Brief Encounter - digitally enhanced

[Crisso]

This classic Film was very recently re-shown on BBC Television/iPlayer, in a seemingly new cleaned up ‘BFI’ edition, which made the period detail, especially the railway Scenes, much clearer.

A separate, this time, sound query - whilst the major cast members are waiting for their respective trains in the platform Buffet, there are bursts of bells (presumably sent or repeated from the signal box?), from which the aforesaid cast passengers/buffet and railway staff are able to identify individual trains, even including non-stopping services. I have an enthusiasts knowledge of Signal Box official bell codes and, I couldn’t relate them to those used in the Film. Does anyone know of a separate bell/aural code listing between Signal Box and Platform Staff? or, was it something fictitious simply devised for the purpose of the storyline?

 

[Gloster]

This classic Film was very recently re-shown on BBC Television/iPlayer, in a seemingly new cleaned up ‘BFI’ edition, which made the period detail, especially the railway Scenes, much clearer.

A separate, this time, sound query - whilst the major cast members are waiting for their respective trains in the platform Buffet, there are bursts of bells (presumably sent or repeated from the signal box?), from which the aforesaid cast passengers/buffet and railway staff are able to identify individual trains, even including non-stopping services. I have an enthusiasts knowledge of Signal Box official bell codes and, I couldn’t relate them to those used in the Film. Does anyone know of a separate bell/aural code listing between Signal Box and Platform Staff? or, was it something fictitious simply devised for the purpose of the storyline?

Bells were often used before the advent of tannoys and radios to indicate certain messages: mostly they would be sent by the signal box to the station or yard, but some would go the other way. A signal box might send a code meaning ‘Clear shunting movement from the running line’ if there was a train due and the yard staff would send ‘Shunting movement clear of line’ when they had done so. The simplest ones would be to advise the platform that an Up/Down/Branch/etc. train was approaching.

The codes used were not the same as the bell codes used between boxes and would be local to each station, although a number of similar stations in a row might have the same codes for simplicity. Even in the 1980s Largin used to have to ring a code to Bodmin Road to advise them when a train was approaching…and didn’t we get it from them if we forgot.

Regular passengers would get to know the codes and what they meant. Useful to know whether you have time to drink your tea or must tip it down.

 

[John Webb]

In the preserved St Albans South box there is a plunger which rang a bell on the main station building. (Doorbell style, not single-stroke rings) and when a train was approaching a platform to stop there, the signalman would ring the platform number the train was coming into so the staff would be prepared.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

A bell sounding to announce the imminent arrival of a train at the relevant platform was very common , but not with any indication of the train type like a signal box. I think this is an invention for the film - the interior of the refreshment room at 'Milford Junc.' was a studio set at Denham. Director David Lean, a noted rail enthisiast, got carried away I think!

As an aside, the famous clock temporarily had cardboard dials and hands fitted to fix the time according to the script and avoid continuity errors with retakes etc! There are a few bloopers, however, for at one point a finger board for 'Hellifield, Leeds & Bradford' can be seen. Milford Junc.was supposed to be in Kent somewhere. The atmospheric shot in the opening sequence of an express racing through was thought to be Watford Junc. for a long time, but it has been established as Carnforth.

 

[Crisso]

Thanks for the interesting and educational replies to my original post. My memory was jogged about hearing a ‘door bell’ type ring on a platform, in my formative years, to advise the platform staff of an imminent arrival.

On further reflection, agree with ‘Sir Felix Pole’ that, David Lean may have exaggerated the bell rings on the Denham Buffet film set, to add emphasis, etc., on each passengers imminent separate departure - particularly for the main characters.

 

[railpigeon]

There are a few bloopers,

A tea cup, in the cafe and within the first few minutes, says ‘LMS’ on the side.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

A tea cup, in the cafe and within the first few minutes, says ‘LMS’ on the side.

Why's that one a blooper?

 

[DelW]

Why's that one a blooper?

Post #4 says that the location was meant to be in Kent, a little off-piste for the LMS

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Post #4 says that the location was meant to be in Kent, a little off-piste for the LMS

Is there any authoritative source for the film, or the mid 1930s stage play on which it is based (= "Still Life" by Noel Coward), being set in Kent? Home Counties certainly, but, having said that, the precise location of 'Milford' does seem deliberately vague.

 

[DelW]

Is there any authoritative source for the film, or the mid 1930s stage play on which it is based (= "Still Life" by Noel Coward), being set in Kent? Home Counties certainly, but, having said that, the precise location of 'Milford' does seem deliberately vague.

No idea I'm afraid, maybe @Sir Felix Pole can help?

 

[Bread & cheese]

Trevor Howard travels from Churley, Celia Johnson travels from Ketchworth, they meet at Milford Junction. There are similarly named places on the Reading to Redhill line: Earley, Betchworth and Guildford.

 

[Harpo]

The North Woolwich branch had (open) ‘circuit phones’ between all stations and each station had a bell code rung by the caller to tell them to pick up. It was a bit of a chat room at times.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Trevor Howard travels from Churley, Celia Johnson travels from Ketchworth, they meet at Milford Junction. There are similarly named places on the Reading to Redhill line: Earley, Betchworth and Guildford.

Possibly co-incidence, but you might just be on to something there! Not seen that suggested before.

A tea cup, in the cafe and within the first few minutes, says ‘LMS’ on the side.

Don't several of the trains home that the Celia Johnson character catches at the fictional "Milford Junction" (during the course of the film) also have 'LMS' signage on the sides of the carriages? The film was necessarily recorded at wartime Carnforth after all!

 

[simonw]

A bell sounding to announce the imminent arrival of a train at the relevant platform was very common , but not with any indication of the train type like a signal box. I think this is an invention for the film - the interior of the refreshment room at 'Milford Junc.' was a studio set at Denham. Director David Lean, a noted rail enthisiast, got carried away I think!

As an aside, the famous clock temporarily had cardboard dials and hands fitted to fix the time according to the script and avoid continuity errors with retakes etc! There are a few bloopers, however, for at one point a finger board for 'Hellifield, Leeds & Bradford' can be seen. Milford Junc.was supposed to be in Kent somewhere. The atmospheric shot in the opening sequence of an express racing through was thought to be Watford Junc. for a long time, but it has been established as Carnforth.

Given the rest of the outdoor railway scenes are carnforth, why would it be thought the express was at Watford?

 

[Rail Ranger]

You probably know that Brief Encounter was filmed at Carnforth to avoid the threat from V2 missiles.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Given the rest of the outdoor railway scenes are carnforth, why would it be thought the express was at Watford?

Long standing assumption it was filmed at Watford Junction , clearly a wrong one !.

Careful watchers can see the fast non stoppers through Carnforth show the crews leaning right out , this was because earlier filming saw the crews rightly slowing down when coming across bright filming lights ,so a message was passed down the line to advise what was going on and to keep speeds up for the stunning shots.

Stanley Holloway dressed in full LMS uniform with rightly lapel badges , the sublime Celia Johnson enjoyed the experience , even enjoying brief warm ups on the footplate in between takes.es. Noel Coward indulged himself by doing the train announcements.

One of my favourite films ever , we have in the past paid our respects to Celia by placing flowers on her grave in the Thames Valley villiage where she lived , on her birthday. There were always other freshly placed ones there.

 

[Gloster]

The North Woolwich branch had (open) ‘circuit phones’ between all stations and each station had a bell code rung by the caller to tell them to pick up. It was a bit of a chat room at times.

Circuit ‘phones were a different thing to platform bells. The circuit might just run around a large station, but could run for twenty or more miles along a route connecting signal boxes and a few other locations, such as station supervisors offices, shunters rooms and the like. Each location had a code and when A wanted to speak to B it picked up the handset and rang the appropriate code. The intended recipient would pick up their handset and talk; everybody else would hear the code but ignore it as it wasn’t theirs (unless they wanted to know what was going on as the line was open to all). There would be a code for all for things like time checks.

Although some bells might be audible to passengers, such as ones that could be fitted outside a station supervisors office, normally they were not going to be heard by passengers and those that were were just another inexplicable railway sound to them. It was a simple and relatively cheap way of connecting up a large number of different establishments. There were also box to box ‘phones: a similar type of ‘phone between only two signal boxes; this only required a plain single ring and meant it was quite clear who you were speaking to.

As there could be a number of different circuits running through a larger box, the S&T always tried to get them arranged so each box was always the same ringing code, but it wasn’t always possible. Curiously, all the boxes I was based at had the same code of five straight.

 

[BrianW]

Long standing assumption it was filmed at Watford Junction , clearly a wrong one !.

Careful watchers can see the fast non stoppers through Carnforth show the crews leaning right out , this was because earlier filming saw the crews rightly slowing down when coming across bright filming lights ,so a message was passed down the line to advise what was going on and to keep speeds up for the stunning shots.

Stanley Holloway dressed in full LMS uniform with rightly lapel badges , the sublime Celia Johnson enjoyed the experience , even enjoying brief warm ups on the footplate in between takes.es. Noel Coward indulged himself by doing the train announcements.

One of my favourite films ever , we have in the past paid our respects to Celia by placing flowers on her grave in the Thames Valley villiage where she lived , on her birthday. There were always other freshly placed ones there.

Forumites and fans may find this website of interest: https://movie-locations.com/movies/b/Brief-Encounter.php

BW

 

[Gloster]

A skim through the script of Still Life, the original play, does not give any specific details of where it is set. However, it is clearly home counties as a couple of references make clear that it is easy to slip up to London. There are also a couple of references to a boat train that goes through non-stop, which does strongly suggest it is Kent. But it could be the Newhaven or Harwich boat train.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

There are also a couple of references to a boat train that goes through non-stop, which does strongly suggest it is Kent. But it could be the Newhaven or Harwich boat train.

Indeed. It could of course have been a boat train from London Waterloo to/from Southampton Docks. It still would pass through various places in the Home Counties, just nowhere near Kent.

 

[Gloster]

Indeed. It could of course have been a boat train from London Waterloo to/from Southampton Docks. It still would pass through various places in the Home Counties, just nowhere near Kent.

Ah, but if it was a Southampton Boat Train (and referring to the film) that would be on a four-track line; double-track didn’t start until Battledown and the next junction would be Winchester, which was probably a bit far from London for a quick trip in those days. And it can’t be on the Windsor lines as that would involve a diversion and so not a familiar train; the same applies to Guildford and the Portsmouth Direct.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

It could have been the WCMLS - say Berkhamstead , with fast boat trains to Holyhead , Heysham etc. Canal and mention of grammar school fits.

Certainly the 2-6-4 tanks and standard LMS suburban stock fits that assumpton.

 

[Gloster]

It could have been the WCMLS - say Berkhamstead , with fast boat trains to Holyhead , Heysham etc. Canal and mention of grammar school fits.

Certainly the 2-6-4 tanks and standard LMS suburban stock fits that assumpton.

Indeed it could be, but there is a sense that the Boat Train is something special. On the WCML it would be one of quite a number of expresses, including several boat trains, and wouldn’t have that extra cachet. Even on the SWML or GWML it would still be one of number of expresses, but here there is a feeling that it is ‘The Train’.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Indeed it could be, but there is a sense that the Boat Train is something special. On the WCML it would be one of quite a number of expresses, including several boat trains, and wouldn’t have that extra cachet. Even on the SWML or GWML it would still be one of number of expresses, but here there is a feeling that it is ‘The Train’.

In 1945 England , a boat train to Eire would indeed be something special , as a boat train to the Continent was for more practical reasons to do with war purposes and not available for "normal" passengers and requiring all sorts of permits and permissions.

Enjoying this thread , were it Watford Junction , which we know it is not , could Alec have hypothetically travelled in from say Bushey , and Celia from Berko ? (ignoring Alec's possibilites on the DC and Bakerloo)

Watford had all the comforts of Kardomah type resturaunt(s) , several cinemas and ample shopping. (including Boots !) , a hospital - not so sure about barrel organs.

 

[BrianW]

A skim through the script of Still Life, the original play, does not give any specific details of where it is set. However, it is clearly home counties as a couple of references make clear that it is easy to slip up to London. There are also a couple of references to a boat train that goes through non-stop, which does strongly suggest it is Kent. But it could be the Newhaven or Harwich boat train.

Various pages in Wikipedia suggest the following:

- Noel Coward lived for many years at Goldenhurst Farm, Aldington, in Kent
- He is said to have written Still Life (on which David Lean's film Brief Encounter was based) there.
- Ashford is relatively nearby- a significant railway junction

I found this related link interesting: https://www.ballooonmeinherr.org/home/a-propos-de-milford-junction

It comments on a number of issues relating rail to the context of the time, from which I observe:
- the presence of a 'Refreshment Room'
- attention to the timetable
- class, in the cinema and on the train
- the boat train
- staff 'intervention' with troublesome squadies
Smut in the eye (of the beholder?)

Thank you Chrisso for starting this thread.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Various pages in Wikipedia suggest the following:

- Noel Coward lived for many years at Goldenhurst Farm, Aldington, in Kent
- He is said to have written Still Life (on which David Lean's film Brief Encounter was based) there.
- Ashford is relatively nearby- a significant railway junction

I found this related link interesting: https://www.ballooonmeinherr.org/home/a-propos-de-milford-junction

It comments on a number of issues relating rail to the context of the time, from which I observe:
- the presence of a 'Refreshment Room'
- attention to the timetable
- class, in the cinema and on the train
- the boat train
- staff 'intervention' with troublesome squadies
Smut in the eye (of the beholder?)

Thank you Chrisso for starting this thread.

Spendid link attached - thanks very much !

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

The film although shot in wartime is set in peacetime (as was the play) - it was amusing to read in BrianW's link above that because of rationing the 'refreshment room' (aka studio set) could not be fully stocked and some items had to be made up as props. I never understood the line when Alec asks for sugar for his tea - 'it's in the spoon' - how did that work? The street scenes for 'Milford' were shot in Beaconsfield (handy for Denham); the boating lake is Regent's Park.

Ashford is reckoned to be the station Noel Coward had in mind for 'Milford Jcn.' with its regular flow of non-stop boat trains (in peacetime) which Laura would have witnessed and be familiar with on her Thursday afternoon jaunts - wonder what station he had in mind for Ketchworth?

 

[simonw]

The film although shot in wartime is set in peacetime (as was the play) - it was amusing to read in BrianW's link above that because of rationing the 'refreshment room' (aka studio set) could not be fully stocked and some items had to be made up as props. I never understood the line when Alec asks for sugar for his tea - 'it's in the spoon' - how did that work? The street scenes for 'Milford' were shot in Beaconsfield (handy for Denham); the boating lake is Regent's Park.

Ashford is reckoned to be the station Noel Coward had in mind for 'Milford Jcn.' with its regular flow of non-stop boat trains (in peacetime) which Laura would have witnessed and be familiar with on her Thursday afternoon jaunts - wonder what station he had in mind for Ketchworth?

I have always assumed its sugar lump(s) resting in the spoon.

Just rewatched it as it's on iPlayer atm and they provide sugar cubes in the refreshment room.

 

[midland1]

You probably know that Brief Encounter was filmed at Carnforth to avoid the threat from V2 missiles.

I did not know V2 missiles could see lights

 

[Western Lord]

Doctor Harvey (Trevor Howard) travels to the hospital in Milford as it offers him the opportunity to pursue his specialty due to the coal mines. The only coal mines in the home counties were in Kent.