British Airways

[Mojo]

I know with my Silver Status I will be able to get the best seats free of Charge and have access to Lounges and Fast Track Security.

FWIW, even with Gold or Silver status you still can’t reserve the front row in Premium Economy (unless you think another row is the best seats) as they are reserved for babies due to the bassinets. I believe you should be able to select them from 72 hours beforehand if they are still unoccupied, but it’s at your own risk if someone with a baby turns up later.

 

[Butts]

FWIW, even with Gold or Silver status you still can’t reserve the front row in Premium Economy (unless you think another row is the best seats) as they are reserved for babies due to the bassinets. I believe you should be able to select them from 72 hours beforehand if they are still unoccupied, but it’s at your own risk if someone with a baby turns up later.

Yes that's what I did when we went to Florida had the Middle 4 to ourselves at the Front. Main reason I don't want anyone to recline on me.

Neither of us reclined on those behind us even though they themselves had reclined on the people behind them.

No one has answered the $64000 question is the Club worth the extra £1500 each ?

 

[Failed Unit]

Yes that's what I did when we went to Florida had the Middle 4 to ourselves at the Front. Main reason I don't want anyone to recline on me.

Neither of us reclined on those behind us even though they themselves had reclined on the people behind them.

No one has answered the $64000 question is the Club worth the extra £1500 each ?

I would say yes if you plan to sleep on the return, I would also say if you are spending that much and the fare is about the same - use Virgin.

 

[jfollows]

No one has answered the $64000 question is the Club worth the extra £1500 each ?

It's totally subjective, so nobody can answer that question on your behalf!

I didn't pay this much when I used it because I had a round-the-world ticket of some sort, which is usually a lot cheaper. I'm not sure I'd pay this much for the BA service alone, but that's me.

 

[Butts]

I would say yes if you plan to sleep on the return, I would also say if you are spending that much and the fare is about the same - use Virgin.

An expensive sleep ?

Was also looking into going from Birmingham where my son lives KLM via Amsterdam/Lufthansa vis Frankfurt or Air France via Paris.

The great advantage of BA is that I can book all the flights for the multi city adventure and the Hotels on one portal BA Holidays.

Minimal Deposit and all the other perks if we fly Premium Economy.

Aer Lingus from Dublin with the great advantage of pre-clearance made BA look cheap but they have no Premium Economy - strange that a bit of an outlier ?

 

[jfollows]

I paid about £6,500 each for business class Manchester-Helsinki-Hong Kong (-Osaka) Tokyo-Los Angeles-London-Manchester. The Hong Kong-Osaka leg was a low-cost airline, the rest business class. At your rates it would have been a lot more I think. At this price BA was “OK” but the rest were better.

 

[Failed Unit]

An expensive sleep ?

Was also looking into going from Birmingham where my son lives KLM via Amsterdam/Lufthansa vis Frankfurt or Air France via Paris.

The great advantage of BA is that I can book all the flights for the multi city adventure and the Hotels on one portal BA Holidays.

Minimal Deposit and all the other perks if we fly Premium Economy.

Aer Lingus from Dublin with the great advantage of pre-clearance made BA look cheap but they have no Premium Economy - strange that a bit of an outlier ?

I have a few colleagues in Northern Ireland. They can often do Dublin - US in business cheaper then we (Rest of UK) can do it in PE. so maybe worth taking a look.

 

[TravelDream]

No one has answered the $64000 question is the Club worth the extra £1500 each ?

Nobody can answer than but you.

I've done long haul in business, in economy and in economy with awful connecting flights.

It's definitely quite a different experience in business, but each person needs to make their own judgment on whether it's worth it.

My next trip to Asia is the latter option - pretty poor connecting flights. Not looking forward to it at all, but it was dirt cheap.

 

[camflyer]

The old “upstairs on a 747” was better in my opinion. I think as much for the feeling of the cabin, the 777 is just one part of a long sausage.

Best flight of my life was being upgraded at the gate to from Premium Economy to Upstair Club on a 747 to Hong Kong. Felt more like flying on a small private plane and I didn't want to get off.

 

[Watershed]

Agree with this. Once the TPs all change people will probably buy upgrades or fly Club europe less often, and the cabins will be smaller.

Indeed, that's what I decided to do with a post-April hop over the Irish Sea that I just booked. During the current sale it would have cost just £40 each way to upgrade to business. But given that I already get all the ground benefits by virtue of status, and that there is no longer a real Tier Point benefit in upgrading, I decided against it. BA's loss I suppose...

 

[Butts]

Indeed, that's what I decided to do with a post-April hop over the Irish Sea that I just booked. During the current sale it would have cost just £40 each way to upgrade to business. But given that I already get all the ground benefits by virtue of status, and that there is no longer a real Tier Point benefit in upgrading, I decided against it. BA's loss I suppose...

Hope you got an Exit Seat ?

 

[Watershed]

Hope you got an Exit Seat ?

Yes, so just as much legroom (if not arguably more) than row 1.

 

[camflyer]

Yes, so just as much legroom (if not arguably more) than row 1.

Personally, I prefer row 2 or 3 to the front row in Euro Economy. I have relatively short legs so the legroom doesn't bother me too much but in Row 1 you usually have very limited overhead storage as it is taken up by crew equipment so you bags end up behind you and you can be more affected by people queuing for the toilets.

 

[John R]

Has anyone ever flown Business Class to Los Angeles on BA ?

Going on a trip next year Los Angeles/San Francisco/Las Vegas with my Son.

When we went to Orlando a couple of years ago being at the front of Premium Economy on a 777 had a good view of the next cabin up.

To me it seemed a bit cramped a bit like sardines in close proximity to each other.

If you are both over 6 feet like we are is it worth the extra three grand compared to being in the front (bulkhead) of PE ?

As others have said it’s a personal choice. I’ve flown both WTP and CW frequently recently (and other airlines equivalents) and my most recent WTP experience both ways overnight was pretty rubbish, and I wished I had paid the extra. Other airlines PE do seem better imo.

So if you can afford it I would go for it. Although the outbound flight will be in the day, it’s helpful to try and catch a few hours rest to help with the 8 hour time difference.

 

[Bald Rick]

As others have said it’s a personal choice. I’ve flown both WTP and CW frequently recently (and other airlines equivalents) and my most recent WTP experience both ways overnight was pretty rubbish, and I wished I had paid the extra. Other airlines PE do seem better imo.

So if you can afford it I would go for it. Although the outbound flight will be in the day, it’s helpful to try and catch a few hours rest to help with the 8 hour time difference.

And there is the option of PE out (or even plain economy), and Club World / Upper Class back. Saves £250+ APD, plus less need for a bed on the day flight out.

 

[skyhigh]

Finding the boarding comments wryly amusing. The last time* I flew BA they so comprehensively mucked up everything from Check in to the gate that I was just about last person there and thus the boarding groups were completely irrelevant!

*Last time in every sense.

Glad it's not just me. Last year we spent a significant chunk on a package holiday booked through BA to the USA, including paying extra for a decent seat selection. On the return flight we arrived at the airport to find our flight was significantly overbooked and we were bumped off onto the next one - which then left 5 hours late...

...and to add insult to injury, when we arrived back at Heathrow there was no sign of our checked luggage!!

I understand why airlines overbook but deciding to bump someone returning from a package holiday seems a bizarre choice.

(PS - as compensation they attempted to offer us a refund of £88, the amount we paid to select seats on the return flight. Needless to say, I did not accept that offer...)

 

[Butts]

And there is the option of PE out (or even plain economy), and Club World / Upper Class back. Saves £250+ APD, plus less need for a bed on the day flight out.

That's not a bad idea which in theory would save about £1500 and give us something to look forward to on the way back.

Not sure if it is technically possible on the BA Holidays matrix ?

It is indeed possible on the BA Matrix - on my "dummy run" for November as next January's trips are not yet bookable it only came out as £572 more for Business Class return in total for the two of us. That was flying from Las Vegas back to LA and then to London. That would be PE out to San Francisco and Business back for our multi centre trip. Business out on this itinerary was £2700 more.

Can't wait for later in the month when I will be able to book it for real.

 

[nlogax]

Not sure if it is technically possible on the BA Holidays matrix ?

This is something that can be best sorted out on the phone with BAH. They also have a reputation to be easier to deal with than standard BA.

 

[Failed Unit]

For those that didn't read it, this is really why BA have done this...

‘How I got a British Airways Gold Card for less than £3,000’

Telegraph Money meets the man who can get you a fast ticket to the high life

www.telegraph.co.uk

Brassington wanted to know if it was still possible to game the system. His target was a British Airways Gold card....

...Brassington wanted to do it for less than £3,000. His plan was to attempt a “tier point run”...

...But his initial research found it was not possible to game the system to nearly the same scale as Belkin was able to do in the early 2000s.

That was until he came across a way to double his points.

“If you booked a BA holiday, which means you book the flight and five nights of accommodation or car hire, the airline would double your points...

 

[Butts]

This is something that can be best sorted out on the phone with BAH. They also have a reputation to be easier to deal with than standard BA.

See my edit I have cracked it.

Regarding the BA Status changes no one seems to be sure if there is going to be a soft landing ie Gold down to Silver post April 2025.

If this is the case and I had known these changes were coming I would have got back up to Gold before the implementation.

I thought Silver (the sweet spot) would be easily achievable with trips like my 5 Days in Bucharest starting on Friday that nets me 480 Tier points for just north of £600.

As it stands I will requalify for Silver before April this year and enjoy another year till being kicked out next April - good while it lasted !!

 

[Royston Vasey]

For those that didn't read it, this is really why BA have done this...

‘How I got a British Airways Gold Card for less than £3,000’

Telegraph Money meets the man who can get you a fast ticket to the high life

www.telegraph.co.uk

I watched his video when he released it and rewatched it this week and although there will be very few true tier points runners like him, it's not a good look that people can clearly take the mickey out of the airlines scheme. I'm sure they'll have paid attention, as will the consultants being paid for "fresh ideas". The old scheme was generous, and had loopholes, but the double tier points on BAH was the biggest contributor to lounge crowding. Not one scruffy unemployed man filming in his bedroom, gaming the system for a literally a few pounds of YouTube revenue.

He released a very angry reaction video this week complete with childish snooty "toffee-nosed" accent when reading out the email from BA. Of course he's angry, he has lost his one KSP, he's not a very impressive vlogger or flight reviewer.

I'm actually pretty angry at him. I blame people like him.

In the middle of this there are people like me who are booking economy long hauls for work, so without Saturday stays, paying in excess of £1200 or £1300 for economy returns to the US for example, spending a lot more and getting a lot less. If it wasn't for some careful planning, some W travel and some partner routings, I wouldn't be silver. I think I'm probably about as likely to requalify silver as I was before but I'd have to spend more of my travel "all-in" on BA and less on CX, JL and QR and I don't think I want to do that right now.

 

[Tetchytyke]

See my edit I have cracked it.

Was going to say that if you book it as a flight then on the last screen add the hotel it still tracks as a BA Holiday but it lets you mix the cabins.

 

[yorkie]

I watched his video when he released it and rewatched it this week and although there will be very few true tier points runners like him, it's not a good look that people can clearly take the mickey out of the airlines scheme. I'm sure they'll have paid attention, as will the consultants being paid for "fresh ideas". The old scheme was generous, and had loopholes, but the double tier points on BAH was the biggest contributor to lounge crowding. Not one scruffy unemployed man filming in his bedroom, gaming the system for a literally a few pounds of YouTube revenue.

He released a very angry reaction video this week complete with childish snooty "toffee-nosed" accent when reading out the email from BA. Of course he's angry, he has lost his one KSP, he's not a very impressive vlogger or flight reviewer.

I'm actually pretty angry at him. I blame people like him.

In the middle of this there are people like me who booking economy long hauls for work, so without Saturday stays, paying in excess of £1200 or £1300 for economy returns to the US, spending a lot more and getting a lot less. If it wasn't for some careful planning, some W travel and some partner routings, I wouldn't be silver. I think I'm probably about as likely to requalify silver as I was before but I'd have to spend more of my travel "all-in" on BA and less on CX, JL and QR and I don't think I want to that right now.

I see the article was produced only days before the scheme was altered; this is surely no coincidence.

Taunting BA like this and encouraging people to game the system was only going to end with one result; if he can't see that, then he isn't particularly intelligent.

That said, surely BA should have removed the double tier points offer, given that was the main source of the problems.

Other things they could have done would be to avoid the loophole fares to places like Bulgaria (various means that could have been done, such as reducing sizes of business cabins, increasing business class fares, reducing tier points etc).

 

[Tetchytyke]

The old scheme was generous, and had loopholes, but the double tier points on BAH was the biggest contributor to lounge crowding.

BA Holidays wasn’t the problem. The double tier points offer was because BA wanted more people to book as holidays and you’ll note that under the new scheme you get tier points on your entire spend, not just the flights.

The commissions from booking package holidays can be pretty good and there’s a reason why EasyJet are pushing their own EasyJet Holidays product so hard- to the extent that easyJet Holidays customers get first dibs on seats.

The airlines have known about tier point runners and skipleggers for years.

 

[Royston Vasey]

BA Holidays wasn’t the problem. The double tier points offer was because BA wanted more people to book as holidays and you’ll note that under the new scheme you get tier points on your entire spend, not just the flights.

The commissions from booking package holidays can be pretty good and there’s a reason why EasyJet are pushing their own EasyJet Holidays product so hard- to the extent that easyJet Holidays customers get first dibs on seats.

The airlines have known about tier point runners and skipleggers for years.

Lounge crowding isn't the main reason for this anyway, I am sure. It's revenue. As a shareholder as well as a frequent flyer, though, I'm very concerned that they have totally misjudged the elasticity of the market. Few of us fly BA simply because we love BA, and they should appreciate that BAEC stalwarts like me do elect to fly them with the FFP as a main or the main decider.

BA Silver was one of the easiest mid status elite levels of any major airline, we all knew that, and the more pragmatic commenters knew spend-based was coming, but the haste and the very high bar is, I think, misjudged and leaves a bad taste.

I'm sure it was based on some very detailed modelling as to a target revenue (collectively and per member), a target number of members and a growth in profitability. But behind all models are assumptions and if they assume I'm going to spend even more of my £10,000 to £12,000 a year with them, they are wrong. If I do want to requalify I'm going to have to put almost all of my travel spend to BA, and less to their superior partners, or cheaper competitors.

I'm not sure I want to or even am able to slog all those hard miles for an increasingly poor hard product and inconsistent/unremarkable soft product, and a shrinking route network. They don't even fly to mainland China right now, which will be two of my trips this year.
 

 

[camflyer]

BA Holidays wasn’t the problem. The double tier points offer was because BA wanted more people to book as holidays and you’ll note that under the new scheme you get tier points on your entire spend, not just the flights.

The commissions from booking package holidays can be pretty good and there’s a reason why EasyJet are pushing their own EasyJet Holidays product so hard- to the extent that easyJet Holidays customers get first dibs on seats.

The airlines have known about tier point runners and skipleggers for years.

Indeed. For some people the TP on hotels (and car hire) will be worth more than the old offer of double TP on the whole booking, especially if you book higher end hotels. A Club World flight to the Caribbean with 2 weeks in a 5* hotel is going to get you some way to Gold.

For me though, I've always found the hotel selection through BAH to be fairly limited and prefer apartments for longer stays. When I do book a hotel I prefer to do it directly to get more choice and the benefits of any loyalty programmes they have. Book a Hilton or Marriott through BAH and you won't get any points from them.

 

[yorkie]

Lounge crowding isn't the main reason for this anyway, I am sure. It's revenue. As a shareholder as well as a frequent flyer, though, I'm very concerned that they have totally misjudged the elasticity of the market. Few of us fly BA simply because we love BA, and they should appreciate that BAEC stalwarts like me do elect to fly them with the FFP as a main or the main decider...

Absolutely this; I will go back to using Ryanair, Easyjet etc from Manchester Airport (or Stansted if necessary), instead of going out of my way to use BA from Heathrow. If BA have a lot of potential new customers willing to spend a lot of money to travel with them, then they have made the right decision to ditch many of their existing customers. But if not, then they will regret it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jan 2025 ==

The airlines have known about tier point runners and skipleggers for years.

True, but I suspect someone at BA was enraged at the article.

Also, not everyone at the company may be fully aware.

For example, I suspect many train companies have staff who are well aware of anomalies and loopholes for cheaper rail fares... but when people start publishing them, that's when things can change, if it is brought to attention to a particular manager. I know that's not the same thing, but the principle is similar.

 

[Royston Vasey]

True, but I suspect someone at BA was enraged at the article.

Also, not everyone at the company may be fully aware.

For example, I suspect many train companies have staff who are well aware of anomalies and loopholes for cheaper rail fares... but when people start publishing them, that's when things can change, if it is brought to attention to a particular manager. I know that's not the same thing, but the principle is similar.

The video itself is a year old, so I'm sure it was aired internally long before the article picked it up. There are a few people doing this sort of content on YouTube; I enjoy Matt's Planet who does similar tier point analysis and optimisation, but less smug and has a lot more about him and his channel. His reaction video is also a lot more pragmatic than My Grey Gap Year, who seems to have decided making gold cheaply and publicly was his one goal after his redundancy!

 

[Failed Unit]

Absolutely this; I will go back to using Ryanair, Easyjet etc from Manchester Airport (or Stansted if necessary), instead of going out of my way to use BA from Heathrow. If BA have a lot of potential new customers willing to spend a lot of money to travel with them, then they have made the right decision to ditch many of their existing customers. But if not, then they will regret it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jan 2025 ==


True, but I suspect someone at BA was enraged at the article.

Also, not everyone at the company may be fully aware.

For example, I suspect many train companies have staff who are well aware of anomalies and loopholes for cheaper rail fares... but when people start publishing them, that's when things can change, if it is brought to attention to a particular manager. I know that's not the same thing, but the principle is similar.

The whole situation is interesting - I didn't realize that BA holidays was causing so many issues. I know someone who is retired, so using that as his main holiday and treating himself to club on a long haul flight, didn't take many tier points to push him over. The double points on the holiday still exist, but now they are divided equally between him and his wife. He used to push himself into Silver so his wife shared the benefits. I am sure many did this kind of thing, which in reality I don't think hurt BA too badly.

We all have the chance to "points hop" to get the gold and with the "soft landing" (if it still happens) that £3000 investment may be worth it. When you look at the cost of buying fast track, bags and seats over 2 years for some it could be a worthwhile investment (before you think about the lounge). BA do a few things that irritate when you are taking your family away. For example you can't mix the fare boundaries. If the card holder buys a bag the entire party must do so. That just irritates passengers as they often make 2 booking to avoid the higher fare (but can't risk sitting together) or everyone just takes a handbag and increase pressure on the overhead lockers and security scanners. Everyone loses out just because of simple change in IT that the budget airlines already have sorted (I think all of them just add total numbers of bags, if you want 1 for a family of 4 that is fine)

Not sure if they will see a massive push to gold now before March. I don't think it is worthwhile for me personally, others may thing that £3000 (probably less if you already have status) is a worthwhile investment if the soft landing stays for 2 years of fast-track, seat selection, lounges and baggage allowance.

 

[nlogax]

Regarding the BA Status changes no one seems to be sure if there is going to be a soft landing ie Gold down to Silver post April 2025.

See my post 458 upthread. It's still all we have to go on but right now the situation appears to be soft landings will occur in April 2026. Of course a lot can change in that time..