Bus company refuses to accept Scottish bank note

[TheGrandWazoo]

Or addressing the issue, which is that if someone wishes to take the published option of paying with a note, to ensure change is available from it at all times.

Depends how big a float each driver should have if every punter brandishes a £20?

However, Best Western is right. It's a non story - suspect that First's statement is just some anondyne stuff to placate the lazy local rag and no more

 

[the101]

Forget legal tender, forget whether the Company is Scottish or not.

The fact is that the Company have confirmed such notes are an acceptable payment method, and Driver was wrong not to accept it.

If you're paid to do a job, you need to do it correctly, and you can't make up your own rules. If you are unsure of the rules, you check, rather than make it up.

Instead of moralising, perhaps you should have read the story.

It is clear that the driver did not refuse to accept 'such note'. He did not have any change. There is a big difference.

 

[455driver]

Forget legal tender, forget whether the Company is Scottish or not.

The fact is that the Company have confirmed such notes are an acceptable payment method, and Driver was wrong not to accept it.

If you're paid to do a job, you need to do it correctly, and you can't make up your own rules. If you are unsure of the rules, you check, rather than make it up.

The 'issue' as stated in the article, is that the driver didn't have enough change, what do you suggest in that situation?

Mind as you get off your high horse there Yorkie! :roll:

 

[jon0844]

The quicker buses are just set to accept contactless payment cards the better. Solves so many problems. (not that I'm saying all buses should only accept cards)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Depends how big a float each driver should have if every punter brandishes a £20?

Clearly you can't deal with every situation. But there are solutions, such as change vouchers. And simplifying and publishing fares more widely - people would be more likely to tender correct fare if it wasn't some kind of secret.

A passenger should never effectively be denied travel due to tendering a note that the bus company says it accepts or forced into significant, non refundable overpayment.

The real solution, of course, is card, mobile and other off bus ticketing. Paying cash on the bus is an archaic approach.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The 'issue' as stated in the article, is that the driver didn't have enough change, what do you suggest in that situation?



Mind as you get off your high horse there Yorkie! :roll:

That the Company modifies its policies to avoid the problem, such as introducing change vouchers, card payments, m-tickets.....?

 

[me123]

The real solution, of course, is card, mobile and other off bus ticketing. Paying cash on the bus is an archaic approach.

Agreed. One of the biggest problems I have with traveling by bus (and there are many!) is payment. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to go out of my way to make sure I have £1.85 in exact change (or whatever bizarre fare the bus company has decided to introduce, knowing full well that they can't give change).

I'm more likely to use the bus if there's a mobile ticketing option - which is what I do. I drive to a Park&Ride and Lothian Buses take me the rest of the way. I bulk buy single tickets* in advance and they're on my phone. It's an easy and quick solution.

*Other tickets are available on the app, like Day tickets

 

[Bletchleyite]

Lothian is one of the few offering singles on mobile ticketing, others (I'm looking at you, Arriva) need to follow. But contactless on board is also needed. I believe the big groups have agreed to do this by 2018, but it is needed sooner.

 

[455driver]

There is always an option, if the driver is unable to offer the correct change then the passenger foregoes the change.

As an ex bus driver you get sick and tired of people throwing large notes at you for small fares , it isn't difficult to make sure you have something close to the fare is it, but then, going by some of the previous posts its far too difficult for some people!

 

[Bletchleyite]

It would help if the bus company made the fares something other than a commercial secret. They should be available online and clearly displayed on all stop publicity. And if they are too complicated for that, simplify them.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

as an aside to this thread... at a company I used to work for we never had any float whatsoever... on the first run of the morning we had a man get on every morning tendering £1.50 for a £1.10. Of course every morning we were unable to give him his change... sometimes he would be lucky and someone would get on after him and he would get his change... but most mornings he paid for our cup of tea on our break..

he clearly got fed up with this and after doing the same shift 4 mornings on the trot and him not getting his change he exploded in my face "every F**king morning I get on this f**king bus and every f**king morning you pocket my f**king change"

I rather impolitely informed him that if he was unhappy then he should perhaps try to get on with the right money.... surprise surprise he got on the next morning with £1.50

to be fair if passengers don't know what the fare is then sure you can expect them to sometimes not have anywhere near the correct money but all too many regular passengers see the bus driver as a change machine....

 

[richw]

I could accept the exact change policies, if the exact fare was available online or somewhere in advance for infrequent travellers.
Ask everyone on this thread late on a Sunday evening (when the bus company call centres are closed)to find the respective bus and train fares between A and B. I bet the majority would have the train fare in seconds, but could spend ages looking and still not find the bus fare. The only way to find bus fares in advance seems to be calling the company or prior knowledge.
If they haven't the change here a credit note gets issued, occasionally drivers pull out their own wallet and swap a £20 for some £5s they have in their wallet.

 

[yorkie]

The 'issue' as stated in the article, is that the driver didn't have enough change, what do you suggest in that situation?

Mind as you get off your high horse there Yorkie! :roll:

I'm not the one on a high horse.

The lady claims that the driver did have change. That may have been incorrect. She also claims the driver was "aggressive". Perhaps that was incorrect too. But if what we're told is true, it's concerning.

If there really was no change, then surely the options are, to accept £3 toward the fare, or to issue a "change ticket" (though that may have left the customer £1 short), or to allow free travel, depending on the Company's policy.

The spokersperson said "it was unfortunate that in this instance, the driver did not take the bank note" so, regardless of the reason was for not taking it, the Company appears to be stating driver should have taken it.

 

[richw]

The spokersperson said "it was unfortunate that in this instance, the driver did not take the bank note" so, whatever the reason was for not taking it, the Company appears to be stating driver should have taken it.

He should have taken it and issued a £6 credit note if first Hampshire policies match other First Bus Groups

 

[ChrisPJ]

Can someone point me to a concise explanation of why this here United Kingdom needs the inefficiency of multiple banknote issuers?

 

[bb21]

My local Arriva subsidiary issues change vouchers for any amount. I have seen a £19 one before, when the punter tendered a £20 note for a £1 fare. Should have seen his face when told that a change voucher would be issued instead of him being allowed to travel for free, as per policy before this system was brought in.

Seems to work well.

Mobile ticketing will work well on single tickets where flat fares apply, but not sure it will be managed with staged fares. It seems to be more widely used with day tickets and those lasting longer.

 

[455driver]

When I was on the buses nobody was allowed to travel for free, no exceptions.

 

[richw]

When I was on the buses nobody was allowed to travel for free, no exceptions.

I believe they have their own version of a penalty fare, never seen or heard of it being used though.

 

[me123]

Can someone point me to a concise explanation of why this here United Kingdom needs the inefficiency of multiple banknote issuers?

Basically, it's a historical thing where the commercial banks were authorised to print their own notes. England restricted these rights, leaving the BoE as the only banknote issuer, but there was no similar restriction in Scotland and Northern Ireland. So we've continued to produce our own notes.

Unfortunately the central bank of the UK is dubbed the "Bank of England", which means that if it was the only issuer, people in Scotland and NI would be carrying around pictures of the Queen and banknotes with the word "England" on them - not everyone would be happy with this arrangement. This means that there's no real appetite for change. English and British are not synonymous, and that's why a lot of people (not just nationalists) would find a change to exclusively English banknotes to be a negative move.

If the Bank of England was called the Bank of the United Kingdom (which would be a more appropriate name.

 

[Bletchleyite]

BUnfortunately the central bank of the UK is dubbed the "Bank of England", which means that if it was the only issuer, people in Scotland and NI would be carrying around pictures of the Queen and banknotes with the word "England" on them

They already are to some extent. If you draw cash in Scotland from a non-Scottish bank (HSBC, Barclays or some private cash machines e.g the Raphael's Bank ones in airports) you get English notes. This is useful to know if you don't want Scottish notes.

 

[me123]

The lady claims that the driver did have change. That may have been incorrect. She also claims the driver was "aggressive". Perhaps that was incorrect too. But if what we're told is true, it's concerning.

I'm not buying the story. As I said earlier, the driver went from being "aggressive" to "sheepish" in a very quick space of time. That doesn't really fit. Furthermore, as I've said before, people tend to be quite forthright when not accepting Scottish money, so I don't see why he wouldn't just say that that was the problem if it indeed was.

I think it's more likely, based on what I've read, that the customer assumed that the Scottish note was the problem (when we have no objective evidence to say that it was the case) and has taken it all very personally.

The spokersperson said "it was unfortunate that in this instance, the driver did not take the bank note" so, regardless of the reason was for not taking it, the Company appears to be stating driver should have taken it.

The spokesperson probably got told that one of their drivers did not accept a Scottish banknote and responded appropriately. However, as we've said over and over again, there is no objective evidence that this was the issue here.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think it's more likely, based on what I've read, that the customer assumed that the Scottish note was the problem (when we have no objective evidence to say that it was the case) and has taken it all very personally.

That's my take on it as well. I think it's a bit poor that change availability on buses is so-so - but also that I have to pay cash at all in the first place in 2016 - but that's all that went on, and it is sort-of understandable as to why.

 

[me123]

They already are to some extent. If you draw cash in Scotland from a non-Scottish bank (HSBC, Barclays or some private cash machines e.g the Raphael's Bank ones in airports) you get English notes. This is useful to know if you don't want Scottish notes.

Yes English notes do circulate widely in Scotland, but I think if you removed the Scottish notes people would not be happy.

Not least of all the three issuing banks, who actually make a nice little profit on issuing notes (and get some advertising to boot).

I point blank refuse to go out of my way to obtain English notes when traveling down South. There is no reason to do. Scottish notes are legal currency, and in a standard retail transaction should be as acceptable as a BoE equivalent note. I'm not being awkward - I don't hand over £100 notes just to get a reaction and have a fight. I hand over whatever money I have (regardless of where it was issued), and if the retailer does not wish to accept my money, I will take my custom to a retailer that does.

 

[yorkie]

The spokesperson probably got told that one of their drivers did not accept a Scottish banknote and responded appropriately. However, as we've said over and over again, there is no objective evidence that this was the issue here.

I take it you're not disagreeing with me, and you agree that a change voucher should have been issued?

 

[me123]

I'm not entirely sure, because I don't have much experience with buses where change vouchers even exist, or even where the concept of "change" exists.

But from what I can see on the link above, the customer should have been offered a £5 change ticket, probably alongside one pound of actual change assuming the driver had that. Yes, I would broadly agree with you based on the link you provided and my limited experience in these situations.

Still doesn't mean that the Scottish note was the issue - the driver could have been unwilling to issue a change ticket or simply not known how to do it. I'd agree that, whatever actually happened, it's been handled badly. The potential customer left with a negative impression and appears to have been refused travel unnecessarily - even if it wasn't because of the Scottish note.

 

[LateThanNever]

Basically, it's a historical thing where the commercial banks were authorised to print their own notes. England restricted these rights, leaving the BoE as the only banknote issuer, but there was no similar restriction in Scotland and Northern Ireland. So we've continued to produce our own notes.

Unfortunately the central bank of the UK is dubbed the "Bank of England", which means that if it was the only issuer, people in Scotland and NI would be carrying around pictures of the Queen and banknotes with the word "England" on them - not everyone would be happy with this arrangement. This means that there's no real appetite for change. English and British are not synonymous, and that's why a lot of people (not just nationalists) would find a change to exclusively English banknotes to be a negative move.

If the Bank of England was called the Bank of the United Kingdom (which would be a more appropriate name.

The Bank of England was of course started by two Scotsman about 14 years before the Act of Union - are you trying to imply they had no foresight?

 

[IanD]

That's my take on it as well. I think it's a bit poor that change availability on buses is so-so - but also that I have to pay cash at all in the first place in 2016 - but that's all that went on, and it is sort-of understandable as to why.

I wonder how they do it in Germany.

 

[me123]

The Bank of England was of course started by two Scotsman about 14 years before the Act of Union - are you trying to imply they had no foresight?

Names can be changed...

 

[TheEscapist_]

Same thing happened to me on a first bus in Chelmsford. Driver refused. Fairly common in that area was hit and miss. Just went to a cash machine and got the next bus, all without going to the news.

 

[plannerman]

One thing which infuriates me is how hard it can be to find out a single fare - and so it's impossible to tender the correct fare, unless by chance you have it. I rarely ride on buses, but I took a journey with my nephew last Friday, on Arriva. In my mind, drivers don't like notes being tendered (maybe that's a hangover from the old days) so I checked the company website - no information on single fares. So I tweeted them - no response. Finally I called - no reply. As it happens, the fare was so expensive that a note was fine, through sheer luck.
Lack of information is a real achilles heel for companies which directly rely on being given cash by the general public, and I think it puts occasional riders off.

Separately, I was once refused at a Scottish supermarket when I tried to pay with a Northern Irish note. I think I used the phrase 'pot, kettle, black'.

 

[Romilly]

I point blank refuse to go out of my way to obtain English notes when traveling down South. There is no reason to do. Scottish notes are legal currency, and in a standard retail transaction should be as acceptable as a BoE equivalent note.

Interestingly, I have been told by a retailer in England who refused to accept a Scottish note that his reason for refusing it was that his bank charged him extra to handle any Scottish notes that he paid in. Of course, I have no idea whether that was in fact true.