Britain's bus coverage hits 28-year low

[overthewater]

The trials First did showed a 17% improvement and returning about 10 mpg. Where you getting those figures from?

Someone from First - for route 38 somehow. However there is alot of straight runs where it doesn't need to stop, maybe that helped?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Someone from First - for route 38 somehow. However there is alot of straight runs where it doesn't need to stop, maybe that helped?

I am dubious about their claims. Returning that sort of figure would be more than phenomenal.

 

[Jordan Adam]

MPG really depends on the exact set up of the bus though and where it's operating. Keep in mind Streetlites come with both Cummins and Daimler engines, different lengths and on top of that many have had their Gearboxes remapped due to issues with jerky gear changes. The Cummins powered StreetliteMax (11.5M) examples here get around 9MPG.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

This seems to be another "sign of the times" Before de-reg it was said that bus drives wages were "only" 70% of all operational costs, and if you got rid of "non productive staff", you would think that would increase above 70%. So, its surprising to see that Drivers wages are now less than 50%. I'm also surprised that fuel is cited as an increased cost. Overall, fuel for motorists has risen pretty much i line with Inflation, and indeed in recent years has risen slower than inflation, so why is it an increasing burden on bus operators. Similarly admin costs (see above) wasn't De-reg supposed to get rid of wasteful admin and admin staff. And if de-reg didn't, what about computerisation?

The accepted percentage that I am aware of for drivers wages before dereg was 42% As for fuel, others have already stated the effects of cleaning up emissions.. I would also add that BSOG provides a much reduced percentage rebate than Fuel Duty Rebate ever did.

De-reg DID get rid of layers of "wasteful admin staff", but unfortunately 2 things happened... 1. Companies found out pdq that many of those "wasteful" staff had done very useful work in keeping everything under control, in particular one grade that was particularly hard hit was Inspector grade... once companies made their inspectors redundant they very quickly found that they had no control over the quality of their services and nor did they have anyone making sure that they received all they were due from the farebox... of course they then had to quickly employ a new grade of staff which they usually called service controllers {of course on a lower wage than the inspectors had been paid}

the second thing that happened was that more and more regulation was heaped upon the industry... it is a fallacy to believe that deregulation swept away all regulation, in fact it really was mis-named. The bus industry was NOT deregulated.. it was taken out of one regulatory framework and put into another totally different framework. And of course over the last 30 yrs or so regulation has been heaped upon the industry along with many others... health and safety, working time directives, having to prove that employees are legally entitled to work... and every new piece of legislation needs someone to make sure that the company is compliant!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

MPG really depends on the exact set up of the bus though and where it's operating. Keep in mind Streetlites come with both Cummins and Daimler engines, different lengths and on top of that many have had their Gearboxes remapped due to issues with jerky gear changes. The Cummins powered StreetliteMax (11.5M) examples here get around 9MPG.

It does indeed vary with a number of factors from power plant/drivetrain spec, operating territory, ULW etc. The Streetlight is a frugal machine from what I've been told.

However, achieving 14-15 mpg seems rather unlikely. Typically, something like a B7RLE will be around 6-7 mpg, a Dart (depending on spec) more like 8-9 mpg. A Euro 6 Streetlite being 50% better than a Dart? Hitting 9-10 seems more in the ball park.

 

[Dentonian]

It does indeed vary with a number of factors from power plant/drivetrain spec, operating territory, ULW etc. The Streetlight is a frugal machine from what I've been told.

However, achieving 14-15 mpg seems rather unlikely. Typically, something like a B7RLE will be around 6-7 mpg, a Dart (depending on spec) more like 8-9 mpg. A Euro 6 Streetlite being 50% better than a Dart? Hitting 9-10 seems more in the ball park.

What about 'deckers? eg. How does fuel consumption of a Euro6 Enviro400 compare with a Euro3 E400, never mind with an earlier Trident or even Olympian?

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

What about 'deckers? eg. How does fuel consumption of a Euro6 Enviro400 compare with a Euro3 E400, never mind with an earlier Trident or even Olympian?

this article from 2014:

http://www.busandcoachbuyer.com/operators-bus/

claimed a 12% improvement, though serious weight reductions across the vehicle make a contribution to this. Sounds like Airbus or Boeing!

A quick look around the web suggests that Formula 1 style KERS (Kinetic Energy Recovery System) may be the next significant development in reducing fuel consumption. And though I have long since stopped being interested much in bus technology per se when I hear hybrid buses in action they sound as if they may be using something similar already.

As for conventionally fueled vehicles the need to use low-sulfur diesel and associated additives helped to increase fuel costs for all such vehicles.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Apologies, my timeline is haywire. Nevertheless, the reasons for closures were varied, with many of he 1986 closures indeed due to overheads and close proximity of neighbouring depots. Also, before dereg, city area depots were much less profitable than district depots, due to a high proportion of peak only services, higher levels of congestion and presumably higher land values. De-reg changed, with peaks levelled out (M-F shopping hours were virtually the only period of the week that didn't see service reductions overnight on 26/10/86). During GMB days - and periodically before that - I had legitimate access to the performance of both depots and individual services. From that, I can assure you that of he depots left after de-reg, Rochdale and Altrincham were constantly in the bottom two. The reasons for Swinton and Tameside's closures were very different, as both were good performers - usually about 5th & 4th respectively. Swinton depot was actually in line for modernisation, but when all the investigations were done, it was found that there had been a long running drainage problem with fuel oil seeping into the earth below. Obviously, steps were taken to immediately address any environmental dangers, but it proved financial impossible to permanently address it and so the HSE said it was no longer fit to be used as a vehicle depot. Its now, at least partly, a small housing estate. Tameside's closure was a little more mysterious. Despite its modern day problems, Tameside was historically "good bus country" albeit some services better than others. However, it is widely believed that it was closed because of a gigantic "personality clash" between the Director General and the local TGWU leadership (this was before Unite). Economies of scale are obviously always going to be relevant, but it indicative that Tameside's work had to be split between Oldham, Hyde Road, Stockport and Glossop. This lead to a lot of wasteful dead running. I was also talking to a recently retired driver latterly at the current Ashton depot (but previously, Glossop, Whitelands Road and "Joint Board"*) before that and he was saying that before Glossop depot closed, the then MD, Mark Threapleton came up to tell them straight that the reason it was closing was not its small size, but simply because of constant "24/7" congestion between the M67 junction near Hattersley and Tintwisle. He said that if they could find an affordable piece of land and get permission to open a pcv OC, he would move Glossop ops, buses, staff the lot immediately. However, they couldn't so it had to close.

A rather sad footnote to this particular line of discussion: the forthcoming closure of First's Bury depot will mean all 4 of the depots built new during the GMT years (1974-1986) will have closed.

 

[Jordan Adam]

A quick look around the web suggests that Formula 1 style KERS (Kinetic Energy Recovery System) may be the next significant development in reducing fuel consumption. And though I have long since stopped being interested much in bus technology per se when I hear hybrid buses in action they sound as if they may be using something similar already.

A number of bus types (Diesel, Hybrid & Electric) already use or are offered with systems like that. Sadly it's a bit hit or miss, in the Streetlites it's one of the causes for the awful brakes.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

A number of bus types (Diesel, Hybrid & Electric) already use or are offered with systems like that. Sadly it's a bit hit or miss, in the Streetlites it's one of the causes for the awful brakes.

Thanks for that. I guess it's not unlike the Formula 1 experience: KERS was somewhat problematic during its early use.

 

[Dentonian]

A rather sad footnote to this particular line of discussion: the forthcoming closure of First's Bury depot will mean all 4 of the depots built new during the GMT years (1974-1986) will have closed.

Actually, Bury depot closed in April 2017!

 

[Dentonian]

this article from 2014:

http://www.busandcoachbuyer.com/operators-bus/

Ah, maybe that's why our fares are going up three times inflation - which EE insist is 4.1%, btw - they have taken our Euro6 MMCs off us and replaced some workings with c.9 year old Euro4s (lol)

 

[overthewater]

http://www.passengertransport.co.uk/2018/03/go-ahead-cites-impact-of-changing-behaviour/

Go-Ahead cites impact of changing behaviour

Go Ahead-Group has highlighted the impact of changing travel patterns across the UK on transport companies’ finances in its half-year results.

Despite patronage falls at the group’s regional bus division and Southeastern rail franchise, half-year operating profit rose 19% to £86.9m on revenue up 6.6% to £1.8bn. However, the increase was largely due to asset sales from the London Midland rail franchise to incoming operator Abellio and early settlement of a contractual payment from the Department for Transport to Govia Thameslink Railway.

At the regional bus division, operating profit fell 3.2% from £25.3m to £24.5m as like for like passenger numbers fell 1.2%. At the Southeastern rail franchise operating profit fell by £6.4m as patronage fell 0.9%.

In both cases, Go-Ahead chief executive David Brown said the businesses had been affected by changes in lifestyle and working patterns.

There are socio-economic changes taking place across the whole of passenger transport in the UK

“There are socio-economic changes taking place across the whole of passenger transport in the UK,” he said. “Some of that is people working from home, some of that is people Skyping, some of that is the nature of the work people do that is going to be more part time… There is a whole range of issues and on buses, across every operator, some discretionary journeys will not now take place.”

Actions to protect the profitability of the group’s core business during the six months included reducing regional bus mileage by 2.8%.

Group investigates Mobility as a Service

Go-Ahead Group is investigating new business areas that reflect people’s future travel expectations. Presenting the group’s half-year financial results this week, chief executive David Brown revealed that his colleagues had started “investigating a variety of true Mobility as a Service offers in the cities we operate in” which would “provide sustainable answers to mobility”. It has also bought a 12% stake in Frankfurt electric car sharing partnership Mobileeee as “a low cost entry into understanding journeys between different modes”.

Meanwhile, finance director Patrick Butcher outlined further details of the group’s international expansion plans following its breakthrough into the German rail and Singapore bus markets. He told City analysts that Go-Ahead is currently bidding for the first of six rail franchises that the Norwegian government plans to let, intends to bid for four German rail contracts per year, and that the Singapore government plans to let a further two bus contracts per year over the next seven years. In addition, Go-Ahead is assessing contract opportunities in Sydney.

Butcher said the target is to win one in four contract bids in order to achieve the previously-announced ambition of making 15-20% of operating profit from overseas businesses within five years (PT168).