Building New Stations Where Lines Intersect

[TheGrew]

Hi Everyone
I am shortly going to move up-to Warrington, where obviously you have two different stations on lines that intersect but don't connect (Central and Bank Quay). I appreciate the reason for this is historical (two competing railway companies) however it occurred why now we don't consolidate the stations into a more 'Tamworth like' station where the lines intersect. For example the proposal at Worcester Parkway.

Surely this would have two major benefits:
1. Open up new potential for interchanges between lines
2. Reduce operational overhead due to consolidation

I imagine the main reason for not doing this would simply be cost but I would be interested to see a cost benefit analysis as it could potentially make some journeys more straight forward like Sankey to Euston.

Does anyone else know of any other locations where such an interchange station would make sense?

 

[Ivo]

If it was possible surely Bicester would have been an (or even the?) obvious choice as part of Evergreen 3 and the East-West Rail project?

 

[gordonthemoron]

perhaps they could move Bletchley station so it's on East-West rail line?

 

[martinsh]

Hartford

 

[30907]

Interesting thought - Meadowhall and Toton on HS2 are new-build versions - but would the traffic potential justify it? All the major traffic centres around there are reasonably well interconnected.

On a historical note, Tamworth was an interchange for mails more than humans and has only recently had enough of a service to consider it an interchange.
Worcs SP was originally conceived to avoid CC having to go via Shrub Hill rather than as an interchange I think.
Yeovil is another one that has never progressed.

Bletchley will get HL platforms.

 

[mr_jrt]

perhaps they could move Bletchley station so it's on East-West rail line?

It is!

They're building platforms on the flyover, but the irony is that the intercity services which used to stop at Bletchley now stop at Milton Keynes.

 

[DarloRich]

It is!

They're building platforms on the flyover, but the irony is that the intercity services which used to stop at Bletchley now stop at Milton Keynes.

Why is it ironic? That is what you get for becoming a suburb of a bigger new town. The station still has a good service of trains from LM

I think it as A platform on the flyover rather than 2.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

If it was possible surely Bicester would have been an (or even the?) obvious choice as part of Evergreen 3 and the East-West Rail project?

Forgive me if I've misunderstood you, but then how would the Bicester Curve serve Bicester? Further, you'd be taking the one of the town's stations away from Bicester Village, which from what I can gather is hugely popular to access via rail. Unless you'd keep Town station (which would serve Village and the Curve) and resite North to the junction?

 

[gordonthemoron]

It is!

They're building platforms on the flyover, but the irony is that the intercity services which used to stop at Bletchley now stop at Milton Keynes.

sounds scary, and quite a hike from the existing station

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Smethwick Galton Bridge is an intersection station station built in recent times and provides some useful connections.

 

[DarloRich]

sounds scary, and quite a hike from the existing station

just run a bridge off the exisiting footbridge - problem solved

 

[TheWalrus]

Maybe have a Gloucester station on the main lines for the fast XC services to call.

 

[Eagle]

Maybe have a Gloucester station on the main lines for the fast XC services to call.

It wouldn't be very central. If you want passengers to use it for getting to Gloucester you'd probably have to site it north of the triangle, and have Cardiff/ATW services call there to act as connectors.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yeovil is another one that has never progressed.

That's because the point where the lines cross is in the middle of nowhere. (Then again Yeovil Junction is also in the middle of nowhere, and until the 1990s wasn't even in the same county as the town it purports to serve.)

 

[Fred26]

I'm a fan of the idea. I like to use the example of the Goblin - a line that crosses lots of others, but only connects (in station) at Barking, Blackhorse Road and Gospel Oak. I'd build a station everywhere lines cross and close several as a result. At the eastern end Woodgrange Park, Wanstead Park, Forest Gate and Manor Park could become one large station...

 

[WatcherZero]

Hi Everyone
I am shortly going to move up-to Warrington, where obviously you have two different stations on lines that intersect but don't connect (Central and Bank Quay). I appreciate the reason for this is historical (two competing railway companies) however it occurred why now we don't consolidate the stations into a more 'Tamworth like' station where the lines intersect. For example the proposal at Worcester Parkway.

Surely this would have two major benefits:
1. Open up new potential for interchanges between lines
2. Reduce operational overhead due to consolidation

I imagine the main reason for not doing this would simply be cost but I would be interested to see a cost benefit analysis as it could potentially make some journeys more straight forward like Sankey to Euston.

Does anyone else know of any other locations where such an interchange station would make sense?

Lostock, platforms on the Bolton line but not on the Wigan line, would be easily fixed just by adding more platforms.

 

[LexyBoy]

It wouldn't be very central. If you want passengers to use it for getting to Gloucester you'd probably have to site it north of the triangle, and have Cardiff/ATW services call there to act as connectors.

Actually it would be a more central in terms of the whole city, but certainly further from the city centre.

Personally I'd put a station in the south to serve Tuffley & Quedgeley but obviously this would be in addition to, rather than replacing, the central station.

I think this will be the case for most places - whilst a single station would offer some benefits, it will almost always be in a worse location - partly of course because so much development will have been directed by the existing station(s).

 

[Eagle]

Brixton would be a lot more useful if it had platforms on the SLL (it passes right over the CML line platforms). Sadly it's a case of cost > benefit.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Canterbury, but unfortunately the location where the two routes cross is considerably inconveniently located for any purpose other than interchange so would not be viable!

 

[noddingdonkey]

Plans keep being discussed to build a viaduct type arrangement linking Bradford Interchange to Forster Square, with a station in the middle to replace both. Can't see it ever happening though.

 

[Darren R]

Plans keep being discussed to build a viaduct type arrangement linking Bradford Interchange to Forster Square, with a station in the middle to replace both. Can't see it ever happening though.

This is an idea that's been kicking around for years. If the Midland Railway couldn't manage it Bradford Council aren't gonna be able to do it now! (Ironic really - Bradford city centre literally is a hole! There's virtually nothing between the two stations and hasn't been for years since it was all demolished to make way for the shopping centre than never was.)

Surprised no-one's mentioned Burscough, where the Preston - Ormskirk line bisects the Wigan Wallgate - Southport Chapel St lines at almost 90 degrees. Not sure what the situation is now, but NetworkRail were seriously looking at this as an option - seem to remember even seeing detailed plans somewhere.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

If it was possible surely Bicester would have been an (or even the?) obvious choice as part of Evergreen 3 and the East-West Rail project?

I'm not sure it's worth it really. Town station is always going to stay where it is just because of it's prime location in Bicester, especially given how important the Bicester Village retail outlet has become.

There is no real reason why Bicester North couldn't have been placed elsewhere in the town when it was built, but putting a new station down where the lines cross would be problematic as I think road access to the new station might be tricky because of how the nearby industrial estate has been built right up to the railway boundary.

It would take a lot of money to get things at a new station up to the standards of Bicester North, and really what would it achieve? The "cross" shape of the station wouldn't really be as useful as it is in other locations such as Tamworth or Smethwick Galton Bridge because the people who live along the East/West route have other options. Just going along the line trying to figure out who would benefit, Oxford would be connected to Marylebone anyway and already has an existing service to Banbury and Birmingham. People in Bicester would just do what they always have done. Milton Keynes already has a service to Birmingham and will also have a service to High Wycombe via Aylesbury. MK to Banbury might be valid via Oxford. I presume Bedford passengers will just change in Bletchley for Birmingham.

While I don't doubt it is somewhat useful I don't think it would be worth it given the cost and disruption it would cause.

 

[WatcherZero]

Merseytravel have in their initial list of possible future transport schemes a chord between the two St Helens stations at an estimated cost of £28m. Dont know how it would work in practise for services though.

 

[sheff1]

Room was available to do this at Wakefield at the time Westgate was modernised. The site was hardly any further from the city centre than the existing stations and a single station on the same scale as Liverpool South Parkway could have been created.

Now, though, the once available land has been used for industrial/commercial units and we are stuck with the eyesore that is Kirkgate and cramped Westgate.

 

[Eagle]

Merseytravel have in their initial list of possible future transport schemes a chord between the two St Helens stations at an estimated cost of £28m. Dont know how it would work in practise for services though.

That would actually be a reopening of a line which closed in 1981.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Lostock, platforms on the Bolton line but not on the Wigan line, would be easily fixed just by adding more platforms.

Whilst do-able, its a poor location, as the overlap for the junction protecting signal on the Up Wigan would either be too short or it would force the platforms quite a way Wigan side of the bridge. Either way, Down trains braking for the new station would reduce capacity on the main line. Buckshaw is really too close to Euxton to be perfect ...

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Room was available to do this at Wakefield at the time Westgate was modernised. The site was hardly any further from the city centre than the existing stations and a single station on the same scale as Liverpool South Parkway could have been created.

Now, though, the once available land has been used for industrial/commercial units and we are stuck with the eyesore that is Kirkgate and cramped Westgate.

This would've been a ridiculous idea! The point where the lines cross is considerably further from what is now the main commercial centre of Wakefield- With the Westgate line on a high viaduct that curves one way then the other and is only 2-tracks wide. as a result, building a station at this point would be scandalously expensive, not to mention how ugly the resulting building would've been had it been built in the 1960s to the architectural style of that era.

As things stand, the proposed rebuilding/expansion of Westgate will ease the capacity problems and will allow the 'five-towns loop' service to serve both stations rather than just Kirkgate, giving 2tph around the curve rather than the present one- A far better situation than what would be an expensive, cramped and inconvenient bi-level station with the busier (high-level) line on an awkward S-bend!

A Sunday service between the two stations would be ideal, but that's another story...

 

[tbtc]

I suppose it depends on how you balance the needs of locals (who want a service to the centre of the town/ city) and longer distance passengers (who want one simple place to connect at), but I'd add Newark to the list.

Probably impossible due to the ground conditions (nearby river etc), but a single station there (and a flyover) would make a big difference to the services.

 

[67018]

While I don't doubt it is somewhat useful I don't think it would be worth it given the cost and disruption it would cause.

Absolutely - not to mention the fact that Bicester North must be one of the most conveniently sited stations in the country. While (not unusually) it's outside the historic town, most of the new development has neatly been built around it so it's virtually dead in the centre. Moving it to an industrial estate just off the ring road would inconvenience an awful lot of people for the fairly marginal interchange benefits.

 

[YorkshireBear]

This would've been a ridiculous idea! The point where the lines cross is considerably further from what is now the main commercial centre of Wakefield- With the Westgate line on a high viaduct that curves one way then the other and is only 2-tracks wide. as a result, building a station at this point would be scandalously expensive, not to mention how ugly the resulting building would've been had it been built in the 1960s to the architectural style of that era.

As things stand, the proposed rebuilding/expansion of Westgate will ease the capacity problems and will allow the 'five-towns loop' service to serve both stations rather than just Kirkgate, giving 2tph around the curve rather than the present one- A far better situation than what would be an expensive, cramped and inconvenient bi-level station with the busier (high-level) line on an awkward S-bend!

A Sunday service between the two stations would be ideal, but that's another story...

What are these plans for westgate you speak of? i have never heard of them?

 

[Cletus]

I passed through Dorking Deepdene yesterday and it is very near Dorking (main).
I could see these two stations being moved and connected, there seems to be some room to do so. (although I'm sure cost would discount it!)