Budget hotels discussion

[takno]

Home owners offering B&B used to be a staple of the tourist industry. It was a good way of local homeowners supplementing their income by letting out spare rooms, and a cheap way of taking a holiday for those who couldn't afford a hotel. There used to be plenty of B&Bs in the seaside town where I now live, run by local people. Some often owning a second adjacent or nearby property to offer additional rooms. I see no reason why they should be regulated out of existence, just because they now advertise on Airbnb rather than postcards in shop windows.

The important thing is that they bring business to the town. Who wants to live in a dying town? The real issue is second home owners who only occupy their properties for a few weeks a year, and the rest of the time are empty. Not those properties and rooms that are let on a short term basis to visitors bringing money in.

I don't object to B&Bs or rooms being let in the owner's own house. The vast majority of AirBnB and Booking.com listings in many locations however are full flats, often in suburban areas. Not only could these have been perfectly easily let to longer-term residents, but they are often in the same block as permanent residents who have to deal with the constant churn and noise.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Given the rate booking.com have expanded their apartments, I'd be surprised if they aren't starting to see all the same issues. Mind you, they are starting to struggle on the hotels side, where they are now rarely as cheap as booking direct.

As somebody living in a city with a shortage of both hotels and flats for people to live in, I'd strongly like to see the entire short term rental market be regulated out of existence. I will quite happily watch short term letters struggle for hours with lock boxes or dodgy keys rather than help. Just bear in mind that the long-suffering neighbours aren't going to provide the friendly reception services you were too cheap to pay for.

I am absolutely with you here. And I know from your postings elsewhere that you and me both used to live in the same city and that you're still there. Now, going back to visit is a stressful and expensive experience on many levels and last month I actually bought a spare bed and bedding for an old neighbour as long-term. It was going to work out cheaper than wrestling with the ever-present accommodation problem when I return, on average about three or four times a year
And the Goodwill of local people has been taken for granted for far too long as well, I wish some people would bear this in mind. Be interesting to see how whales get on with their short-term let regulations as I know the ones in Scotland have had a mixed response. Depending on who you talk to. I personally don't feel they go far enough at regulating platforms like Airbnb and booking.com, but are harsh on those offering a more traditional bed and breakfast or guest house service
That said, and in the interests of fairness, at least the issue is on their radar which is more than can be said for the government in Westminster who simply acknowledged that there was an issue in some places but made no effort whatsoever to do anything about it, let's see if this changes now

 

[Belperpete]

But letting entire properties on short term lets and purchasing the properties just to let them out and not getting proper planning permission to use them as short-term rentals for more than 90 days needs more action to properly stop people breaking the rules.

That is only going to happen if people report it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jul 2024 ==

I don't object to B&Bs or rooms being let in the owner's own house. The vast majority of AirBnB and Booking.com listings in many locations however are full flats, often in suburban areas. Not only could these have been perfectly easily let to longer-term residents, but they are often in the same block as permanent residents who have to deal with the constant churn and noise.

You could equally well say that rooms and suites in hotels could be used to house residents, so why not ban them being let short term too?

I really don't understand the bias against short term lettings. They bring people to the area, and so generate business. Blindtraveller mentions the problems he is having finding accommodation - surely this indicates that there is insufficient short term accommodation there, not too much. Unfortunately most people wanting to stay there won't be able to take up his solution.

 

[jon0844]

Look up how towns and cities are ending up as empty ghost towns. Sure, tourists might hit local bars and restaurants, and perhaps taxis and metros do okay, but they don't support other local businesses which then close.

 

[Blindtraveler]

And it requires people to think outside the box a bit to support a local business. Far too many people won't give their business to the locally owned and run for several generations star taxis, but they will more likely use Uber and just look at how many people no matter where they go. Go hunting for the nearest outlet of McDonald's or KFC or Subway
I wonder if I should start a separate thread to discuss short-term apartment? Let's as we're veering wildly off topic from budget hotels here

 

[Belperpete]

Look up how towns and cities are ending up as empty ghost towns. Sure, tourists might hit local bars and restaurants, and perhaps taxis and metros do okay, but they don't support other local businesses which then close.

The ghost towns are due to second homes that spend most of the time empty, not short term lets that are generally well filled (if not, their owners would be running at a loss). I know that most local businesses where I live see a considerable up tick in business during the tourist season, and many probably wouldn't survive without that extra trade. I am struggling to think of many local businesses that don't benefit.

 

[jon0844]

The second home problem and Airbnb situation aren't exactly the same. Both can be damaging in their own ways.

 

[jon81uk]

You could equally well say that rooms and suites in hotels could be used to house residents, so why not ban them being let short term too?

I really don't understand the bias against short term lettings. They bring people to the area, and so generate business. Blindtraveller mentions the problems he is having finding accommodation - surely this indicates that there is insufficient short term accommodation there, not too much. Unfortunately most people wanting to stay there won't be able to take up his solution.

Because as a general rule hotels and buildings with proper short-term let apartments have gone through the correct planning permission and therefore the effect on the neighbourhood has been considered to some extent.

 

[nlogax]

Got three nights in a Premier Inn next week. Hopefully better than the one I stayed in last year which turned out to be a converted 1960s office block staring out at the elevated section of the M4.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Some of these office block conversions are actually really good and if the one that you're staying in is the one I'm thinking of then I've used it and didn't have a problem, soulless and about as bland as a McDonald's breakfast but efficient

 

[takno]

Some of these office block conversions are actually really good and if the one that you're staying in is the one I'm thinking of then I've used it and didn't have a problem, soulless and about as bland as a McDonald's breakfast but efficient

Big rooms, but they are often pretty depressing to look at, both inside and out. I quite like them as well, but then I very rarely spend much time looking at things other than my computer screen in hotel rooms.

 

[Mag_seven]

I'm wondering if given their prices lately and the addition of "Premier Plus" rooms that Premier Inn can no longer be regarded as a "Budget Hotel". They appear to me to be more "mid market" now.

 

[nlogax]

Big rooms, but they are often pretty depressing to look at, both inside and out. I quite like them as well, but then I very rarely spend much time looking at things other than my computer screen in hotel rooms.

Exactly that. I tried to spend as little time as possible in the building. The whole experience was pretty miserable.

 

[TheTallOne]

It’s the ones without air con that sometimes need to be avoided. I’ve been unlucky enough to be staying at one (premier inn) near Cardiff and one near Leicester on the hottest days of the year. Not fun.

 

[Kite159]

It’s the ones without air con that sometimes need to be avoided. I’ve been unlucky enough to be staying at one (premier inn) near Cardiff and one near Leicester on the hottest days of the year. Not fun.

Especially if it's ones where the windows have restricted opening.

Or the hotels where the windows open but alongside a busy road with night long traffic

 

[TheTallOne]

Especially if it's ones where the windows have restricted opening.

Or the hotels where the windows open but alongside a busy road with night long traffic

Yeah both of them were near busy roads, A road into Cardiff and a motorway for the other one. Motorway services walkable, so a cheaper breakfast than prem inn though!

 

[Tetchytyke]

I'm wondering if given their prices lately and the addition of "Premier Plus" rooms that Premier Inn can no longer be regarded as a "Budget Hotel". They appear to me to be more "mid market" now.

I think there's two tiers of budget now.

You have the real budget places, like Ibis Budget and Travelodge, and they're as depressing as you'd expect. And then you have the higher tier budget, Premier Inn and HI Express. I wouldn't say they were mid-market though. Hotel Indigo or Crowne Plaza is mid-market.

You're right about Premier Inn prices though. I've found HI Express to be slightly cheaper- and with a free breakfast- and Crowne Plaza to only be a bit more expensive.

 

[nlogax]

Premier Inn can still be a steal. My stay next week is two thirds of the price of a Hampton Inn for pretty much the same level of accommodation. The only difference is the lack of free breakfast.

 

[takno]

Premier Inn can still be a steal. My stay next week is two thirds of the price of a Hampton Inn for pretty much the same level of accommodation. The only difference is the lack of free breakfast

Are you booking the Hampton Inn direct? Doing that and having the relevant loyalty account often knocks a bunch off. Depending on what food I might get later in the day I'd rate breakfast as worth about a tenner and the slightly better service as worth a fiver.

Premier Inn could easily still be cheaper of course. Depends a lot on location.

 

[nlogax]

Are you booking the Hampton Inn direct? Doing that and having the relevant loyalty account often knocks a bunch off. Depending on what food I might get later in the day I'd rate breakfast as worth about a tenner and the slightly better service as worth a fiver.

Premier Inn could easily still be cheaper of course. Depends a lot on location.

For point-collecting purposes I always book directly through the Hilton site or app or via Amex GBT if it's a work stay. The Premier Inn seems to be considerably cheaper than the nearby Hampton. May be a luck of the website draw of course.

 

[WestCoast]

Premier Inn can still be a steal. My stay next week is two thirds of the price of a Hampton Inn for pretty much the same level of accommodation. The only difference is the lack of free breakfast.

Yes they remain very competitive in my experience too. I wonder if it’s a brand thing with people expecting to pay less. My work head office has a Moxy and a Premier Inn pretty much next door and I would argue the PI is more comfortable and always available for less. However, the Moxy bar is way more popular and feels like a place you might choose to have a drink in rather than a PI bar.

 

[takno]

Yes they remain very competitive in my experience too. I wonder if it’s a brand thing with people expecting to pay less. My work head office has a Moxy and a Premier Inn pretty much next door and I would argue the PI is more comfortable and always available for less. However, the Moxy bar is way more popular and feels like a place you might choose to have a drink in rather than a PI bar.

I like spending the day working in a Moxy, but I've never found one at a price point I'd pay to stay in it. I do prefer hotels with a lively lobby/bar, but given how rarely I actually use them I doubt I'd be willing to pay more than a tenner a night for that.

Different people have very different needs out of hotels though. Premier Inn doesn't to me have even the faintest hint of luxury, and I'm willing to pay a bit more sometimes just to feel like I'm being pampered slightly. Equally my parents always used to really value places with tea and coffee-making facilities, where I basically almost never use them. Closet space is completely irrelevant to to since I'm quite happy living out of a bag.

 

[317 forever]

Going back to 10+ years ago Premier Inn was almost always my first choice when taking short breaks in this country. If I couldn’t find a Premier Inn I would put up with a Travelodge as my second choice. Although fairly basic compared to more upmarket hotels they were relatively comfortable, you got a good breakfast and above all they were affordable. I suppose that’s why they were known as budget hotels.

Although still fairly basic, can they still be considered to be budget hotels when they are charging in excess of £200 a night in some popular locations. When going to London I used to regularly use the Hampstead Premier Inn near Belsize Park tube station. It was always a bit expensive but was less than staying in Central London. I recently looked at it and they were asking £870 for 4 nights and that’s not including breakfast. I know that hotel prices have risen considerably recently, but I will not pay anything much over £100 a night for a so called budget hotel when you can get rooms in much better quality hotels at comparable, or sometimes cheaper prices.

A couple of weeks ago I did stay in a Premier Inn for the first time for a few years. One thing I did notice was how few staff there were comparison to how they were when I used them in the past. Both the reception and restaurant at breakfast seemed to be operating with the absolute minimum of staff.

I think Premier Inn has had quite a few European staff, but have had some staff shortages following Brexit.

I have noticed an increase in English staff at Premier Inn in recent years, but maybe without all jobs previously held by European staff necessarily replaced.

 

[Blindtraveler]

PI still get an awful lot of stuff right? And for obvious, reasons are considered in many cases, The Benchmark to which others aspire, but I do think they've got a bit of an identity crisis at the moment as they have every control over what they charge in terms of rates at each location as they don't really use any of the major booking sites and instead direct traffic through their own primarily and so could if they wanted be less receptive to yield management and demand responsive pricing than say a best Western or intercontinental group property that's got rooms available not only on its own site but on the likes of booking.com or whatever. However, they continue to charge monstrous sums of money on a regular basis at many of their locations now and I can't honestly see how they can justify it.. meanwhile, I found on some of my more recent days that there are an increasing number of inconsistencies in terms of standard of maintenance and cleanliness etc

 

[1D54]

We have a couple of nights booked in a budget in Bergamo coming up and the hassle is unreal with photos needing to be uploaded with us and passports and city tax needing to be paid in advance, though i think this could be a thing the Italians do regardless of the price you are paying for accommodation. If we'd have realised this was coming we'd have gone elsewhere.

 

[Tetchytyke]

However, they continue to charge monstrous sums of money on a regular basis at many of their locations now and I can't honestly see how they can justify it

People are paying it, especially in big cities and especially on a Saturday night. Demand- and therefore prices- is very strong in London. It might be £870 for a Premier Inn for 4 nights but the Crowne Plaza at King’s Cross is often charging £300 a night now. Same with the Hilton at Angel, which always used to be fairly sensibly priced as one of the weaker Hiltons in London.

I still think Premier Inn is generally good value, but not always. It pays to shop around.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I think the post Covid trend is UK residents going on holiday more in the UK than before. So demand for UK accomodation is higher tan it used to be - this extends to holiday homes, canal boats and motor caravans (both to buy and rent).

 

[ChrisC]

People are paying it, especially in big cities and especially on a Saturday night. Demand- and therefore prices- is very strong in London. It might be £870 for a Premier Inn for 4 nights but the Crowne Plaza at King’s Cross is often charging £300 a night now. Same with the Hilton at Angel, which always used to be fairly sensibly priced as one of the weaker Hiltons in London.

I still think Premier Inn is generally good value, but not always. It pays to shop around.

That’s what happens when almost all of the hotel chains use dynamic pricing. People pay the high prices, especially in London with foreign tourists, and the prices will continue to rise to even higher levels. Chains such as Premier Inn are no longer charging budget hotel prices. If they can get even more money by upgrading rooms to Premier Plus, and these rooms prove to be popular, they will. I enjoy a few days in London, but in recent years these stays have mostly been during January or February which seem to be the lowest priced months.

Most of my hotel stays are for short breaks of between 3 and 7 nights. When deciding where to stay my first choice always used to be a Premier Inn within a short walk of a railway station. These days Premier Inn, because of their often high prices for what you get, it is often my last choice for if I can’t find anywhere else better. When considering large chains I now tend to look at IHG and Accor before I consider Premier Inn or Travelodge. Sometimes it is possible to get a room in somewhere like a Holiday Inn, Crowne Plaza, Novotel etc at comparable prices to the so called budget hotels.

Independent hotels are often the best value at popular times because they have set prices for each night and don’t operate a dynamic pricing system. I think you just have to be careful to read lots of Tripadvisor and Booking.com reviews before selecting an independent hotel but some of them are good quality in comparison to the budget chains. Best Western do have some appallingly dire hotels but many of their hotels are very good and quite competitively priced. I’ve always done plenty of research and have stayed in some exceptionally good Best Western Hotels and their reward scheme is quite good too for getting reduced prices, room upgrades and points towards free nights.

Returning to the subject of Premier Inn staffing. Many Premier Inn hotels I stayed at in the past used to have a number of older experienced staff members who had obviously worked there for a number of years. There was regularly one of these older staff members supervising breakfast and they were usually very friendly and helpful, often real characters who enjoyed their job, and they knew guests who stayed there regularly. I know many of these were perhaps approaching retirement age, but since the Covid lockdowns they no longer seem to be there. Premier Inn appear now to have far less staff and they are mostly young and less experienced.

 

[Tetchytyke]

These days Premier Inn, because of their often high prices for what you get, it is often my last choice for if I can’t find anywhere else better. When considering large chains I now tend to look at IHG and Accor before I consider Premier Inn or Travelodge. Sometimes it is possible to get a room in somewhere like a Holiday Inn, Crowne Plaza, Novotel etc at comparable prices to the so called budget hotels.

I can safely say that I've not see Holiday Inn or Crowne Plaza rooms at Premier Inn rates, and I also tend to gravitate towards IHG. I got suckered in by one of their platinum status offers and have kept the status; I'm easily bought by a free drink at the bar, a slightly nicer room, and a few extra points. You will often see HI Express at Premier Inn rates, but then that figures as they are both in the same segment.

London is just extremely expensive across the board. But it's fair to say that demand- and price- tails off pretty quickly once you start getting into the outer zones. The Premier Inn at Croydon is two minutes' walk from East Croydon station and it is usually good value; you can still get it this Saturday for £99.

 

[Howardh]

London is just extremely expensive across the board. But it's fair to say that demand- and price- tails off pretty quickly once you start getting into the outer zones. The Premier Inn at Croydon is two minutes' walk from East Croydon station and it is usually good value; you can still get it this Saturday for £99.

London for me is Travelodge at Walthamstow, a B+B near Stratford International, or somewhere in the docklands; as you say well away from the centre, but accessible by tube or train. half the fun of London is travelling around the tube anyway! There looks a nice-looking and cheap hotel near Hemel Hempstead station which I need to try this winter.

But for London (and arriving from the North) Milton Keynes is my fave; Travelodge have two hotels near the station, and Premier Inn one, and using their own sites can get decent deals, three nights in PI in August for under £50/night and it's close to all the shops so breakfast on-site isn't necessary. There's also an Easyhotel but never tried those.