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Brighton Main Line Shut?

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73110

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Hi. Just heard there will be no FCC services after 1800 tonight and all day tomorrow because of the weather. (also no loop service at all too)

Not heard anything about Southern yet.

Anyone know any more?

Thanks.
 
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jon0844

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I think tomorrow they're running 8-car all-station trains every 30 minutes and nothing else.

On the GN side, they're running the snow timetable again - as they did yesterday. Not sure why they attempted a normal service today (although it generally ran okay I think). My train home was 1 minute late at WGC, which was pretty damn amazing - it's usually later in good weather!
 

craigy68

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... Southern's 'slow' BTN/VIC/BTN service is running ... all be it with short notice delays and cancellations ... also a BTN/HHE shuttle
 

paul1609

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Southerns service for tomorrow much the same as today:

West Sussex Rail Users Association said:
...

BOGNOR REGIS/PORTSMOUTH HARBOUR/SOUTHAMPTON to LONDON

0547 Portsmouth Harbour to Victoria – cancelled between Portsmouth Harbour and Three Bridges
0548 Southampton to London Bridge – cancelled between Southampton and Barnham
0611 Bognor to Victoria – will run as normal except will not call at Christs Hospital
0641 Bognor to Victoria – will run as normal except will not call at Christs Hospital
0646 Portsmouth Harbour to Victoria – cancelled
0657 Bognor to London Bridge – will run as normal except will not call at Christs Hospital
0548 Southampton to London Bridge – cancelled between Southampton and Barnham
0706 Southampton to Victoria – cancelled
0755 Bognor to Victoria – will run as normal except will not call at Christs Hospital
0810, 0912 hourly until 1712 Portsmouth Harbour to Victoria – cancelled
0826, 0930 hourly until 1730 Bognor to Victoria – cancelled
0910, 1010, 1113 hourly until 1713 Southampton to Victoria – cancelled
1811 and 1912 Southampton to Victoria – cancelled between Southampton and Barnham
1833 Bognor to Victoria via Hove – cancelled

LONDON to BOGNOR REGIS/PORTSMOUTH HARBOUR/SOUTHAMPTON

0602 Victoria to Bognor – cancelled between Redhill and Bognor
0717 Victoria to Southampton – will run as normal to Barnham then will be diverted to Bognor Regis
0802 hourly until 2002 Victoria to Portsmouth Harbour/Bognor – will run complete to Bognor and will not split at Horsham
0832 hourly until 1932 Victoria to Southampton/Bognor - cancelled

HORSHAM/REDHILL - LONDON SERVICE

The main changes for the services to and from Horsham are:

No splitting or attaching of services and a reduction in services south of Horsham to one per hour rather than two per hour.

0740 Horsham to Victoria – cancelled

Services between Horsham and London via Dorking will not call at Warnham, Ockley or Holmwood in either direction until 0900.

LITTLEHAMPTON to LONDON

0632 Littlehampton to Victoria – cancelled
0845 hourly until 1745 Littlehampton to Victoria – will call additionally at Three Bridges and will not attach at Haywards Heath
0915 Littlehampton to Victoria – cancelled
1015 hourly until 1715 Littlehampton to Victoria – cancelled between Littlehampton and Haywards Heath
1815, 1915, 2015 Littlehampton to Victoria – cancelled

LONDON to LITTLEHAMPTON

0817 hourly until 1717 Victoria to Littlehampton – will call additionally at Three Bridges and will run complete to Littlehampton and will not split at Haywards Heath
0847 hourly until 1547 Victoria to Littlehampton – cancelled between Haywards Heath and Littlehampton
1747 Victoria to Littlehampton – cancelled
1817 Victoria to Littlehampton – will call additionally at Gatwick Airport and Three Bridges and will not call at Balcombe
1847 Victoria to Littlehampton – cancelled between Haywards Heath and Littlehampton
1917 and 2017 Victoria to Littlehampton – will call additionally at Three Bridges and will run complete to Littlehampton and will not split at Haywards Heath
1947 and 2047 Victoria to Littlehampton – cancelled
2147 Victoria to Littlehampton – cancelled between Haywards Heath and Littlehampton
2247 Victoria to Worthing – cancelled between Haywards Heath and Worthing

WEST COASTWAY SERVICES FROM AND TO BRIGHTON

All Brighton to West Worthing and return services are cancelled but additional stops will be made in the xx03 Brighton to Portsmouth and return and xx33 Brighton to Southampton and return services to cover this
 

mackenzie_blu

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"You are encouraged to leave London by 7pm. We cannot guarantee the late evening and last trains will run."


What a complete shower.

We considering the offical advice is don't travel, seems reasonable as more freezing weather as it gets colder is only going to make thing worse. FCC have decided enough is enough and write off one evening to save the service the following day. In the long run it will benefit more people.

And don't forget Southeastern's we're not getting to London before 0900.
 

Minstral25

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"You are encouraged to leave London by 7pm. We cannot guarantee the late evening and last trains will run."


What a complete shower.


I think 7pm is too early especially when they is unlikely to suit working hours that some of us have but the principle is right - earlier shutdown and well publicised. I hope Southern doesn't join in or I'll be spending the night of some cold platform.

Must say was very impressed by Southern today - good service (yes some cancelled and some a little late but heck it's exceptionally cold and snowy), useful and clear announcements by station staff as well - at least on my little bit of their network :)
 

jon0844

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FCC should have been aiming to run at least an hourly service if they could, as some people are going to be stranded completely.
 

mackenzie_blu

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FCC should have been aiming to run at least an hourly service if they could, as some people are going to be stranded completely.

FCC were honest and basically said we don't know if we can get you home. Thats more important that running a service and it breaks down and you end up walking down the track because your completely stranded inbetween stations. What you don't see here is the fact your train will leave London but FCC can't be sure it will get you to your station, now thats indangering lives if they just go oh sod it run anything. And that is a far great danger which FCC and other TOC's were faced with.

As a matter of fact all the last trains ran to time but it didn't die off till 2100 so people still aren't checking stuff out before travelling.

As for stranded, well if your told NOT to travel, you still do and then don't pay attension to whats going on, then what do you expect? The area around Balcombe is completely closed for the last few days and til futher notice. Your train service is actually the only thing able to make it through. These are the conditions being dealt with.
 

jon0844

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I know all this, but you can't say at 10/11am that you're not running trains later on.

Well, obviously you can, but someone should have said so sooner - considering the low temperatures would have made it quite obvious to the people-that-know within FCC that it would all go tits up!

I bet you and others all knew what ice would do, while management were probably trying to promise the best they could - until they eventually conceded, but only after annoying commuters.

I thought the early curtailment of services was logistical for today, which is fair enough, hence me saying that they could have tried to at least use some stock to run an hourly service to shuttle stragglers behind.

In this day of information-at-your-fingertips from web to Twitter, it's easy to forget that not everyone could get access to this information and not everyone would have known when FCC said 'don't travel - last train 7pm'.

Nevertheless, I don't blame FCC for this unfortunate situation - even now they've cancelled everything into King's Cross and Moorgate (171 separate service updates!!). I am not even going to attempt to get in to work, as I don't fancy being stranded in a freezing office over the weekend!
 
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I have sympathy with some of what Mr Morris and MackenzieBlu are saying. I'm currently working at home in Flitwick. The problem is that FCC seem to be saddled with the most unreliable fleet of trains and its main depot is at the far north of its main route.

I can understand its shutting down of the Wimbledon/Sutton services as there are alternative means of getting to those parts of the Metropolis. What I can't understand is why the service has to be as poor as two trains per hour calling at all stations.

Yesterday's attempt to run a service was pretty farcical and the staff on the ground were trying to make the most of a situation where they weren't getting much more information than the passengers. Full marks to the revenue protection official at Luton Town yesterday morning who seemed to be sorting out the replacement bus service single-handedly.

I'm a bit concerned that FCC seems to be willing to accept a situation of running a skeleton service just so that it can run trains through to Brighton. As there are alternative services from London to Brighton provided by other operators, why doesn't it concentrate on running a more regular and reliable service from London to stations north thereof as we have no alternative provider. What is the contingency if as the weather forecasters say, this freeze is set in for the next ten days?
 

jon0844

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They were running a pretty poor service before the ice and snow, as a consequence of the drivers not working overtime.

Presumably the emergency timetables allow for ALL drivers to work without overtime? If so, it may actually help FCC by them not having to cancel trains and pay hefty fines.
 

thelem

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I'm a bit concerned that FCC seems to be willing to accept a situation of running a skeleton service just so that it can run trains through to Brighton. As there are alternative services from London to Brighton provided by other operators, why doesn't it concentrate on running a more regular and reliable service from London to stations north thereof as we have no alternative provider.

What would be the point of not running these services? Are FCC still short of stock / drivers even with the reduced timetable? Where you do think the FCC service can be strengthened?

I can't see it every being sensible to scrap the St Pancras - East Croydon trains, as they are heavily used and it would take a lot longer to go via Victoria. You might be able to terminate some Brighton trains short at East Croydon or Gatwick, but lots of the other trains run fast, so are no use if you're heading to a smaller station.
 

Ivo

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Why not simply run two an hour from Bedford to Gatwick, calling at all stations to St Albans, non-stop to St Pancras, then all through to East Croydon, and then non-stop to Gatwick; and then two an hour from St Albans (or possibly Luton), calling at all stations to East Croydon (and then non-stop to Gatwick if feasible)? Can't the dumbos in charge of FCC not see any sense at all?
 

djw1981

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WEll NR might have something to say regarding pathing other trains....
 

mackenzie_blu

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I know all this, but you can't say at 10/11am that you're not running trains later on.

Well, obviously you can, but someone should have said so sooner - considering the low temperatures would have made it quite obvious to the people-that-know within FCC that it would all go tits up!

I bet you and others all knew what ice would do, while management were probably trying to promise the best they could - until they eventually conceded, but only after annoying commuters.

I thought the early curtailment of services was logistical for today, which is fair enough, hence me saying that they could have tried to at least use some stock to run an hourly service to shuttle stragglers behind.

In this day of information-at-your-fingertips from web to Twitter, it's easy to forget that not everyone could get access to this information and not everyone would have known when FCC said 'don't travel - last train 7pm'.

Nevertheless, I don't blame FCC for this unfortunate situation - even now they've cancelled everything into King's Cross and Moorgate (171 separate service updates!!). I am not even going to attempt to get in to work, as I don't fancy being stranded in a freezing office over the weekend!

To be fair they did put up on 'TV screens' on thursday and friday all day not to travel so people would have been aware of even if they didn't have access as they all go through the stations.

I think the decision was taken earlier than that to save the service from then on rather than it get worse day by day. The reason for no shuttles was they said nothing after 1900 as they weren't not sure they'd be able run a service. I also think part of the reason was to show people this is a serious situation, after all if a company tells you not to use the service and you still use it, what does that say about the user?

As for the level of cancellations and the PPM figures for peak, Ive seen the figures for thursday and I can say even I wasn't aware it was that bad. And it was bad. To be honest thursday morning we guessed a few services would be cancelled early on but what I saw was worse than even our worse case guessing.

I have sympathy with some of what Mr Morris and MackenzieBlu are saying. I'm currently working at home in Flitwick. The problem is that FCC seem to be saddled with the most unreliable fleet of trains and its main depot is at the far north of its main route.

I can understand its shutting down of the Wimbledon/Sutton services as there are alternative means of getting to those parts of the Metropolis. What I can't understand is why the service has to be as poor as two trains per hour calling at all stations.

Yesterday's attempt to run a service was pretty farcical and the staff on the ground were trying to make the most of a situation where they weren't getting much more information than the passengers. Full marks to the revenue protection official at Luton Town yesterday morning who seemed to be sorting out the replacement bus service single-handedly.

I'm a bit concerned that FCC seems to be willing to accept a situation of running a skeleton service just so that it can run trains through to Brighton. As there are alternative services from London to Brighton provided by other operators, why doesn't it concentrate on running a more regular and reliable service from London to stations north thereof as we have no alternative provider. What is the contingency if as the weather forecasters say, this freeze is set in for the next ten days?

As for the RPI, he may have been arranging extra bus services. Ive done the same during times of disruption to help my passengers get where they are going during major problems. But its always good to know the customer facing staff are being seen to work hard as we really do and try to make things easy as we can for you guys.

The 319 were ok until we hit KO0 and they had to cover for the 377's. Basically we had to run them into the ground with heavily milage and now we are paying the price for this. When KO0 started the dates for the full introduction of all 23 was by late summer. This only extended more and more as time went on and now all 23 units won't be around until Febuary now at the earilest.

Why not simply run two an hour from Bedford to Gatwick, calling at all stations to St Albans, non-stop to St Pancras, then all through to East Croydon, and then non-stop to Gatwick; and then two an hour from St Albans (or possibly Luton), calling at all stations to East Croydon (and then non-stop to Gatwick if feasible)? Can't the dumbos in charge of FCC not see any sense at all?

Other then pathing issues and how to get the units back running on the right tracks you also have to work out driver rest periods and change overs. Once past Blackfriars the next FCC depot is Brighton. It makes more sense to take the train to where drivers are than half way and the possible issues of getting drivers to start in unfamilar places after having to use another TOC service to get them there. And its that point that could cause the biggest problem. How do you drivers into the right place and what happens of multiple drivers get caught up in a failed unit, whose to blame etc etc.

As for dumbos in charge of FCC, er they don't make service decisions, thats the control's decision. And name calling rarely helps especially as you don't have the full facts why things have been done the way they have.
 
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Given the pathetic service that FCC intends to offer, I suspect even with its driver shortage, it has more than enough divers to run the planned service. Its down to FCC to plan a service using its available resources. There are facilities at Gatwick & east Croydon (toilet, snacks, drinks etc) so why not establish a temporary signing on/off point at these stations? Presumably the unions would not be happy because it would be messing up their cosy little arrangements and the drivers might have to travel "on the cushions" to take up their next turn, so what, we've been inconvenienced by the drivers for the past two months, now they should be working their ar$es off to get the trains running.

FCC was content last Thursday to run a split service with northbound trains running from St Pancras to Bedford. Letting trains run through the core onto the ramshackle third rail network is simply asking for trouble. Notwork Rail has demonstrated it cannot provide a robust infrastructure at present south of Gatwick, so my suggestion remains that priority needs to be given to north of St Pancras passengers who have no alternative means of getting to/from work. This should not be a half-hourly all-stations service either.
 

westcoaster

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Given the pathetic service that FCC intends to offer, I suspect even with its driver shortage, it has more than enough divers to run the planned service. Its down to FCC to plan a service using its available resources. There are facilities at Gatwick & east Croydon (toilet, snacks, drinks etc) so why not establish a temporary signing on/off point at these stations? Presumably the unions would not be happy because it would be messing up their cosy little arrangements and the drivers might have to travel "on the cushions" to take up their next turn, so what, we've been inconvenienced by the drivers for the past two months, now they should be working their ar$es off to get the trains running.

on the first point about, its down to fcc to plan a service, i can tell you they wanted to run more than a half hourly all station service, but NR would not let them, the reason given was that NR wanted as many points at junctions to stay in the same position, this would stop all the point failures due to frozen points, so there would then be no benefit from running a semi-fast service, which would then follow an all station service.

for your infomation we do abit off traveling on the cushions already, you just cant set up a pnb point at east croydon or gatwick airport its just not that simple, first of all there needs to be a room with kitchen facillities, so we can cook our lunch, their also needs to be toilets. the nearest pnb points to East croydon are selhurst depot/purley, but we are not allowed to use purley so it would mean getting on a southern service from east croydon to selhurt, then walking to the depot, have you pnb then do the same in reverse this would take in excess of an hour. At gatwick airport the nearest pnb point is three bridges or redhill but again we do not use redhill, so a round trip from gatwick to three bridges wouls also be nearly an hour.

FCC was content last Thursday to run a split service with northbound trains running from St Pancras to Bedford. Letting trains run through the core onto the ramshackle third rail network is simply asking for trouble. Notwork Rail has demonstrated it cannot provide a robust infrastructure at present south of Gatwick, so my suggestion remains that priority needs to be given to north of St Pancras passengers who have no alternative means of getting to/from work. This should not be a half-hourly all-stations service either.

As i predicted in the other disruption thread that the service would end up with an all stations bedford - brighton service every half hour, or a weekend style split service, the benefit off an all stations service is that ALL stations get a half hourly service, why should someone at say elstree get less of a service during disruption than say someone from St Albans.

What can NR do stop snow from falling, of cause they can not, but there are other options open to them, as was the case they had units and class 73's running round as ghost trains trying there best to keep the job going and tracks clear but the snow was just to heavy, to give an example i followed a 12 car 377 by a few minutes but in that time the track and juice rail were already covered in a layer of snow and begining to freeze as the line light was flickering, now it there had not been a train over that line for say 15 minutes then in that time the juice rail will have been frozen.

Most passengers north of St pancras do have other options the only stations that do not are elstree, radlett, harpenden, harlington, flitwick the stations south of mill hill have london underground and london buses, passengers st albans could use london midland on the abbey line or fcc out of kings cross to hatfield then use the bus that links the station, and stations north of luton can use there tickets on EMT services to luton (ticket easment is still in place)then change to fcc serfvices.
 
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on the first point about, its down to fcc to plan a service, i can tell you they wanted to run more than a half hourly all station service, but NR would not let them, the reason given was that NR wanted as many points at junctions to stay in the same position, this would stop all the point failures due to frozen points, so there would then be no benefit from running a semi-fast service, which would then follow an all station service.

for your infomation we do abit off traveling on the cushions already, you just cant set up a pnb point at east croydon or gatwick airport its just not that simple, first of all there needs to be a room with kitchen facillities, so we can cook our lunch, their also needs to be toilets. the nearest pnb points to East croydon are selhurst depot/purley, but we are not allowed to use purley so it would mean getting on a southern service from east croydon to selhurt, then walking to the depot, have you pnb then do the same in reverse this would take in excess of an hour. At gatwick airport the nearest pnb point is three bridges or redhill but again we do not use redhill, so a round trip from gatwick to three bridges wouls also be nearly an hour.



As i predicted in the other disruption thread that the service would end up with an all stations bedford - brighton service every half hour, or a weekend style split service, the benefit off an all stations service is that ALL stations get a half hourly service, why should someone at say elstree get less of a service during disruption than say someone from St Albans.

What can NR do stop snow from falling, of cause they can not, but there are other options open to them, as was the case they had units and class 73's running round as ghost trains trying there best to keep the job going and tracks clear but the snow was just to heavy, to give an example i followed a 12 car 377 by a few minutes but in that time the track and juice rail were already covered in a layer of snow and begining to freeze as the line light was flickering, now it there had not been a train over that line for say 15 minutes then in that time the juice rail will have been frozen.

Most passengers north of St pancras do have other options the only stations that do not are elstree, radlett, harpenden, harlington, flitwick the stations south of mill hill have london underground and london buses, passengers st albans could use london midland on the abbey line or fcc out of kings cross to hatfield then use the bus that links the station, and stations north of luton can use there tickets on EMT services to luton (ticket easment is still in place)then change to fcc serfvices.

So FCC should run a service that only calls at Elstree, Radlett, St Albans, Leagrave, Harlington, Flitwick & Bedford. If they weren't calling at all stations, they could run more than two trains per hour. Glad you agree that the stations south of Elstree are superfluous to requirements. Hive them off to London Overground and let Boris deal with them. It never fails to amaze me that in the evening peak hours people still think they can bimble onto the platform at West Hampstead and expect to get a seat on a northbound service. The calling pattern for ALL FCC TL services north of St Pancras should be Elstree, Radlett, St Albans then all stations to Bedford. As you know, only FCC services call at my station. I have an annual season so occasionally I do resort to EMT from St Pancras High Level as far as Luton, but their services are not frequent and are designed not to connect with FCC services in the peak hours.

As for your suggestion that a signing on point needs to have a kitchen and special toilet facilities, why can't the drivers pack sandwiches and use the same toilets the passengers have to use? Or do drivers exist purely on a diet of lobster thermador and warm baguettes? I agree that personal needs breaks are vital to ensuring the safe operation of the railway, but I'm sure if someone spoke nicely to BAA at Gatwick a heated room with jacuzzi and billiards table could be provided. Similarly at East Croydon, there must be a secluded room available where the drivers can consult the form in the Racing Post and do the Times crossword in peace.
 

jon0844

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I think you have a strange idea about how a driver lives, but having read the assumption that a lot of people have alternative forms of transport, there must be some people that actually need to go from a station other than St Pancras to St Albans, Luton or Bedford.

Surely there are people who commute just one or two stations along in either direction, who need an all-station service. You can't cut these stations out in bad weather for the sake of those going further.

I would have thought that in this bad weather, people are going to accept longer journey times and simply leave earlier - and then earlier still in case of breakdowns and other incidents.
 

royaloak

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today I will mostly be at home decorating
As for your suggestion that a signing on point needs to have a kitchen and special toilet facilities, why can't the drivers pack sandwiches and use the same toilets the passengers have to use? Or do drivers exist purely on a diet of lobster thermador and warm baguettes? I agree that personal needs breaks are vital to ensuring the safe operation of the railway, but I'm sure if someone spoke nicely to BAA at Gatwick a heated room with jacuzzi and billiards table could be provided. Similarly at East Croydon, there must be a secluded room available where the drivers can consult the form in the Racing Post and do the Times crossword in peace.

So you think it is okay to have your break with people moaning at you continuosly, as for your jacuzzi quip, I will keep my thoughts on such an infantile, childish comment to myself.
Your PNB is supposed to be a break and there are laws about what has to be provided and if a driver doesn't get a proper break and messes up things can get very nasty, but why should you care with your blinkered, self serving, simplistic idea of how you THINK things are done, while us who KNOW how things NEED to be done sit back and laugh at the suggestions being put forward by people that really don't have a clue.
 

ralphchadkirk

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Good post RoyalOak.

Signing on points need to have (By LAW) certian things, and you can be in a lot of trouble if you don't have them.

They should be private for staff to relax in. How would you feel if you had no place to make a coffee in the office?

You cannot just "make" a signing on point, just the amount of notice boards and paper documents, equipment to pick up required makes the whole thing impossible.

But, The Box Photter, maybe you should just go back to your dreamland.
 
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I think I may have touched a raw nerve amongst the drivers on here.

I'd like to live in a dreamland where the train I pay through the nose to use arrives on time and gets me to my destination on time.

I'm not well versed in the law that pertains to driver's requirements and I wasn't intending to cause offence, I was merely suggesting a way of improving the service to the passengers.

I wasn't suggesting some kind of "holding pen" where drivers would have to be exposed to the ferocity of that most dangerous of animals, the Commuter, merely that during times of stress, there should be a degree of flexibility.

When the issue surrounding working rest days and overtime blew up I was largely in support of the drivers. After two months of the "emergency" timetable and no sign of any improvement, what sympathy I had has all but evaporated. Perhaps a representative of the drivers would like to explain when the normal timetable on FCC will be reinstated.

The issue of working rostered hours was put forward as not being industrial action, I say if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it probably isn't a goose.

On the issue of bad weather, there has been no significant snow for three days now and yet FCC is still happy to provide a pathetic service. Let's see how good the Radlett, Elstree and Mill Hill passengers are at train surfing tomorrow morning because they sure won't be able to get inside the trains!

I have heard that Notwork Rail refused to allow anything but an all stations service on Thurs & Fri so that points could remain unmoved, thus allowing EMT to run its trains without disruption. Who's would have made this decision, considering that FCC fast trains run as class 1 services, the same as EMT services? Why is it always the FCC passengers who get the ****ty end of the stick when it comes to allocating track space?
 

73110

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I think I may have touched a raw nerve amongst the drivers on here.

I don't think so! Surely you meant you HOPED to touch a nerve......

Lack of drivers comments here suggest your pathetic comments are just being laughed at. :roll:

Next........
 
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