Bridge Strikes

[Paul180]

Is there a link available to that post / thread?

i have found this it makes interesting reading, especially the comment

a bloke from Trucknet said it would be ok officer

http://www.trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=69334

It is not funny it just just some people's attitude to safety

http://www.trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=104468

 

[Antman]

Ah, my bad on the warning!

Yes that was the bus driver collecting her float and takings. After which she dons her high viz.

she was no doubt in shock and not completely with her faculties, but really she should have been tending to and dealing with her passengers first and foremost. Wether thats down to the shock not coping with the situation or management mantra to protect the revenue I am not going to speculate.

However, the responsibility of the vehicle ultimately lies with the driver. It is the driver who has to know and ensure they know the condition and limitations of the vehicle i.e its size, weight etc and i find it incredible that a driver doesnt sign for competency of the route in the same way we are required to do so on the railway. Not only do the traincrew have to prove their compentency on a route, but the rolling stock has to aswell. I cannot see how a driver can not know how high their vehicle is, as there are plates within the vehicle making it clear how high the vehicle is.

Mistakes happen, but this is negligence pure and simple.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I suspect that it was due to shock, some lost coinage would pale into insignificance compared to the damage to the bus, which I would think will be repaired in view of its age?

When I was on the buses drivers did basically sign a route, certainly no driver would have been sent out unaccompanied on a route that they didn't know. Yes the driver is responsible for the vehicle, mistakes get made and what happened here only the driver knows. I'm surprised none of the passengers alerted her, surely somebody must have realised that they were heading towards a low bridge?

 

[BestWestern]

I suspect that it was due to shock, some lost coinage would pale into insignificance compared to the damage to the bus, which I would think will be repaired in view of its age?

When I was on the buses drivers did basically sign a route, certainly no driver would have been sent out unaccompanied on a route that they didn't know. Yes the driver is responsible for the vehicle, mistakes get made and what happened here only the driver knows. I'm surprised none of the passengers alerted her, surely somebody must have realised that they were heading towards a low bridge?

Judging by the damage I would think she must have hit the bridge at quite a pace, presumably there was no last minute realisation of what was about to occur. As for repairs, I would imagine the vehicle will be scrapped. I'd suggest it is/was 'mid-life', and such significant damage is probably uneconomical to rectify.

 

[najaB]

When I was on the buses drivers did basically sign a route, certainly no driver would have been sent out unaccompanied on a route that they didn't know. Yes the driver is responsible for the vehicle, mistakes get made and what happened here only the driver knows.

The BBC article says that the bus was off-route, they don't however say why - understandable as the bus company probably wants to conduct their own internal review before making anything public.

 

[Antman]

The BBC article says that the bus was off-route, they don't however say why - understandable as the bus company probably wants to conduct their own internal review before making anything public.

Presumably she had taken a wrong turn somewhere? I don't really know Rochdale but if a bus driver was obviously lost I would try and help them out and have done so a few times on rail replacement services which often take drivers into unfamiliar areas, still no excuse for hitting a low bridge though.

 

[Ash Bridge]

The BBC article says that the bus was off-route, they don't however say why - understandable as the bus company probably wants to conduct their own internal review before making anything public.

I think it also mentioned it was the drivers first (week?) driving solo with passengers?

 

[BestWestern]

I think it also mentioned it was the drivers first (week?) driving solo with passengers?

And last...

 

[CharlieSpotted]

I think it also mentioned it was the drivers first (week?) driving solo with passengers?

First Group deny this is the case.

 

[Zoidberg]

In this article, where the most seriously injured passenger's injuries are described, he is quoted as saying that passengers warned the driver about the bridge ...

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...r-news/rochdale-bus-crash-victim-who-10030097

...

Although he does not remember the crash, he said he does remember passengers urging the bus driver to not travel under the bridge prior to it happening.

He said: “People said ‘love it is not going to fit’. Obviously the bus didn’t fit. I am not angry towards the bus driver, I am just upset that it had to come to this. I am angry about the decision she made.”

...

 

[455driver]

i find it incredible that a driver doesnt sign for competency of the route in the same way we are required to do so on the railway.

When I was a bus driver I was asked to do a College run I didn't sign and the directions (as pictograms) were drawn on a card the same size as a rail ticket with a rough verbal explanation of the route to get me to the College and then ask the kids the way.

This was a quite a few years ago and I don't think it would have improved much for out of course working like that.

 

[Ash Bridge]

First Group deny this is the case.

Ah right,

I think it was the BBC Northwest Tonight report on the day that stated that.

 

[Zoidberg]

Ah right,

I think it was the BBC Northwest Tonight report on the day that stated that.

Also mentioned in the article linked to in post #219, last updated at 17:58 yesterday.

...

It is understood she has been working for First Manchester since June and was at the end of her first week driving unsupervised when the incident took place.

...

In First's statement at

http://www.firstgroup.com/greater-m...a/statement-first-manchester-regarding-todays

it restricts itself to saying ...

...

The driver, who joined First in June this year is in shock but is physically uninjured.

...

 

[12CSVT]

Maybe one possible solution would be to make it a legal requirement for all HGVs and buses to have data panels, clearly displayed on the rear of the vehicle and on the dashboard where they can easily be seen by the driver. These would detal information such as height, width, length, weight and minimum turning circle, both in metric and imperial. Trailers would have their own data panel.

 

[furnessvale]

Maybe one possible solution would be to make it a legal requirement for all HGVs and buses to have data panels, clearly displayed on the rear of the vehicle and on the dashboard where they can easily be seen by the driver. These would detal information such as height, width, length, weight and minimum turning circle, both in metric and imperial. Trailers would have their own data panel.

Trouble is, on many vehicles such things are not fixed eg flat beds or low loaders.

In fact, a major cause of bridge strikes used to be excavators on low loaders where movement and/or heating would cause the hydraulics to raise the arm "out of gauge". It is now a legal requirement that the arm is chained down (but not always obeyed).

 

[najaB]

Trouble is, on many vehicles such things are not fixed eg flat beds or low loaders.

Even with regular lorries full vs empty can mean a difference of a few inches.

 

[Chris M]

Regarding bus drivers signing routes, diversions on the road happen for all sorts of reasons. For example a few years ago I was on what was the first bus on a route to encounter an emergency road closure (a manhole had collapsed further down the street). The diversion was down a side street that was not normally used by buses. The only options were to take this side street; reverse up a steep hill past parked cars and then onto a busy road; or leave the double decker bus blocking the road. After speaking to control the driver took the side street. In this instance there was no height restriction, but clearance between the parked cars was a matter of inches (and credit to the driver he made it).
Whether buses on the other two routes (operated by different companies) attempted it before TfL instituted a diversion I don't know, but the entire section of route was omitted for about a week until the road was fixed.

Relatedly, but at least second hand, I have heard that part of (I think) Sheffield was brought to a halt in a standoff between a police constable and a tram driver when the former was insistent that the tram divert around an accident...

 

[furnessvale]

Even with regular lorries full vs empty can mean a difference of a few inches.

Correct, but that at least, should be a known quantity.

 

[matchmaker]

Link to the Railway Accident Archive and a pdf of an accident report of a bridge strike:

http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/DoT_Oyne1978.pdf





Some interesting stuff at the end of the report as well.

 

[46223]

Presumably she had taken a wrong turn somewhere? I don't really know Rochdale but if a bus driver was obviously lost I would try and help them out and have done so a few times on rail replacement services which often take drivers into unfamiliar areas, still no excuse for hitting a low bridge though.

The bus was a No.17 From Manchester to Rochdale. Coming into Rochdale along Manchester Rd there are two right turns about 300 yards apart. The first one is Tweedale St., which takes you towards the railway station, and the low bridge. The second one is Drake St., which takes you into the town centre, and to the bus station. I think the 17 is supposed to go via Drake Street but turned into Tweedale street instead.

 

[lejog]

IIRC, the problem may have been that if the driver turned by mistake into Tweedale St, the first obvious opportunity to regain the route towards the town centre at Milkstone Road is actually a complex road junction and they would have been forced right towards the railway bridge by No Entry signs. If this is the case, they could have turned left before the bridge towards the station, then the town centre, but carried on out of town. Obviously before any investigation this is guesswork but there aren't many other obvious reasons why a bus would be so far off route and heading in the wrong direction.

Map courtesy of Manchester Evening News/TFGM.

 

[cjohnson]

Tulse Hill bashed again today - think that's three times this month?

 

[jopsuk]

There's pictures #1 #2 #3

Truck belongs to this lot. Driver forgot he had a high-cube container maybe?

 

[Ash Bridge]

Another well planned journey :roll:

 

[455driver]

Is that an 8ft6 or a 9ft6 high container?
I am sure our resident lorry apologist will be on soon to say how its the Railways fault for building their bridges too low etc!

 

[GB]

Its a 9'6'...denoted by the yellow and black hazard markings near each top corner.

 

[455driver]

Its a 9'6'...denoted by the yellow and black hazard markings near each top corner.

Thanks, I was looking on a mobile so couldn't tell.

 

[najaB]

I am sure our resident lorry apologist will be on soon to say how its the Railways fault for building their bridges too low etc!

Or that the bridge isn't clearly signed as low.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Or that the bridge isn't clearly signed as low.

He may also express great surprise that it didn't fit as it's only x inches taller than the figure on the warning sign.

 

[Chris M]

The lorry very nearly fit, so if it was someone who shares the attitude of the lorry driver earlier in this thread they probably eyeballed it and decided the signs were lying and they knew better.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The lorry very nearly fit, so if it was someone who shares the attitude of the lorry driver earlier in this thread they probably eyeballed it and decided the signs were lying and they knew better.

I wonder.... No... it couldn't possibly be... Could it...?