Bus Industry in Peril

[TheGrandWazoo]

People will drive buses if pay and conditions are improved. Conditions include quality of management.

This could be the end of for-profit unregulated commercial bus operation, but not the end of buses as a thing.

I think we're all agreed that it would be good for drivers to get paid more....as it would be for nurses, or care assistants. The question is how do we pay for that?

For me personally, conditions is the biggest factor in the industry. If you get conditions spot on then you'll always have the ability to get staff in. Pay should go up year on year in affordable doses but there's no excuses for being any less than 100% spot on with working conditions and it appears that in the bus industry, managers lack any sort of people skills which is huge too. Dealing with the public is a huge issue but good working conditions is a basic thing any management should achieve and if they don't then time to move on and let someone who will do the job

Have you ever actually worked in the industry or seen "behind the scenes"?

Or for that matter, have you seen how drivers are treated in the freight industry?

I gather that in Scotland we currently have major transport firms saying they're carrying between 65-75% of pre-COVID numbers. Surely if driver numbers weren’t the issue then theoretically all they have to do is match the ridership and the service level. Technically that means they would be back to how they operated before, albeit with a lesser amount of buses on the road.

The problem is that, as @RT4038 so correctly states, is that you're still paying a lump of fixed cost and that doesn't go down if you have fewer vehicles.

On the staffing front, yes it didn't help that drivers were poached to drive HGVs but there is generally a regular turnover of bus drivers anyway as staff move on in their career to jobs that either pay better, offer more sociable hours or simply less interaction with the public! The problem has more been recruiting and training new staff and this wasn't helped by the delays to new trainee drivers receiving their licences. The other issue as a result of Covid is that the numbers of drivers off work sick has been higher.

That there has always been a churn is true enough. However, the Brexit effect has been felt massively in the freight world and so the disparity between what they can pay and the bus industry has become even greater.

 

[PaulMc7]

Have you ever actually worked in the industry or seen "behind the scenes"?

Or for that matter, have you seen how drivers are treated in the freight industry?

I haven't as I don't drive so never been a reason to ever be there but I've known drivers at different depots and there's been plenty on here said by drivers or ex-drivers as well as other social media that points towards utterly abysmal conditions for working. There are a lot of newer drivers on my current most used routes and in a short space of time I've watched the mood in them change very quickly too.

It seems to be the same with the big 3 in Glasgow and the surrounding areas too.

The frieght industry is horrible and HGV driving involves a lot of horrible conditions too but let's not get away from the main point of the thread. Bus companies need to adapt because staff won't accept poor working conditions anywhere near as much as they used to.

Getting up and leaving is far more common in every industry now. Pay does need to improve too but working conditions is the main one for me.

 

[philthetube]

The 12 hour shift is a bit of a misnomer in that drivers working in the logistics world are doing that as well.

The problem is also that the logistics (lorries) and bus industry have long had the challenge of an aging workforce AND the reliance on drivers from Eastern Europe. With Covid, the older drivers have retired naturally or going on furlough has simply brought it forward. In the latter, those drivers who were purely here (on their own) for the cash went back when Covid lockdowns came in. Different if they'd come over with families and put down roots. Otherwise they went back (as did many with families) and now, thanks to Brexit, they can't or won't return. Remember that whilst supermarkets kept going through the lockdowns, drivers for non-food retail or hospitality weren't needed and if you weren't earning, would you stay in a rented house in Rugby or head back home to Lithuania?

Whether it be trucks or buses, the fact is that foreign labour helped to paper over the cracks for years.

The difference is now that you have the logistics industry (esp. grocery retail) being able to out compete the bus industry in terms of drivers wages. You can add £2/hour onto a drivers' wages via a penny on a tin of beans and a shopper barely notices. However, to do the same on bus fares and the impact is much greater - 20p on a single fare? Much greater impact on price elasticity of demand.

However, the impact of staff shortages is now all pervasive. I was walking through a local town at 4pm the other afternoon and both WH Smiths and Waterstones had closed through lack of staff.

however lorries do at least have stricter drivers hours to protect them. and as things develop seem to be getting back to normal better than buses are

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

Are buses full at rush hours any more? With working from home and internet shopping the city centres are dying, and with it commuting. The days of buses leaving every 2-3 minutes with 70+ people on board have gone..
Public transport will ned to reinvent itself.

Certainly in London anyway. Try the route 133 towards Liverpool Street in the morning peak - double deckers every few minutes and rammed to the point where the driver can't even open the front doors at some stops.

 

[E-Rail]

I'm reliably informed some Damory drivers are on more than that, with some having paid breaks. First Wessex are paying their drivers approx. £10.56 an hour, so fairly comparative with the competitors.

Damory drivers on bus rotas in Poole do not have paid breaks. They are on £10.35 an hour.

 

[RT4038]

Why can't big companies give drivers decent shifts? Years ago, a driver would be on the same duty for a whole week. None of this mucking around having different start times and doing different routes.

That would be a good starting point to fix.

That may well have happened in some companies/depots, but at others having the same duty rostered in the same week was a no-no. I am sure there would be an equal number of people complaining about being bored by having such a repetitive week.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

interesting reading all the different points of view.

I personally don’t see a decent way out of these problems other than our government getting more bums out of cars and travelling by bus again.

More revenue then you certainly have a case for improved wages.

We could make a start on doing this, but the effort and dissatisfaction to voters is to much to swallow for politicians.

I’m just after watching Question Time on iPlayer and a lady in the audience had mentioned the fact that Newcastle has lost both a Debenhams and Boots, 2 large employers within the town centre.

You’ve got to ask yourself, if it weren’t for household budgets going on not just excess Gas & Electric bills but also car ownership of Finance, Rd Tax, MOTs, Tires etc etc as well as the fuel itself then maybe more people on buses could certainly help protect the industry somewhat more as well as them travelling to there local high street, helping out a local economy.

I can see bus services becoming very skeletal, even more so than they are at the moment yet most car owners will likely be feeling a pinch but can still ultimately afford that lifestyle.

Only the lowest income household will be feeling the issues.

To change the fate of bus service we need societal change.

 

[freetoview33]

But what was the load profile? If its a full load of ENCTS passengers then it's not profitable (and actually not allowed under the scheme rules to be profitable).

And there lies the circle that can't be squared. Revenue is basically capped as a result of ENCTS and to increase reimbursement means increasing fares for passengers that actually pay. Increase them too much and you'll lose them. Don't increase them and you'll lose the drivers to better paying jobs.

After 23 years in the industry, I am confident in predicting we are in the end game of bus services in their present form.

Mainly younger fare paying passengers, very few older people actually.

 

[RT4038]

interesting reading all the different points of view.

I personally don’t see a decent way out of these problems other than our government getting more bums out of cars and travelling by bus again.

The problem being that the government (of whatever hue) is, by and large, going to do what is popular with the majority of voters (who have or aspire to a car), and this means supporting and continuing with private cars. Generally, people who have got cars do not want to be riding buses, so forcing them to do so is not going to be popular , as you point out, and the politicians want to be re-elected.

I can see bus services becoming very skeletal, even more so than they are at the moment yet most car owners will likely be feeling a pinch but can still ultimately afford that lifestyle.

A bit like bus services in the USA then.

To change the fate of bus service we need societal change.

Which is always possible.

 

[Geordie driver]

One of my big local operators recently made a big deal of their new starter rate going up from £9.08 to £9.50 like they were such a great employer. The minimum wage for over 23s is £9.50. They never mention massive unpaid breaks, effectively split shifts, 5 1/5 hours without the chance to even leave the cab.

If anyone on this thread thinks that is a reasonable return for what bus driving involves, you go and do it.

Once or twice a year I arrange a meet up for some of the old hands from my driving days, hardly anyone remains driving buses, the numbers simply don't stack up. HGV1 pays double, with EU driving hours too, not the disgrace that is UK driving hours. Even HGV 2 is 50% more and no interaction with the " great" British public.

COVID did hit the industry hard, but not for the reasons the companies claim. Drivers realised how little the company cares for them, the every corner cut industry standard endured long into the pandemic. Zero support from the management while they lied about mask enforcement and cleaning regimes.

At one time drivers left for other jobs then returned after a couple of years, the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence type thing. This doesn't happen now, as the grass in genuinely greener.

It's a strange industry and once you step away from it you realize how bizarrely it is run, I would never recommend it to anyone.

 

[Dai Corner]

I can see bus services becoming very skeletal, even more so than they are at the moment yet most car owners will likely be feeling a pinch but can still ultimately afford that lifestyle.

Only the lowest income household will be feeling the issues.

To change the fate of bus service we need societal change.

You want to go back to the middle of the last century when few people could afford cars, most had to take whatever job they could find within walking or cycling distance of home or where public transport could take them and the bus industry was in its heyday?

 

[RT4038]

One of my big local operators recently made a big deal of their new starter rate going up from £9.08 to £9.50 like they were such a great employer. The minimum wage for over 23s is £9.50. They never mention massive unpaid breaks, effectively split shifts, 5 1/5 hours without the chance to even leave the cab.

If anyone on this thread thinks that is a reasonable return for what bus driving involves, you go and do it.

Once or twice a year I arrange a meet up for some of the old hands from my driving days, hardly anyone remains driving buses, the numbers simply don't stack up. HGV1 pays double, with EU driving hours too, not the disgrace that is UK driving hours. Even HGV 2 is 50% more and no interaction with the " great" British public.

COVID did hit the industry hard, but not for the reasons the companies claim. Drivers realised how little the company cares for them, the every corner cut industry standard endured long into the pandemic. Zero support from the management while they lied about mask enforcement and cleaning regimes.

At one time drivers left for other jobs then returned after a couple of years, the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence type thing. This doesn't happen now, as the grass in genuinely greener.

It's a strange industry and once you step away from it you realize how bizarrely it is run, I would never recommend it to anyone.

So bus services should have been been reduced to a skeleton 20 years ago, as no-one (neither passengers or subsidising bodies) was/are going to pay for good conditions for drivers. Would that have been a better alternative? Bus work has been towards the bottom of the employment pile (depending on area and economic circumstances) since the 1950s - the customer base sharply declining, leaving only those who have to use the product; the majority of voters (who all have cars) keeping the industry in penury.

I would suggest that the bus industry is not that much different in terms and conditions to any other industry faced with similar economic conditions (any that haven't simply gone out of business that is)

 

[Bletchleyite]

So bus services should have been been reduced to a skeleton 20 years ago, as no-one (neither passengers or subsidising bodies) was/are going to pay for good conditions for drivers. Would that have been a better alternative? Bus work has been towards the bottom of the employment pile (depending on area and economic circumstances) since the 1950s - the customer base sharply declining, leaving only those who have to use the product; the majority of voters (who all have cars) keeping the industry in penury.

I would suggest that the bus industry is not that much different in terms and conditions to any other industry faced with similar economic conditions (any that haven't simply gone out of business that is)

A better alternative would have been fewer, better buses with staff on better wages and conditions integrated with rail as part of a co-ordinated national public transport system rather than the two being left separate to enjoy (rail)/endure (bus) vastly different funding and regulatory conditions.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I haven't as I don't drive so never been a reason to ever be there but I've known drivers at different depots and there's been plenty on here said by drivers or ex-drivers as well as other social media that points towards utterly abysmal conditions for working. There are a lot of newer drivers on my current most used routes and in a short space of time I've watched the mood in them change very quickly too.

It seems to be the same with the big 3 in Glasgow and the surrounding areas too.

The frieght industry is horrible and HGV driving involves a lot of horrible conditions too but let's not get away from the main point of the thread. Bus companies need to adapt because staff won't accept poor working conditions anywhere near as much as they used to.

Getting up and leaving is far more common in every industry now. Pay does need to improve too but working conditions is the main one for me.

Going round speaking to the odd driver or hoovering up info from social media is no substitute for actually being involved in the transport industry. The idea that managers lack any sort of people skills is, frankly, a massive and incorrect assertion.

it appears that in the bus industry, managers lack any sort of people skills which is huge too. Dealing with the public is a huge issue but good working conditions is a basic thing any management should achieve and if they don't then time to move on and let someone who will do the job

As in any industry, you have a whole range of personality types in management positions. It varies from front line managers (senior drivers, inspectors, controllers) through to depot/ops managers and then to GMs or MDs. You will get some that are arrogant or ignorant or ill-considered but that's the same in any industry, and in life. Much the same as drivers not being some homogenous group of people. I'd also tackle one of the usual hackneyed old cliches... these bright eyed graduates with no experience, blah, blah. Certainly at the lower levels, we are talking about controllers etc are usually former drivers so they know exactly the challenges that drivers have, and that often that extends to depot managers/ops managers.

On a more general response and to a number of posters.....

The fact is that there are many drivers who have gone for the money and the gap that used to exist between bus and truck driving has become a chasm. A good comparison used to be between PCV rates and Class C (rigid LGV) ones - Royal Mail is offering contracts that equate to paying £33k a year - this is not artic work and no nights out. This was not the issue so much in the past but an aging workforce (with some simply not returning from furlough) and the impact of Brexit have massively skewed things in the freight world and they can offer much improved terms and conditions. The number of EU LGV drivers has reduced by 1/3 since March 2020; the reduction in UK drivers has also been notable (about 8% but of a much larger total) as some have been furloughed and simply not returned to the industry.

There are certainly areas where bus driving can be made more attractive, or where things can be done differently. The provision of decent welfare facilities in town centres is one... Nothing worse than only having a 35 min break and then spending time looking for a toilet or having to consume your lunch in your cab. Certainly, the issue of super depots is a problem in terms of far flung locations, a restricted employee pool to fish in, and then shuttling drivers around to get to their vehicles.

However, it is not easily soluble. Better pay and conditions (whilst laudable) requires more money. Against a backdrop of rising fuel and domestic prices, it's difficult to recover that from the farebox. Suggesting otherwise fails to fully appreciate the challenges that the bus industry is up against. Some on this board seem to adopt the old Top Gear view of "how hard can it be?".... I prefer the George Burns quote: "Too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are busy driving taxicabs and cutting hair"

 

[RT4038]

A better alternative would have been fewer, better buses with staff on better wages and conditions integrated with rail as part of a co-ordinated national public transport system rather than the two being left separate to enjoy (rail)/endure (bus) vastly different funding and regulatory conditions.

It may well have been, but we are where we are!

 

[jon0844]

A better alternative would have been fewer, better buses with staff on better wages and conditions integrated with rail as part of a co-ordinated national public transport system rather than the two being left separate to enjoy (rail)/endure (bus) vastly different funding and regulatory conditions.

That's fine, and frankly the only thing that's possible without massive spending, but having connecting buses isn't always easy or practical - especially if there are many trains and few buses. Do buses wait for delayed trains, running the risk of people missing other connections or getting delayed such that next time they get a cab?

The best solution* is a bus service that's frequent enough that people can turn up and go, without consulting a timetable or checking information (besides checking the next bus is running) and then there's no need to connect with trains, which helps if a bus connects multiple rail lines. Bus operators don't generally want buses to wait around, and drivers probably don't like it either - so if we really want people to feel confident at getting a bus instead of a car, whether for work or pleasure, you need a decent frequency and early and late buses.

Just like the trains, that will mean buses running emptier at certain times of the day. There's really nothing you can do about that, and it's very much a chicken and egg scenario. Hopefully in time, as people get more confident to use a bus, the patronage will increase and fill even the off-peak buses, or the late night buses earlier in the week.

The other thing we need to do is more integrated fares. If you can pay on a bus with contactless, that's great - but when you tap in on the train, it should now adjust the fare accordingly - so either the bus is free or cheaper (or you're charged like using plus Bus).

* Almost certainly isn't happening anywhere it isn't already, like big cities.

 

[richw]

Going round speaking to the odd driver or hoovering up info from social media is no substitute for actually being involved in the transport industry. The idea that managers lack any sort of people skills is, frankly, a massive and incorrect assertion.

Most who post these kind of comments are those who’ve been disposed of and shown the door, or certainly that’s the case in my social media contacts.
Majority are happy where i am, but there’s always one moaning, and that person gets heard louder than those happily going about their work.
Where else can I work, and go to the beach or a theme park, or a sports match for the day, normally we get in free of charge too.
Just last week I took a school group to a large attraction. The Ticket office issued me a complimentary entrance and gave me a voucher for the cafe too.
Another colleague went to a theme park last week, admitted free and spent the day on the rides.
Sometimes the hires assigned aren’t great but on the whole most are easy days out.

 

[Geordie driver]

I would suggest that the bus industry is not that much different in terms and conditions to any other industry faced with similar economic conditions (any that haven't simply gone out of business that is)

You have just foisted a bunch of opinions on me that I have never stated together with some imagined "facts" and used them to declare yourself right.

One thing the industry isn't short of,"experts".

 

[Ken H]

You want to go back to the middle of the last century when few people could afford cars, most had to take whatever job they could find within walking or cycling distance of home or where public transport could take them and the bus industry was in its heyday?

There was the density then. Lots of terraced houses, most work on the city centre. Everything is so widely geographically dispersed now.

 

[Dai Corner]

Most who post these kind of comments are those who’ve been disposed of and shown the door, or certainly that’s the case in my social media contacts.
Majority are happy where i am, but there’s always one moaning, and that person gets heard louder than those happily going about their work.
Where else can I work, and go to the beach or a theme park, or a sports match for the day, normally we get in free of charge too.
Just last week I took a school group to a large attraction. The Ticket office issued me a complimentary entrance and gave me a voucher for the cafe too.
Another colleague went to a theme park last week, admitted free and spent the day on the rides.
Sometimes the hires assigned aren’t great but on the whole most are easy days out.

Not in the bus (as opposed to private hire coach) industry.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not in the bus (as opposed to private hire coach) industry.

I must admit, assuming I'm in sufficient health, that I'm actively considering tourist coach driving as a retirement job (I doubt it will be fully automated by then). It's low-paid, but taking nice people on a nice day out sounds like a pleasant experience to me, plus I like driving big vehicles. I wouldn't consider local bus, though, nor would I be a fan of shuttling badly behaved schoolkids around.

 

[AutoKratz]

Two weeks ago I was caring for my mum who’s in a wheelchair for a few days. It’s painful for her to get in and out of my car so we were using the bus so she could be comfortable in the chair throughout the day. I haven’t used the bus for donkeys years but I was shocked by a few things:

• Fares are expensive - I would go as far to say a rip off
• Tickets are confusing and drivers didn’t have the time to explain
• Drivers couldn’t be bothered with the ramp so we felt like a bother just trying to get on and off the bus
• Planning a journey is so time consuming - trying to work out which bus to get and if the times are ok and being careful not to mess it up especially when the bus you want is every hour.
• Buses are not frequent enough, we had to wait 40 minutes after finishing at the pharmacy as the bus was hourly. For a 15 minute journey this is unacceptable.
• The journey is not relaxing. I had to follow the blue circle on Google maps so I knew where we were and make sure I could spot the stop well in advance to press the bell.
• One bus took a ridiculous long route going all round the houses and after 5 minutes or so you end up back at the estate entrance to continue down the main road it just diverted off. How is this attractive for passengers?
• Lastly, people are so close to one another, coughing and spluttering all over the place with no-one (except us) wearing a face mask.

Even if you’re open minded to using the bus when you have a car it’s not good enough.

 

[jon0844]

Fares are expensive, partly due to the free bus pass users and the way companies get paid (i.e. a percentage of the standard fare - so if they want to make money, they need to charge the fare payer more, who then don't use the bus, the buses end up with only free bus users, and the bus is eventually cut or axed).

Tickets can be confusing, but that can be resolved - especially with smart ticketing and contactless payment options rapidly becoming the norm. Not saying it would be easy or quick to do, but things like allowing the use of multiple operators and charging a flexible ticket price at the end of the day if you did so, or a discounted day ticket for that bus operator if you didn't, as well as giving discounts for returns, multiple journeys over a day/week/month/year etc, would all make it a lot easier and enticing.

Drivers should be bothered with the ramp - that's not acceptable, end of. That isn't a public transport problem per se. Report a driver doing that next time.

Journey planning can be an issue, although apps like Google Maps are getting better at doing this, as well as other apps, as long as all buses can provide real-time information on their location so they can see if a bus is delayed/cancelled and re-calculate an itinerary. Local authorities should be pushing for that to happen, but sadly outside of big cities it can often be based purely on timetabled data alone.

Buses aren't frequent enough because of what I said earlier; and that's part of the reason less people use them.. but bus companies will not run empty buses even if a more frequent service will encourage more people to use buses overall.

Not knowing where you are on a bus is also inexcusable in this day and age, given how long buses in London and around the world could show where you were and the next stop. I have noticed more buses introducing this in recent years, but whereas you'd expect near 100% uptime on a London bus, elsewhere the screens can often be off/not working. Not all speak the next stop either, making the system useless for the visually impaired. Like ticketing, it can be resolved.

Buses taking long routes is a result of many services having been merged into one to become more affordable, often being the only way to retain coverage to those areas. We now have a bus that used to act as a shuttle to and from the train station, but now makes a 1.5 hour run that covers many towns, with some pretty big detours where you do a loop and come back to where you were. It's frustrating, but given a lot of people are getting free travel I guess they accept it. I fully understand why those who have other options will take them!

As for the latter, if your bus was so busy that people were that close to each other then at least it should be profitable enough to not be axed anytime soon. I can't recall travelling on buses (or trains) with people coughing and spluttering all over the place. It's a shame you experienced this, because I'd say that's absolutely not normal!

 

[anthony263]

Easyway minibus hire ltd in Bridgend are closing on 31st July. Adventure travel in Cardiff taking on the B3 Barry Town service and the 88 Barry to Penarth service on 1st August.

No word yet on the 32A Cardiff to St Fagans service which is still making a profit. Easyway reduced services due to reduced demand and lack of staff.

I’ve been working part time for adventure travel on Sundays since I was laid off by easyway just as lockdown was due to start.

Since April I started back with easyway part time on a Saturday driving the 32a st fagans service and at Adventure travel driving their 600/89 services on a Sunday. Hopefully adventure travel will take on the 32A.

60-60 coaches in Merthyr Tydfil are also closing next month too

 

[Taunton]

I think it was Beeching's chief Economist, Stuart Joy, who pointed out the illogicality of exactly the same arguments we are reading above, that the service (then rail, now bus) is portrayed by the industry and its supporters as "an essential service", whilst at the same time the same people know and describe that if you put the fares up the remaining customer base will rapidly find a different and better (for them) way to do things. So not really "essential" at all.

 

[jon0844]

Back in the 60s and 70s, everyone just figured the car was the better way to do things (hence why trains seemed far too expensive to run).. and now we're almost at £2 a litre, I suspect people are now looking quite desperately at alternatives to driving (or certainly seeking to not drive as much, as clearly there are times where driving is the only option).

Suddenly public transport seems quite enticing, and perhaps not as expensive in comparison to running a car. Buses need to play a part, but we don't run buses like we do trains and that alone puts people off.

 

[miklcct]

Why can't big companies give drivers decent shifts? Years ago, a driver would be on the same duty for a whole week. None of this mucking around having different start times and doing different routes.

That would be a good starting point to fix.

I have heard that, in the past, old-style rostering was two full-time drivers, one morning shift and one night shift, were permanently assigned to a fixed vehicle operating on a fixed schedule which would seldom be changed. Spare drivers are then used to cover the rest days of the fixed drivers, similarly for spare vehicles. The drivers would park the bus in a bus terminal for their meal break, meaning that the service frequency would become less during lunch hours.

Under such arrangement, the driver would take care of his vehicle more than if different vehicles are used every day.

Of course there are part-time drivers in the mix. Such drivers are used to operate one-off special routes like school workings, event workings, extra peak runs, or substitute sick drivers, etc.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I have heard that, in the past, old-style rostering was two full-time drivers, one morning shift and one night shift, were permanently assigned to a fixed vehicle operating on a fixed schedule which would seldom be changed. Spare drivers are then used to cover the rest days of the fixed drivers, similarly for spare vehicles. The drivers would park the bus in a bus terminal for their meal break, meaning that the service frequency would become less during lunch hours.

Under such arrangement, the driver would take care of his vehicle more than if different vehicles are used every day.

Of course there are part-time drivers in the mix. Such drivers are used to operate one-off special routes like school workings, event workings, extra peak runs, or substitute sick drivers, etc.

You heard wrong.

That only happened in small independents or very limited circumstances. My late father worked at a relatively small bus depot and you'd have 2, 3 or 4 drivers using a single vehicle across the course of a day.

 

[RT4038]

You heard wrong.

That only happened in small independents or very limited circumstances. My late father worked at a relatively small bus depot and you'd have 2, 3 or 4 drivers using a single vehicle across the course of a day.

I believe that this was the case in Hong Kong - not sure if it is still like that. Frequencies were halved for a period mid morning and evening whilst every other bus took a 30 min break at each end. This on frequent services of course!

 

[GusB]

As the thread was drifting off-topic, discussion of section 106 has been moved here:

Section 106 and Bus Services

Mod note: Posts #1-6 were moved from this thread: we don't run buses like we do trains and that alone puts people off. Whether "like trains" is that important or not, the requisite quality (soft and hard product) is absent from pretty much all UK bus operations with only a few exceptions...

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