roads or speed bumps.

 

[Towers]

First Glasgow's E200 EVs rattled from day one

Is it more noticeable on account of the lack of an engine, I wonder?

 

[Goldfish62]

Is it more noticeable on account of the lack of an engine, I wonder?

On London's ones I would say that's definitely the case. Upstairs they're silent so every noise from the bodywork is picked up.

 

[kevjs]

Nottingham City Transport buses generally have few rattles - but the Optare Versa's rattled really badly from new, was a relief when the Solo's replaced them on my local route!

About 20 years ago one of their fleets of double deckers was similarly very bad for rattles too.

The EV buses are generally much quieter though, but add squeaking into the mix (the squeaky afflicting also affecting many of the Formula E racing cars - wonder if that's normal but always been drowned out by the ICE on older motor vehicles?)

 

[Towers]

I was on one of First Hampshire’s new Kites recently and within the driving the cab there was what I can best describe as a subdued chiming sound which slowed and eventually stopped as the bus did the same. I thought how irritating that must be if it’s constant! It sounded intentional, i.e. not just a randon noise. Anybody know what it might be?

 

[Leyland Bus]

I was on one of First Hampshire’s new Kites recently and within the driving the cab there was what I can best describe as a subdued chiming sound which slowed and eventually stopped as the bus did the same. I thought how irritating that must be if it’s constant! It sounded intentional, i.e. not just a randon noise. Anybody know what it might be?

Electric buses have to make some form of noise as they are pretty quiet otherwise, something to do with making folk aware of their presence in towns and cities etc. Our E400City Electrics at Bolton make almost whale like chime sounds when the buses is accelerating and decelerating...

Bizarrely, once you've driven one for a few miles you hardly notice it... it sort of just blends into the background like an engine note would.

 

[Goldfish62]

I was on one of First Hampshire’s new Kites recently and within the driving the cab there was what I can best describe as a subdued chiming sound which slowed and eventually stopped as the bus did the same. I thought how irritating that must be if it’s constant! It sounded intentional, i.e. not just a randon noise. Anybody know what it might be?

Ambient noise. It's a legal requirement on all EVs, including cars built, after a certain date.

@Leyland Bus is right - you don't notice it after a while and if anything it's quite calming.

 

[Towers]

Ambient noise. It's a legal requirement on all EVs, including cars built, after a certain date.

@Leyland Bus is right - you don't notice it after a while and if anything it's quite calming.

Audible inside the cab?! Yikes that’s irritating!

 

[computerSaysNo]

Electric buses have to make some form of noise as they are pretty quiet otherwise, something to do with making folk aware of their presence in towns and cities etc.

Ambient noise. It's a legal requirement on all EVs, including cars built, after a certain date.

I'll keep this short as it's off topic but if I ever buy an EV and it has customisable ambient noise then I really want to change it to the sound the London Underground 1996 Jubilee Line stock makes; in my opinion when accelerating it sounds like the motors are going up through the gears which really helps give the impression the stock was built for maximum acceleration!

 

[Leyland Bus]

Audible inside the cab?! Yikes that’s irritating!

Honestly, it's quite the opposite, it's bizarre because you think it would but after a short time you really don't notice it. As @Goldfish62 says, it is rather calming

 

[aswilliamsuk]

Alexander Dennis has announced an order for 32 Enviro 100EV for Go-Ahead London (https://www.facebook.com/AlexanderD...g0-KTO78u4YrvDSIFIDfGShED0RlGTE&__tn__=,O,P-R).

 

[m79900]

Alexander Dennis has announced an order for 32 Enviro 100EV for Go-Ahead London (https://www.facebook.com/AlexanderDennisLimited/posts/pfbid0RsmsVuUKnk43xBRpeUiswuGnCmVXUGGi6Phtjtt2X4kB5PcPn7Lk8Y5SMoJ87amBl?__cft__[0]=AZWEL5c0QO99h4YRsZmTyXJ3eNzDwoWtDihYI-AIMNtRu5zYN8BZqTXUVrKL7t37w0zz-PGVDeDGsqosFWPDDIto84t905PY--CFGWU5tp7_XxVq6kxfGG2dkDSvnC2fhkKoaHP90i1QkPharOAh98MyZXubdVdwAMe6g0-KTO78u4YrvDSIFIDfGShED0RlGTE&__tn__=,O,P-R).

Can someone clear up:

Are the Enviro 100s built entirely in China, or is it just the chassis built in China and bodied in the UK or vice versa? Same goes for the new E400 and E200 EVs coming out.

 

[MotCO]

Alexander Dennis has announced an order for 32 Enviro 100EV for Go-Ahead London (https://www.facebook.com/AlexanderDennisLimited/posts/pfbid0RsmsVuUKnk43xBRpeUiswuGnCmVXUGGi6Phtjtt2X4kB5PcPn7Lk8Y5SMoJ87amBl?__cft__[0]=AZWEL5c0QO99h4YRsZmTyXJ3eNzDwoWtDihYI-AIMNtRu5zYN8BZqTXUVrKL7t37w0zz-PGVDeDGsqosFWPDDIto84t905PY--CFGWU5tp7_XxVq6kxfGG2dkDSvnC2fhkKoaHP90i1QkPharOAh98MyZXubdVdwAMe6g0-KTO78u4YrvDSIFIDfGShED0RlGTE&__tn__=,O,P-R).

See link with https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/london-buses-discussion.146383/page-111#post-6968028

 

[Edvid]

Can someone clear up:

Are the Enviro 100s built entirely in China, or is it just the chassis built in China and bodied in the UK or vice versa? Same goes for the new E400 and E200 EVs coming out.

100s built in China (by Guangtong Manufacture, who also build ADL products for the Hong Kong market), 400s in the UK it appears. 200s TBD as the range hasn't been launched yet.

ADL goes it alone with new electric bus range

www.passengertransport.co.uk

The Enviro400EV will be assembled at ADL’s Larbert facility where the manufacturer has introduced digital support tools and streamlined the build process, reducing the number of stages involved. These changes aim to enhance material, process, and quality control.

These updated methods will be gradually implemented across all of the manufacturer’s facilities, including Scarborough. In Scarborough, the single deck production hall is being expanded, and an off-site kitting and logistic facility has been recently announced. These developments are intended to substantially improve the production process.

These changes will also have a positive impact on the production of the new Enviro100EV midibus, a product ADL claims is a “small bus that feels just like a big bus”. It’s a new market segment for ADL, which has perhaps felt the increasingly flexed muscles of competitor Mellor and its Sigma range of electric midibuses – and increasingly full-sized buses – that are part-produced in China but finished in the UK.

ADL has drawn inspiration from Mellor’s production process. For the Enviro100EV, the chassis and bodyframe will be made by Guangtong Manufacture, ADL’s established contract manufacturing partner in China where ADL has churned out over 4,000 buses, mostly for the Hong Kong market, over the last 15 years. However, it stresses that high-value components like axles, drivelines, batteries, doors, seats, and destinations will be fitted at the ADL factory in Scarborough.

“Taking a more global view to our manufacturing strategy will allow us to increase our overall capacity and keep us competitive,” added Davies.