• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Brexit matters

Journeyman

Established Member
Joined
16 Apr 2014
Messages
6,295
I see a Top Lawyer has told MP's that the EU deal is unstable, in the sense that it can be terminated in 12 months, and subject to Tariff's in the event of disputes, and such that may make companies looking at long term investments into the UK such a Car Company investing in an Electric Car plant be somewhat reticent, certainly If I was a company looking a European base I would see little point in coming to the UK unless it was in an area that the UK had far more expertise than any other EU country.
I could have told you that right from the start.

Size of UK market - approx 70 million.
UK-EU exports now affected by expensive and complicated customs bureaucracy.
Size of EU market - approx 500 million. Biggest and wealthiest trading bloc in the world.
Exports between EU countries not subject to any controls at all. EU already has agreed deals with a number of major economies. Much wider availability of staff and expertise due to FoM.

Pretty obvious what people will do, isn't it?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

37424

Member
Joined
10 Apr 2020
Messages
1,064
Location
Leeds
I could have told you that right from the start.

Size of UK market - approx 70 million.
UK-EU exports now affected by expensive and complicated customs bureaucracy.
Size of EU market - approx 500 million. Biggest and wealthiest trading bloc in the world.
Exports between EU countries not subject to any controls at all. EU already has agreed deals with a number of major economies. Much wider availability of staff and expertise due to FoM.

Pretty obvious what people will do, isn't it?
Yes it is, we have Tesla going to Germany for instance but course it is not obvious to Brexiteers.
 

Journeyman

Established Member
Joined
16 Apr 2014
Messages
6,295
Yes it is, we have Tesla going to Germany for instance but course it is not obvious to Brexiteers.
The Ineos Grenadier was going to be built in Wales as well, but will now be built in France. But hey. Sovereignty. Fish. Blue passports. *eyeroll*
 

nlogax

Established Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
6,007
Location
Mostly Glasgow-ish. Mostly.
Yes it is, we have Tesla going to Germany for instance but course it is not obvious to Brexiteers.

It's obvious to Brexiteers as much as anyone else but they choose to - have to - ignore it as these uncomfortable tales of reality completely fall outside of their fairytale 'sunlit uplands' narrative.
 

37424

Member
Joined
10 Apr 2020
Messages
1,064
Location
Leeds
The Ineos Grenadier was going to be built in Wales as well, but will now be built in France.
Indeed and Radcliffe is Pro Brexit as well, with friends like that you don't need enemy's.

It does amaze that some seemingly very clever Businessmen decided to publicly pick a side when which ever side you chose you potentially alienated half your customer base at a stroke. There is no way that I will ever venture into a Wetherspoons again or buy a Grenadier for that matter.

Probably one of the first big questions for this EU deal is Ellesmere Port Vauxhall, with the Astra due for replacement are Peugeot or Peugeot/Fiat as its now just become willing to invest in it or close it?

If its closure that will be a nice early negative for Brexit.
 
Last edited:

Journeyman

Established Member
Joined
16 Apr 2014
Messages
6,295
Indeed and Radcliffe is Pro Brexit as well, with friends like that you don't need enemy's.

It does amaze that some seemingly very clever Businessmen decided to publicly pick a side when which ever side you chose you potentially alienated half your customer base at a stroke. There is no was that I will ever venture into a Wetherspoons again or buy a Grenadier for that matter.
Exactly. I'm doing my best to avoid any business that I know is run by a pro-Brexiteer, especially if they've extremely hypocritically taken their businesses abroad.
 

ABB125

Established Member
Joined
23 Jul 2016
Messages
4,331
Location
University of Birmingham
The Ineos Grenadier was going to be built in Wales as well, but will now be built in France. But hey. Sovereignty. Fish. Blue passports. *eyeroll*
An alternative story I've heard (admittedly 3rd hand, but via trustworthy sources) is that Mr Ratcliffe was actually paid a substantial amount of money by Mercedes (I think) to build the Grenadier in France. The reason being that otherwise Mercedes would have to close the factory, making loads of people redundant. Which is quite expensive for a factory in France owned by a German company...
 

37424

Member
Joined
10 Apr 2020
Messages
1,064
Location
Leeds
An alternative story I've heard (admittedly 3rd hand, but via trustworthy sources) is that Mr Ratcliffe was actually paid a substantial amount of money by Mercedes (I think) to build the Grenadier in France. The reason being that otherwise Mercedes would have to close the factory, making loads of people redundant. Which is quite expensive for a factory in France owned by a German company...
I don't think its exactly a secret that he probably got a good business deal out of it from Merc, he will continue to make Smart cars at the factory for Merc at least until future models are transferred to China, but when your a Pro Brexiteer and the Welsh Government was already spending money preparing the site and access etc it doesn't look good.
 

ABB125

Established Member
Joined
23 Jul 2016
Messages
4,331
Location
University of Birmingham
I don't think its exactly a secret that he probably got a good business deal out of it from Merc, he will continue to make Smart cars at the factory for Merc at least until future models are transferred to China, but when your a Pro Brexiteer and the Welsh Government was already spending money preparing the site and access etc it doesn't look good, a smell of hypocrisy which is something Brexiteers seem quite good at.
I agree. However I really don't think he would have moved there if Mercedes hadn't... sweetened the deal
 

class ep-09

Member
Joined
5 Sep 2013
Messages
631
I agree. However I really don't think he would have moved there if Mercedes hadn't... sweetened the deal


Very “patriotic” indeed .

It’s about money honey ... and Mr Ratcliffe does’t give a s...t about UK , brexiters , UK workers ( or paying taxes in UK as well for that matter).
 

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
33,589
Location
Scotland
So, people in NI are already feeling the Brexit benefits...


== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Well, this didn't take long...

 
Last edited:

nlogax

Established Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
6,007
Location
Mostly Glasgow-ish. Mostly.
So, people in NI are already feeling the Brexit benefits...


== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Well, this didn't take long...


From the Indy article,
Mr Hannan is widely seen as an intellectual driving force from the 1990s for what became as Brexit

'intellectual driving force' had me coughing over my breakfast.
 

alex397

Established Member
Joined
6 Oct 2017
Messages
2,026
Location
UK
Well, this didn't take long...

So, the ‘scaremongering’ is coming true with some aspects of Brexit then. The only people that will benefit are those big business owners who care little about their workers. I wonder if any average working people who voted for the Tories at the last election are aware how their rights are threatened.
 
Last edited:

birchesgreen

Established Member
Joined
18 Aug 2015
Messages
7,652
Location
Solihull
So, the ‘scaremongering’ is coming true with some aspects of Brexit then. The only people that will benefit are those big business owners who care little about their workers. I wonder if any average working people who voted for the Tories at the last election are aware how their rights are threatened.
The right wing media will help them blame the true culprits: foreigners
 

alex397

Established Member
Joined
6 Oct 2017
Messages
2,026
Location
UK
The right wing media will help them blame the true culprits: foreigners
Don’t forget ‘benefit scroungers’ !

What astounds me is how open and public some sections of the Tory party are about destroying our rights, and still don’t have a massive backlash. They certainly won’t get it from large sections of the media, whose millionaire owners may benefit from a bonfire of rights.

One of the reasons I support being in the EU, is that I don’t trust our government to be left to their own devices.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
30,841
Location
UK
Now they're moaning about it not stopping the foreigners anyway...

Irony! Did anyone think businesses wouldn't want continued access to cheap labour? If not people from Europe, then very soon we'll be doing deals with India, China and beyond that will come with offers of work permits and residency.

Meanwhile, we'll get rid of the worker protections in the UK too.


The new “points-based” immigration system comes into operation on January 1 but it will not reduce net migration. Indeed, it is far more likely to increase it substantially. What is certain is that it is by far the greatest shake up of the system for half a century with implications for the scale and nature of immigration which are huge. Despite this there has been virtually no Parliamentary scrutiny and, thanks largely to Covid and Brexit, very little public discussion.

Certainly, most of the public will be unaware that the new arrangements for recruiting immigrant workers represent a total surrender to every demand that employers could think of. The ‘consultation’ groups set up by the Home Office were dominated by business interests and their advisory committee is largely comprised of economists. The outcome was a scheme providing a bonanza for business at the expense of their workers. Although it was published before Covid struck, no adjustments whatsoever have been made to take account of the massive deterioration in the UK labour market that has resulted.
 

alex397

Established Member
Joined
6 Oct 2017
Messages
2,026
Location
UK
Kent Police have fined 84 lorry drivers for entering the country county of Kent without a permit. Another great way to discourage haulage firms from wanting to deal with the UK. More Brexit bureaucracy! (although at least it’s OUR bureaucracy, eh?).
There are plenty of real crimes occurring in Kent which the overstretched Kent Police already struggles to deal with before using resources for Brexit.

See tweet from Kent Police here.
84 fines have been issued since 1 January to EU-bound lorry drivers who have entered Kent without a valid Kent Access Permit. You can apply for a permit at gov.uk/check-hgv-bord… or visit this link for further information -
 
Last edited:

class ep-09

Member
Joined
5 Sep 2013
Messages
631
And fish ...

UK fishermen , will not sell the fish to the EU very soon ( their biggest market ) as the paperwork and delays makes business unviable .
Any delay means that fresh fish goes off or looses its value in the eyes of EU buyers.

Reported in quite few media outlets .

We can feed that fish to the pigs now , but it won’t fetch hood price I bet.
 

alex397

Established Member
Joined
6 Oct 2017
Messages
2,026
Location
UK
Some more Brexit benefits coming our way soon.....

From the Independent (for balance, the Torygraph are also reporting this story). It’s not quite as bad as the headline states, as it will be for ‘emergency‘ usage only, but still concerning and arguably shouldn’t be used at all.

Government to let farmers use bee-killing pesticide banned in EU
A bee-killing pesticide so poisonous that it is banned by the EU may be used on sugar beet in England, the government has announced.
The decision prompted fury from nature-lovers and environmentalists, who accused ministers of bowing to pressure from farmers.
They said during the biodiversity crisis, when at least half the world’s insects have disappeared, the government should be doing everything it could to save bees, not allow them to be killed.
Environment secretary George Eusticehas agreed to let a product containing the neonicotinoid thiamethoxam to treat sugar beet seed this year in an effort to protect the crop from a virus.
Last year a virus significantly reduced sugar beet yields, and similar conditions this year would be likely to present similar dangers, Mr Eustice’s department said.
Setting out conditions for the “limited and controlled” use of the pesticide, officials said the minister had agreed an emergency authorisation of it for up to 120 days. British Sugar and the National Farmers Union had applied to the government to be allowed to use it.
But the Wildlife Trusts said neonicotinoids pose a significant environmental risk, particularly to bees and other pollinators.


A third of the UK bee population is thought to have vanished in a decade, yet up to three-quarters of crop species are pollinated by bees, studies show.
A 2017 study of 33 oilseed rape sites in the UK, Germany and Hungary found a link between higher levels of neonicotinoid residues and lower bee reproduction, with fewer queens in bumblebee hives and fewer egg cells in solitary bee nests.
The following year, the EU agreed a ban on all outdoor uses of three neonicotinoid insecticides to protect bees.
Evidence suggests the pesticides harm bee brain development, weaken immune systems and can leave bees unable to fly.
A 2019 report by the UN Food and Agriculture Organisation and the World Health Organisation said there was a “rapidly growing body of evidence” that “strongly suggests that the existing levels of environmental contamination” by neonicotinoids were causing “large-scale adverse effects on bees and other beneficial insects”.
The Wildlife Trusts tweeted: “Bad news for bees: The Government has bowed to pressure from the National Farmers Union to agree the use of a highly damaging pesticide.
“The government know the clear harm that neonicotinoid pesticides cause to bees and other pollinators and just three years ago supported restrictions on them across the European Union.
“Insects perform vital roles such as pollination of crops and wildflowers, and nutrient recycling, but so many have suffered drastic declines.”
The trusts added that evidence suggests the world has lost at least 50 per cent of insects since 1970, and 41 per cent of insect species were now threatened with extinction.
“We need urgent action to restore the abundance of our insect populations, not broken promises that make the ecological crisis even worse.”
The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs said sugar beet was cultivated in only one out of four beet-processing factories in the east of England.
Last month it was revealed that the National Farmers’ Union had organised a letter from members to Mr Eustice urging him to allow the neonicotinoid called Cruiser SB to be used in England this spring.
A message to members stated: “Engagement on this campaign has been truly incredible”, adding: “Please refrain from sharing this on social media.”
Thiamethoxam is designed protect sugar beet in its early stages from insects but critics warn it will not only kill bees but also harm creatures in the soil as it washes off.
NFU sugar board chairman Michael Sly said the pesticide would be used in a limited and controlled way and only when the scientific threshold has been independently judged to have been met.
“Virus yellows disease is having an unprecedented impact on Britain’s sugar beet crop, with some growers experiencing yield losses of up to 80 per cent, and this authorisation is desperately needed to fight this disease. It will be crucial in ensuring that Britain’s sugar beet growers continue to have viable farm businesses,” he said.
A Defra spokesperson said: “Emergency authorisations for pesticides are only granted in exceptional circumstances where diseases or pests cannot be controlled by any other reasonable means. Emergency authorisations are used by countries across Europe.
“Pesticides can only be used where we judge there to be no harm to human health and animal health, and no unacceptable risks to the environment. The temporary use of this product is strictly limited to a non-flowering crop and will be tightly controlled to minimise any potential risk to pollinators.”
We really need to keep a very close eye on what this government is up to post-Brexit. Although sadly they’ll just do what they like, regardless of what is reported in the media.
 
Last edited:

JamesT

Established Member
Joined
25 Feb 2015
Messages
4,827
Some more Brexit benefits coming our way soon.....

From the Independent (for balance, the Torygraph are also reporting this story). It’s not quite as bad as the headline states, as it will be for ‘emergency‘ usage only, but still concerning and arguably shouldn’t be used at all.

Government to let farmers use bee-killing pesticide banned in EU

We really need to keep a very close eye on what this government is up to post-Brexit. Although sadly they’ll just do what they like, regardless of what is reported in the media.
Though it’s not entirely a Brexit benefit. The French are doing exactly the same thing - https://www.connexionfrance.com/Fre...use-of-controversial-pesticide-neonicotinoids
The constitutional council gave its approval yesterday (December 10) for sugar beet farmers in France to use insecticides known as neonicotinoids for the next three years.

Neonicotinoids are known to be harmful to bees and have a negative impact on biodiversity, but in October French MPs passed a law allowing their use.
 

Mag_seven

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
1 Sep 2014
Messages
11,934
Location
here to eternity

overthewater

Established Member
Joined
16 Apr 2012
Messages
9,086
After 4 years of talking, and numerous chances for the public to change their minds even with the lies that were spread.. How did Boris and co still manage to pick up more labour voters to get his maj. It would mean most of the public just don't care about the lies and just wanted out?
 

Typhoon

Established Member
Joined
2 Nov 2017
Messages
3,540
Location
Kent
After 4 years of talking, and numerous chances for the public to change their minds even with the lies that were spread.. How did Boris and co still manage to pick up more labour voters to get his maj. It would mean most of the public just don't care about the lies and just wanted out?
You are right. Lied into submission. Stories like the bee insecticide only affect a few people directly - they will eat away at the edges of our rights.

More people saw Boris as PM than Jeremy.
I would suggest 'Fewer people saw Jeremy as PM than Boris' is closer to the mark for most, although it boils down to the same thing.
 

Journeyman

Established Member
Joined
16 Apr 2014
Messages
6,295
I would suggest 'Fewer people saw Jeremy as PM than Boris' is closer to the mark for most, although it boils down to the same thing.
Unfortunately, the last election felt like we were given the choice between giant heaps of either horse manure or cow dung.
 

Typhoon

Established Member
Joined
2 Nov 2017
Messages
3,540
Location
Kent
Unfortunately, the last election felt like we were given the choice between giant heaps of either horse manure or cow dung.
While agreeing wholeheartedly with your sentiment aroma-wise, I have a bag of horse manure in my garden which I will use to fertilise the soil. I don't think either of them would be that useful.
 

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
33,589
Location
Scotland
While agreeing wholeheartedly with your sentiment aroma-wise, I have a bag of horse manure in my garden which I will use to fertilise the soil. I don't think either of them would be that useful.
Had Boris kept one of his promises with respect to Brexit there would be a ditch that could be used to test that.
 

Journeyman

Established Member
Joined
16 Apr 2014
Messages
6,295
While agreeing wholeheartedly with your sentiment aroma-wise, I have a bag of horse manure in my garden which I will use to fertilise the soil. I don't think either of them would be that useful.
My original choice of words would have got my comment deleted.
 

Top