Burscough Jn - Little Sutton (update: now Eastham Rake)

[yorkie]

Get this good value fare (valid via Moorfields & Ormskirk) while you can - it's due to go up from £1.80 SDR to £7.15 SDR in September.

An increase of 297.22%.:roll:

 

[lyndhurst25]

I used this ticket for the first time last week to travel from Aintree to Liverpool and back. Thanks for the notice and also to the other forum member who tipped me off about this fare in the first place.

I was wondering this ticket managed to get so obviously mis-priced in the first place? Presumably because it is such an obscure journey that nobody noticed (or cared).

I imagine that there must be a few other mis-priced tickets in the system but I can't think of an easy strategy to find them.

 

[bb21]

Another possibility is that it was deliberately kept low to keep the fares basket in check.

Then a few people start using it, the TOC realises that it has been discovered and now presents a revenue abstraction risk, so raises prices and possibly reduces other less well known ones.

 

[Frothy]

Another possibility is that it was deliberately kept low to keep the fares basket in check.

Then a few people start using it, the TOC realises that it has been discovered and now presents a revenue abstraction risk, so raises prices and possibly reduces other less well known ones.

Could you please explain what a fare basket is? Thanks

 

[bb21]

I'll try to make it simple.

It's to do with fares regulation. Regulated fares are only permitted to rise by a certain percentage each year. What happens in reality is that not all regulated fares have to be capped at that level. The measure is applied to the average increase of what is called a "basket of fares" including many different individual fares. Hence some can increase more than the cap and others less. This is used by some TOCs to increase popular fares by a bigger margin whereas unpopular fares decreased.

Of course it is a bit more complicated than this but this is the gist of it. I am also not saying that it is the case here, but a mere suggestion of a possibility.

 

[northwichcat]

What's also ridiculous is that there's a CDR the same price as the SDR.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

This is used by some TOCs to increase popular fares by a bigger margin whereas unpopular fares decreased.

I've never quite understood this.
Are you saying that, in terms of the basket, that (say) a Liverpool-Manchester fare and a Liverpool-Patricroft fare have the same weight in a fares basket?
Is there no moderating factor to ensure that a fares basket contains comparable fares (in terms of revenue)?
Otherwise it's a green light for the TOCs to exploit the system to their advantage.
Who chooses the contents of the basket, the TOC or DfT?

 

[northwichcat]

Otherwise it's a green light for the TOCs to exploit the system to their advantage.

Northern did that a few years back, they introduced a Chester-Manchester Route: Altrincham fare which undercut the Any Permitted fare in an attempt to get some of the Chester-Manchester revenue off ATW. However, the Chester-Knutsford fare was almost as much as a Chester-Manchester Route: Altrincham fare, so they lowered the Chester fares from Mid-Cheshire line stations but took the opportunity to raise regulated fares to Manchester from Mid-Cheshire well above the permitted average increase, with Manchester being a more popular destination than Chester.

 

[bb21]

Are you saying that, in terms of the basket, that (say) a Liverpool-Manchester fare and a Liverpool-Patricroft fare have the same weight in a fares basket?

No, they probably don't. I was only putting it in a grossly simplified way.

 

[Mojo]

I've never quite understood this.
Are you saying that, in terms of the basket, that (say) a Liverpool-Manchester fare and a Liverpool-Patricroft fare have the same weight in a fares basket?
Is there no moderating factor to ensure that a fares basket contains comparable fares (in terms of revenue)?
Otherwise it's a green light for the TOCs to exploit the system to their advantage.
Who chooses the contents of the basket, the TOC or DfT?

There are limits to an extent; whilst the average increase for the entire basket cannot rise by more than RPI+1% (RPI+3% for West Yorkshire), an individual regulated fare cannot be increased in price by more than RPI+6% (RPI+8% for West Yorkshire or RPI+3% for Southern).

I lean towards actually saying that this is one of the more positive impacts of fares regulation, as it allows operators to keep prices low on the (typically) quieter flows but increase them on the busier routes. One such example is seen in the South West where Great Western several years ago cut ticket prices on many flows in Devon and Cornwall, but increased them on busier routes elsewhere on their regional network.

Ticket types and flows that fall within the fares basket are set by the DfT.

See http://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/4289/sra-fares-conclusions-2003.pdf from page 37 (numbered 36) onwards. Slightly out of date, but gives an overview of the fares that come into each basket.

 

[bb21]

What's also ridiculous is that there's a CDR the same price as the SDR.

Chances are that the SDR is regulated, so acted effectively as a "ceiling" while the CDR is not regulated.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

See http://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/4289/sra-fares-conclusions-2003.pdf from page 37 (numbered 36) onwards. Slightly out of date, but gives an overview of the fares that come into each basket.

Thanks for the link.
Successive governments have failed to revise the fares system in any radical way.
Even the present government's review did not change anything significant.
Shoulder-peak and smartcards is about the limit of changes in prospect.
Labour talk about "a new fares deal", but would they actually have the courage to introduce one?
Rhetorical question I now, but it must be time for a radical shake up in what was essentially BR's system, now well over 20 years old.
I think the "short/long distance" split in fares type (eg CDR versus SVR) is now outdated.
Longer-distance day trips are now common but are not catered for (and give rise to many of the split-ticketing anomalies).
Why is there a CDR Preston-Edinburgh (£38), but not Preston-Newcastle (SVR £74.30) or even Preston-London (SVR £84.80)?
I'm not expecting answers, just hoping that one day the fares system will have some logic about it.

 

[northwichcat]

I think the "short/long distance" split in fares type (eg CDR versus SVR) is now outdated.

There also isn't any consistency in which flows have CDRs and which routes don't. You can find a 35 mile flow with no CDR but can find 60 mile flows with CDRs even when there isn't a real choice of alternative routes.

 

[Merseysider]

Get this good value fare (valid via Moorfields & Ormskirk) while you can - it's due to go up from £1.80 SDR to £7.15 SDR in September.

An increase of 297.22%.:roll:

Is there a webpage or similar that describes which other fares are to increase?

 

[Hadders]

In theory everyone's in favour of fares simplification but taking the example above on a Preston to Edinburgh/Newcastle.

I doubt very much we'd see the introduction of a Preston-Newcastle CDR as this would reduce revenue.

Chances are the Preston-Edinburgh CDR would be withdrawn to make fares more 'simple'.

In practice I strongly suspect that simplification will increase fares and remove rights (such as break of journey, starting/finishing short, combinations of tickets).

 

[greatkingrat]

Get this good value fare (valid via Moorfields & Ormskirk) while you can - it's due to go up from £1.80 SDR to £7.15 SDR in September.

An increase of 297.22%.:roll:

Also worth noting that it is still currently possible to buy this fare online for future dates after September.

 

[bb21]

Yes, it will only be effective 28 days before the new fares round.

 

[Frothy]

I'll try to make it simple.

Thanks a lot!

 

[yorkie]

Also worth noting that it is still currently possible to buy this fare online for future dates after September.

And Thetrainline lets you buy many months ahead. True, there is a booking fee per transaction (£1.50?) but for that you can get several bookings (up to 10?) in one transaction.

A station can issue fares even further ahead.

 

[bb21]

Yes, ten tickets (single or return) in one transaction, although beware that the fees are tiered.

 

[Merseysider]

Yes, it will only be effective 28 days before the new fares round.

Do we know what that date will be?

 

[greatkingrat]

New fares manual NFM19 takes effect from Sunday 7th September, so the new fares should be in booking engines from Sunday 10th August.

 

[nedchester]

Had a nice cheap day out in Liverpool today with my wife today courtesy of this!!

Well spotted, but only a month to go!

 

[pauldavies83]

Would this be valid from Burscough Bridge via Southport, as there is no service to/from Burscough Junction on Sundays.

 

[Merseysider]

Would this be valid from Burscough Bridge via Southport, as there is no service to/from Burscough Junction on Sundays.

Yes, but the price has now gone up to £6.85 rather than £1.70.

 

[yorkie]

Would this be valid from Burscough Bridge via Southport, as there is no service to/from Burscough Junction on Sundays.

You can get itineraries for this, so I'd recommend printing the itinerary in case you're challenged.

However as Jake says, the price has increased. But I will send you a PM about another fare that may interest you...

 

[lyndhurst25]

You can get itineraries for this, so I'd recommend printing the itinerary in case you're challenged.

However as Jake says, the price has increased. But I will send you a PM about another fare that may interest you...

Is this a new cheap obscure fare that Maerseyrail have had to introduce to keep the fare "basket" low? I'll have to hunt for that (or a PM would be much appreciated!).

 

[yorkie]

Burscough Jn - Eastham Rake for £2.60 Anytime Day Return (SDR) looks remarkably good value!

Anyone doing an intermediate journey such as Ormskirk - Liverpool, or Birkenhead - Liverpool will save money with this fare.

 

[Merseysider]

Burscough Jn - Eastham Rake for £2.60 Anytime Day Return looks remarkably good value!

Anyone doing an intermediate journey such as Ormskirk to Liverpool, or Birkenhead - Liverpool will save money with this fare.

To anyone in the Merseyside area, National Rail Enquiries will give an itinerary for Burscough Junction to Eastham Rake via:

Burscough Bridge and Southport
Burscough Bridge, Wigan and Kirkby
Burscough Bridge, Wigan and St Helens Central.

Note that this fare will soon increase in price by 196%. Get it while you can!

Some booking offices are willing to sell tickets far ahead of the 3 months online booking engines will allow.

 

[Merseysider]

I wrote to Merseyrail querying their decision to increase the SDR by 196% and the CDR by 179%, for Eastham Rake - Burscough Junction.

Dear Mr Fassam

Thank you for your email regarding the 2015 fares for Burscough Junction to Eastham Rake.

Due to an error in 2014 prices, for this flow decreased by over 60% compared to 2013. The 2014 decrease led to a fare anomaly whereby the cost of fare from Eastham Rake to Burscough Junction (via Liverpool City Centre) was lower priced than a fare from Eastham Rake to Liverpool City Centre. Prices in 2015 will increase to set the fare back to 2013 level with adjustments for RPI since.

With regards your query about reducing other flows in the same basket, the Burscough Junction to Eastham Rake route is not part of the Merseyrail regulated basket.

Kind Regards

Jade --------
Customer Relations

[sic]

Worth a try. But I am surprised (Merseyrail are the fare setter) that apparently it is not part of their regulated fares basket. Was there a Saver fare for this flow in 1995? I don't think there would have been.


According to the Office of Rail Regulation,

Merseyrail's concession agreement with the local Passenger Transport Executive (PTE) limits regulated fares to an average increase of RPI (no plus addition).