Where would you suggest for a "proper" Rail Replacement Bus link? I mean one where the buses are fully integrated with the rail services and has the infrastructure that you'd expect from rail. That is, integrated through-ticketing. Ticket machines, or even a shop selling tickets, at the bus stops. Proper shelters and information posters and screens. The huge infrastructure cost of rebuilt or new lines has doomed many new/revived rail links, but creating a "proper" bus link should be able to bring communities back into the national network.
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Bus links fully integrated with rail
- Thread starter fandroid
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
leytongabriel
Member
- Joined
- 27 Jan 2013
- Messages
- 639
Some seaside branches to improve year-round employment prospects and so holidaymakers can see getting there on public transport isn't difficult?
Eg Barnstaple to Ilfracombe and Bideford, Wareham - Swanage, Feniton -Sidmouth.
Perhaps also Penrith - Keswick and Matlock - Bakewell - Buxton
Eg Barnstaple to Ilfracombe and Bideford, Wareham - Swanage, Feniton -Sidmouth.
Perhaps also Penrith - Keswick and Matlock - Bakewell - Buxton
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Routes 555, 599, X4 and X5 in the Lakes which connect the major tourist areas.
All of Trawscymru.
The new half job Skelmersdale rail link.
All of Trawscymru.
The new half job Skelmersdale rail link.
zwk500
Veteran Member
Ringmer to Lewes, Hailsham to Polegate. Stamford bridge and Market Weighton to York.
To be most effective, such bus links need to be extremely frequent (‘turn up and go’ say 4-6 buses per hour) else be included in the underlying rail timetable databases. The wider industry probably needs to get better at integrating its systems for this to happen.
Would also suggest common branding, real time information, and all the protection of National Conditions of Carriage etc that you get from the National Rail network. Plus a relatively reliable bus link with bus priority else largely uncongested roads.
St Andrews isn’t far off this already.
Would also suggest common branding, real time information, and all the protection of National Conditions of Carriage etc that you get from the National Rail network. Plus a relatively reliable bus link with bus priority else largely uncongested roads.
St Andrews isn’t far off this already.
Taunton-Minehead has most of this now - through tickets and buses listed on the departures boards in the station. In a couple of months time it will even arrive and depart from what used to be one of the bay platforms. The only thing missing on any significant way is being part of the national conditions of carriage, and being able to buy through tickets on the bus/at stops.
Why this doesn't happen everywhere else already is a mystery
Why this doesn't happen everywhere else already is a mystery
Harpers Tate
Established Member
- Joined
- 10 May 2013
- Messages
- 2,047
Barton on Humber <> Hull. Scarborough <> Whitby. Colne <> Skipton. etc. "Gap filling".
If you manage to get properly integrated bus links then lines like Barton-Cleethorpes are getting closed. It will be like France where some of the minor lines are actually buses.
Ripon -> Harrogate using the 36, with the headways on that section increased from x30 to x20. Not sure I'd bother with ticket machines though except at Ripon bus station and Killinghall high street - most can cope with e-tickets. Integrated info, ticketing, and protection if you miss your train/bus due to a previous leg being delayed/cancelled.
Why, when the train service is 2tph with a prospect of 4tph? That apart, a good suggestion.
Realistically, the timings won't line up anyway due to bus and train delays. For that reason, the higher the frequency, the better.
The big question with integrating local bus destinations into the rail ticketing system is how local do you go? Would every single bus stop be listed or would one “destination” (Wimborne Town, Broadstone North, etc) cover a series of stops within a locality?
zwk500
Veteran Member
My personal is that stips considered 'major' destinations would be put in but not necessarily every street corner stop. So a village would have 1 or maybe 2 destinations, a town 3 or so.
I would just keep it simple with each town being assigned a zone of sorts.
zwk500
Veteran Member
It wouldn't be every village, only those that have a specified integrated link.
That's a hell of a lot of villages. Stick to the towns, with rail like links - direct and limited stop as though it was a branch line.
If anything else needs doing (and with contactless I don't really see the point) then do plus bus.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It's less about fares and more about timetables. If people search for something in a planner and it doesn't come up they assume it's not served.
It's a shame we don't have a 9292ov equivalent in the UK - Traveline was never really successful in that way. You can use Google Maps but I think there is less trust than an official site.
zwk500
Veteran Member
Considering that most of these villages have a branchline proposal as well and nobody ever objects to branch lines on the grounds of data entry for TIPLOCs and CRS codes I don't think the database is really a problem. Keeping the times up to date would be, but that's a separate issue.
The issue is that in order for integrated public transport to be truly competitive with private transport, you need every possible journey combination to be available. Making a journey from Village X to Town Y involving two bus journeys and a rail journey in between would be a lot easier if a National destination database could allow passengers to book a through journey in a single transaction, as is the case now with a rail-only journey.
zwk500
Veteran Member
It still wouldn't be truly competitive against private transport unless the rail leg was 100+ miles, the two interchanges would be killer. Door-to-Door times matter as much as ease of transaction.
This implies that you would need to run dedicated buses specifically for that flow, which wouldn’t make sense if the demand for it could be catered for by an existing local bus route
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I think it's necessary to accept that public transport will never be able to compete on absolutely every journey. However, there are significant flows where it doesn't even try. It's those you want to concentrate on.
So the answer is a multi mode journey planner, like the TfL one. But without any actual integration.
Not sure I get your point - how many villages have branchline proposals?
I think there is a case for rail buses - fake trains to significant places off the rail network. But putting all buses in the rail system and having through ticketing seems a lot of grief for the railway for little gain. Contactless and/or plus bus can look after it.
How - as long as the buses have contactless payment how much of a problem is the bus fare being separate? If you are hoping for guaranteed service then that is a huge contractual and admin mess the railway really don't need. When the bus doesn't turn up at an unstaffed station what is the railway call centre going to do and who is going to pay for it?
Depends. Does the existing route cater for attracting people who want a train not a bus, or is it just a local bus traipsing around all the villages etc?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
You could get away without fares integration on a regional scale*, but you would certainly want some level of timetable integration. There's no sense, for instance, in having buses to Ambleside depart Windermere 5 minutes before the hourly train arrives.
(I find this one is fairly decent timetable wise, to be honest)
* I say "on a regional scale" because the game in urban areas is totally different - the idea of charging someone an extra two quid for having the temerity not to live near a station is ridiculous. In urban areas, the whole system should be integrated in terms of both ticketing and timetables, with rail providing the backbone and bus connecting it to places without rail and a single guiding mind being in control of both. Even London fails here; Germany is educational.
zwk500
Veteran Member
Integrated fares is as important as journey planners
Any village with a pub tbh, I never said they were all serious! But pretty much every closed rail line has at least somebody campaigning for it.
Indeed - a lot of bus links are actually in the planning system, but you've hit the nail on the head for why they aren't used very much.
As long as it takes normal contactless and doesn't require a separate ITSO smartcard for BOTH bus and train this wouldn't be a problem.
Like you say, this would have to be determined on a case by case basis. If the majority of patronage is local and only heading to places directly served by the route, then it makes sense to keep the existing local service as an all-purpose bus route. If it’s people making onward travel whether via rail or another bus, a limited stop service would be beneficial, but this would come at the expense of those who use the stops that don’t warrant being served by an express route. With most able-bodied passengers walking slightly further to use the faster express route, expect the all-stops service to be drastically reduced or replaced with a taxishare.
IMO that is the bus regulator's problem. Rail does its thing and the buses can work around it.
I meant contactless payment rather than smartcards.
Apart from my general anti-bus snobbery the main two things that put me off buses are not knowing how to pay the fare (ie some buses wouldn't give change and I would have no idea how much the fare is) and timetables.
Buses need a recognised national timetable app like the railway has. And then thrash that over all channels - TV/social media adverts telling how you use this app and its all easy, and that all buses take contactless payments so don't worry about the fare.
And the app should have a feature that if you put in a place it shows you the best way to get to a railway station.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It's not officially recognised, but bustimes.org is excellent for, er, bus times.
- Status