Brexit matters

[AlterEgo]

As far as I'm aware all workers applying for a visa under the skilled workers scheme need to demonstrate they can speak, read, write and understand English.

Skilled Worker visa

Apply for a Skilled Worker visa (formerly a Tier 2 General work visa) if you’ve been offered a skilled job with a UK employer - eligibility, fees, documents, extend, switch or update, bring your partner and children, taking on additional work.

www.gov.uk

You do not need to prove your knowledge of English if you’re a national of one of the following countries:

• Antigua and Barbuda
• Australia
• the Bahamas
• Barbados
• Belize
• Canada
• Dominica
• Grenada
• Guyana
• Jamaica
• Malta
• New Zealand
• St Kitts and Nevis
• St Lucia
• St Vincent and the Grenadines
• Trinidad and Tobago
• USA

 

[deltic]

Are skilled IT workers from Russia, Iran or China treated the same as those from any other country?

They are likely to be security checks on all visa applicants - I work with people of each of those nationalities

 

[AM9]

As far as I'm aware all workers applying for a visa under the skilled workers scheme need to demonstrate they can speak, read, write and understand English.

So would a US citizen of Hispanic origins with a poor command of english, (but not looking particularly non-caucasian) be asked. (I was already typing this when @AlterEgo's post popped up).

 

[najaB]

As far as I'm aware all workers applying for a visa under the skilled workers scheme need to demonstrate they can speak, read, write and understand English.

You are incorrect.

 

[deltic]

You are incorrect.

@AlterEgo has outlined the few exceptions which are based on the assumed native language spoken by the residents of those countries - if there are any other exceptions I'm sure you will let us know

 

[AM9]

@AlterEgo has outlined the few exceptions which are based on the assumed native language spoken by the residents of those countries - if there are any other exceptions I'm sure you will let us know

'Few' in number of countries but quite significant in numbers who can arrive without scrutiny.

 

[RT4038]

Because, of course, there are no skilled IT workers in the EU...

But the system now treats skilled IT workers the same regardless of which country they come from in the world.

The UK now has no responsibility to prioritise immigrants from the EU, or be fair to all comers either. The point is that the UK can now exercise control over where immigrants come from and their quantity. If foreign policy meant it expedient to take more immigrants from one country rather than another, then so be it.

 

[deltic]

'Few' in number of countries but quite significant in numbers who can arrive without scrutiny.

depends what you mean by scrutiny - in relation to language in these few cases then no - but in regard to everything else ie employer, pay etc then yes. Not sure there will be many employers paying the going rate for skilled work who don't need a reasonable degree of English ability - chefs may be the exception

 

[najaB]

The UK now has no responsibility to prioritise immigrants from the EU, or be fair to all comers either.

We didn't before either. Were always free to allow in as many non-EU migrants as we wanted to, on whatever basis we wanted to. We were never part of the Schengen agreement.

 

[RT4038]

We didn't before either. Were always free to allow in as many non-EU migrants as we wanted to, on whatever basis we wanted to. We were never part of the Schengen agreement.

Were always free to allow in as many or as few non-EU migrants as we wanted to. Prior to Brexit, we were not free to apply that principle to EU citizens. (subject to certain conditions, with little practicable application)

 

[AY1975]

So how are migrants from across Europe able to live on the farms where they work for a number of weeks or months if necessary, whereas people from other parts of the UK (perhaps a few miles up the road) cannot?

Because farm labourers are often seasonal, and as such our agricultural sector has until now largely relied on migrant workers, often from central and eastern Europe, who would come over to work on farms for a few weeks or months often living in some form of temporary on-site accommodation.

On the other hand, there simply aren't many native Britons who would be able or willing to do that kind of thing for a few weeks or months at a time. Or if there are, can you describe the circumstances under which someone might be prepared to do that kind of thing? What do you think they do with themselves during the rest of the year?

Besides, many farms are located in remote rural areas, some distance from major centres of population, and even if they are located close to towns they are often small towns with ageing populations as many younger people have tended to migrate to the major cities and conurbations where there are more job and career opportunities.

 

[najaB]

On the other hand, there simply aren't many native Britons who would be able or willing to do that kind of thing for a few weeks or months at a time. Or if there are, can you describe the circumstances under which someone might be prepared to do that kind of thing? What do you think they do with themselves during the rest of the year?

Surely that logic applies to the EU national - doubly so given that they are at least a flight away from home.

 

[Gloster]

I read in The London Economic that the UK has signed a deal with Nepal to recruit nurses for the NHS. Nepal was on a World Health Organisation Red List to prevent health workers being poached, but there is a get out for western countries as this is acceptable if there is an agreement, which there is in this case.

I have for some time considered that recruitment of nursing staff is one of the hidden downsides of Brexit, although possibly not for the UK in the short term. This country may recruit staff from the poorest parts of the world, so damaging their health systems. But, hey, I’m all right, Jack. In the long term it may have the disadvantage of further damaging the UK’s already diminished world standing as we are seen as a country that, in effect, continues to practice colonial policies in the Twenty-first century.

 

[AlterEgo]

I read in The London Economic that the UK has signed a deal with Nepal to recruit nurses for the NHS. Nepal was on a World Health Organisation Red List to prevent health workers being poached, but there is a get out for western countries as this is acceptable if there is an agreement, which there is in this case.

I have for some time considered that recruitment of nursing staff is one of the hidden downsides of Brexit, although possibly not for the UK in the short term. This country may recruit staff from the poorest parts of the world, so damaging their health systems. But, hey, I’m all right, Jack. In the long term it may have the disadvantage of further damaging the UK’s already diminished world standing as we are seen as a country that, in effect, continues to practice colonial policies in the Twenty-first century.

It might be bad but it’s not a colonial practice if we are doing it with the express agreement of Nepal’s sovereign government.

 

[Sm5]

One of the key drivers behind freedom of movement was a free market aspiration to emulate the US economy. The idea was that people should move from areas performing badly with high levels of unemployment to those where there was a shortage of labour to drive growth in Europe. It worked extremely well leading to large flows of money from west and north to south and eastern Europe. Margaret Thatcher was a key supporter of the idea along with the single market that it was a major part of. Funny how you don't hear Truss and Sunak speaking out in support of this Thatcherite policy..

This works fine in a country of 50 unified states with similar beliefs and history, mostly speaking one of 2 languages.

it doesnt work as well in 28 countries with 28 languages, on a continent of 2000 years of war, hatred and cultures aimed at getting one over the neighbours.

The winners were new comers to the EU who were prepared to ignore history, learn a new language and relocate, and forget the baggage. Its not worked for education shy, welfare state supported workers who refused to relocate away from government supported comfort zones In the west.

The UK has benefited the language of global business, “American”, which has far more spend power and none of the baggage of history. As an EU member we were the trusted gateway, benefitting a similar US culture and legal system, EU awareness and trust sharing a business language that both the US and EU could use to broker deals. This has benefitted our forex, our services sector, taxation and bringing immigrants cut out inflation and interest rates…weve never had it so good.

Now we are out, Ireland and Holland have taken much of this role. We are neither trusted nor needed by either side and will become like the Icelandics… a local office subsidiary to EU operations of those relocated businesses… its happened, its changing and neither Truss or Sunak can do anything about it, so there is no point talking about it.

The risk thats becoming apparent, is at some point the middle class, now lacking those international earning opportunities, will lose income to a point they cannot support further tax, to support the welfare state thats protected that reluctant lower end for the last decades… what then ?, as just like the weather, the governments money tree is losing its leaves faster than the drought… Those ones with money will relocate, those with talent will speculate and the losing side will be Inflation, interest rates and forex.. none of which the lower class understands, but will bear the brunt the most…

Weve been living in a Covid bounce this summer, people are consuming regardless the price, to compensate two years losees due to Covid. However once those funds are burnt, the credit cards are maxed and winter comes, things will change rapidly overnigh…

I fear end of October things will fare badly for the UK. Its the traditional months the money markets wake up, and set their positions before year end, right now what to they have to be bullish about the UK ?.. declining economy, no choice but to follow US interest rates to preserve forex, to preserve Energy imports and sustain inflation Linked debt repayments, and of course the collapse in balance of trade… the biggest risk to the UK is ability to afford private debt repayments, particularly the housing and unsecured debt markets as we head into an Energy crisis… a failure here could trigger a housing and ergo another banking crisis. The loss of cheap immigrant labour has contributed to inflation and interest rates.

Europe is not sharing our problems. Their economy hasnt changed, their freedom of movement hasnt changed, even their ability to freely sell to the UK hasnt changed… UK inbound tourism hasnt changed… nothings changed apart from energy prices, and their governments are shielding them from it, inflation exists, but is offset by high demand, indeed 6 mn immigrants from Ukraine is benefitting inflation and interest rates, just as it used to with us.

The UK cannot afford its lifestyle post Brexit.. public or private, quite simply we are bleeding cash, at some point a run on the £, revaluation of currency and runaway interest rates maybe on the cards. This triggers loss of confidence, runaway inflation, collapse in jobs and huge loss of personal wealth… This is what is economists call rebalancing the economy, which is somewhat different to the politicians definition. Thats why the BoE predicts 15 months recession.. but before the burndown cometh the crash that causes the fire… the BBC is trying its best to redirect the problem, but the UKs international creditors lenders dont listen to the BBC.

 

[reddragon]

Just returned from the EU by car and my borders & customs observations are: -

Going out

British Customs were slow, checking out UK & EU citizens in detail, French customs no queue just a quick stamp & away. So it was easy to blame the French whilst all the delays were with UK customs!

Coming back

Utter nightmare!

EU customs simply stamped you out. British Customs = hell on earth. UK passports scrutinised for stamping in & out. EU citizens treated like criminals taking 15 minutes per car!!! It would seem that despite EU citizens with a passport or ID and a settled status residents card being allowed in, UK Customs have introduced a new system unannounced that EU citizens have to register on UKVI all IDs & other stuff, they just forgot to tell a few million EU citizens living here. This is why our customs have significant delays!! Not Brexit, not the French or EU but our own bungling red tape driven foolishness supported by negative political rhetoric.

I get the feeling the Brexit is all about hate, racism and insular attitudes as a cover to protect some very rich peoples tax havens & tax avoidance. Half the UK population were conned.

Also, funnily enough in the countries I visited there is no crisis. No energy crisis, no cost of living crisis, no labour shortages. Yes petrol prices have gone up and there's a few minor issues but that's it. I know further east there are some issues but not on the scale of the UK.

I just come back and see Brexit as a suicide mission! The end of the UK as a whole entity or as a successful country. "We are doomed" as Frazer would say, unless we change a lot.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Just returned from the EU by car and my borders & customs observations are: -

Going out

British Customs were slow, checking out UK & EU citizens in detail, French customs no queue just a quick stamp & away. So it was easy to blame the French whilst all the delays were with UK customs!

Coming back

Utter nightmare!

EU customs simply stamped you out. British Customs = hell on earth. UK passports scrutinised for stamping in & out. EU citizens treated like criminals taking 15 minutes per car!!! It would seem that despite EU citizens with a passport or ID and a settled status residents card being allowed in, UK Customs have introduced a new system unannounced that EU citizens have to register on UKVI all IDs & other stuff, they just forgot to tell a few million EU citizens living here. This is why our customs have significant delays!! Not Brexit, not the French or EU but our own bungling red tape driven foolishness supported by negative political rhetoric.

I get the feeling the Brexit is all about hate, racism and insular attitudes as a cover to protect some very rich peoples tax havens & tax avoidance. Half the UK population were conned.

Also, funnily enough in the countries I visited there is no crisis. No energy crisis, no cost of living crisis, no labour shortages. Yes petrol prices have gone up and there's a few minor issues but that's it. I know further east there are some issues but not on the scale of the UK.

I just come back and see Brexit as a suicide mission! The end of the UK as a whole entity or as a successful country. "We are doomed" as Frazer would say, unless we change a lot.

I am shocked that it is in fact our ineptitude at the borders causing issues! Who'd have thunk it!

I don't believe you can see enough as a tourist to say about crises, I believe many Western European countries are having similar issues to us on cost of living etc. Just hidden better from tourists. Tourists to UK might also think there was no crisis here.

 

[reddragon]

I don't believe you can see enough as a tourist to say about crises, I believe many Western European countries are having similar issues to us on cost of living etc. Just hidden better from tourists. Tourists to UK might also think there was no crisis here.

I stayed with friends & family and we talked about it a lot.

They regard the UK as in a similar crisis to Ukraine just without the bombing, especially with the huge numbers of UK refugees applying to gain EU citizenship to escape the crisis.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Also, funnily enough in the countries I visited there is no crisis. No energy crisis, no cost of living crisis, no labour shortages.

So I guess you didn't visit France then, where on a quick check of France24, Macron is warning of tough times ahead, and where energy prices are only capped because the Government is currently spending billions temporarily subsidising them:

"I believe that we are in the process of living through a tipping point or great upheaval. Firstly because we are living through... what could seem like the end of abundance," said Macron, 44.

The speech appeared designed to prepare the country for what promises to be a difficult winter ahead, with energy prices rising sharply and many families struggling with inflation.

And I guess you also didn't visit Germany, where hot water is in some cases being rationed or switched off and there are huge concerns about energy shortages. According to the Financial Times

Germany is rationing hot water, dimming its street lights and shutting down swimming pools as the impact of its energy crunch begins to spread from industry to offices, leisure centres and homes. A huge increase in gas prices triggered by Russia’s move last month to sharply reduce supplies to Germany has plunged Europe’s biggest economy into its worst energy crisis since the oil price shock of 1973. Gas importers and utilities are fighting for survival while consumer bills are going through the roof, with some warning of rising friction. “The situation is more than dramatic,” said Axel Gedaschko, head of the federation of German housing enterprises GdW. “Germany’s social peace is in great danger.”

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Aug 2022 ==

They regard the UK as in a similar crisis to Ukraine just without the bombing, especially with the huge numbers of UK refugees applying to gain EU citizenship to escape the crisis.

You're destroying your own credibility by using this kind of silly hyperbole in your posts. There is no sensible comparison between the Ukraine - where there is an invading army routinely pillaging, raping, and torturing civilians - and the UK where our problems are basically that inflation and the cost of living are high. I have nothing against any UK citizen who wishes, for whatever reason, to emigrate, but to describe such people as 'refugees' is - to my mind - insulting towards genuine refugees (in other words, people who are fleeing war and actual persecution).

 

[reddragon]

You're destroying your own credibility by using this kind of silly hyperbole in your posts. There is no sensible comparison between the Ukraine - where there is an invading army routinely pillaging, raping, and torturing civilians - and the UK where our problems are basically that inflation and the cost of living are high. I have nothing against any UK citizen who wishes, for whatever reason, to emigrate, but to describe such people as 'refugees' is - to my mind - insulting towards genuine refugees (in other words, people who are fleeing war and actual persecution).

I am referring to opinion expressed by many EU citizens, spurred on by those EU citizens who left the UK due to Brexit. They are laughing at us with a degree of sympathy.

 

[najaB]

So I guess you didn't visit France then

And I guess you also didn't visit Germany

Yes, many EU countries have rising energy prices, but ours are rising faster than almost anywhere else in the continent.

You're destroying your own credibility by using this kind of silly hyperbole in your posts.

Quoting someone you have spoken to isn't hyperbole - at least not on the part of the person doing the quoting.

 

[RT4038]

I am referring to opinion expressed by many EU citizens, spurred on by those EU citizens who left the UK due to Brexit. They are laughing at us with a degree of sympathy.

I would expect people who are in this position (that someone in their friendly club has decided to leave voluntarily) to feel a little rejected and to put on a brave mocking face. After all, we would if the boot was on the other foot.

 

[Annetts key]

With regards to the energy situation in France, this is partly due to

half of EDF’s 56 nuclear reactors are offline due to planned maintenance and work to repair corrosion

This information from here. Hence France is importing electricity from elsewhere (including the U.K.) and running its CCGT (gas turbines) at a much higher output than normal.

Whether you agree or disagree with using nuclear power for domestic electricity production, Germany has been and still is decommissioning it’s nuclear reactors at what is now seen as an unfortunate time… And the low river levels are affecting distribution of bulk coal and other bulk goods by ship/boat/barge. As is often the case, it’s a number of factors combined that are all helping to make the problems worse than if it was only the Russian warmongering and the resulting actions from it.

Oh, and the various councils and highways authorities have not only been dimming street lights for many years in the U.K., some switch lots of them off completely between about midnight/01:00 and dawn/05:00/06:00.

 

[najaB]

I don't believe you can see enough as a tourist to say about crises, I believe many Western European countries are having similar issues to us on cost of living etc. Just hidden better from tourists. Tourists to UK might also think there was no crisis here.

I went to the bank an hour or so ago and the city centre streets were strewn with rubbish because the binmen are on strike - that kind of disruption (along with rail strikes, etc.) - is very difficult to hide from tourists.

 

[reddragon]

I went to the bank an hour or so ago and the city centre streets were strewn with rubbish because the binmen are on strike - that kind of disruption (along with rail strikes, etc.) - is very difficult to hide from tourists.

There are strikes in the UK, the French love to strike, less so in other countries.

 

[RT4038]

There are strikes in the UK, the French love to strike, less so in other countries.

The Italians too. The Danes are no slouches, there were a series of German rail strikes before Covid, and the Dutch have some shortly.

 

[duncanp]

Also, funnily enough in the countries I visited there is no crisis. No energy crisis, no cost of living crisis, no labour shortages. Yes petrol prices have gone up and there's a few minor issues but that's it. I know further east there are some issues but not on the scale of the UK.

If you are trying to imply that there is no energy crisis in the EU, that is quite simply nonsense.

Germany is already turning down heating and lighting ahead of anticipated gas shortage this winter, and is dusting off plans for rationing gas.

France is spending huge sums of money subsidising electricity prices, which will have to be paid back later.

The Belgian Prime Minister has warned that the energy crisis in Europe could last for up to 10 years.

If the UK was still a member of the EU, we would still be facing the same issues regarding energy prices, and the EU wouldn't come riding to our rescue with a magic money tree of cash. Quite the opposite in fact

And if think there isn't a labour shortage in the EU.

"Penurie de chaffeurs de cars" translates as "..shortage of bus drivers.."

Pénurie de chauffeurs de cars: 5% du ramassage scolaire pourrait ne pas être assuré

Parmi les secteurs d’emploi en tension, celui des transports scolaires inquiète en...

www.lavoixdunord.fr

Pénurie de chauffeurs de cars: 5% du ramassage scolaire pourrait ne pas être assuré​

Parmi les secteurs d’emploi en tension, celui des transports scolaires inquiète encore à une semaine de la rentrée. Malgré une pénurie de chauffeurs de cars scolaires qui n’est pas résolue, le gouvernement assure qu’il n’y aura que très peu de suspensions de dessertes.

Ingrid Mareschal, déléguée générale de la Fédération Nationale des Transports de Voyageurs (FNTV), estime sur actu.fr que « 5 % des circuits scolaires sont susceptibles de ne pas être assurés » et que « 400 000 élèves seront concernés par une réorganisation de circuits avec un trajet plus long ou un arrêt plus loin de leur domicile », quand ce n’est pas carrément la suppression de la desserte. « Il y aura forcément des lignes qui ne pourront pas être assurées », prévient de son côté Jean-Marc Rivera, délégué général de l’OTRE (Organisation des transporteurs routiers européens), l’une des organisations patronales du secteur. Il s’est dit favorable à l’autorisation du cumul d’activité avec le retrait ou le chômage pour faire venir des bras, sachant que les postes de chauffeurs sont souvent à temps partiel.

Il manque encore environ 8000 chauffeurs pour la rentrée et la reprise du ramassage scolaire. Dans les Hauts-de-France, Franck Dhersin, vice-président de la Région en charge des transports estime qu’il en manque encore 180 (contre 400 au début de l’été), avec à la clé le risque de devoir supprimer des dessertes pour les 212 000 collégiens et lycéens.

Le gouvernement veut rassurer​

Une réunion interministérielle s’est déroulée hier soir entre le ministre des Transports et ceux du Travail et de l’Éducation. À l’issue de laquelle le discours s’est voulu rassurant. Le gouvernement assure que très peu d’élèves seront privés de transport

Les manques de chauffeurs encore constatés ne conduiront pas, dans la quasi-totalité des cas, à des suspensions de dessertes », a-t-on déclaré à l’AFP, saluant « la mobilisation très forte de l’ensemble des acteurs », qui « se sont organisés pour assurer le transport scolaire des enfants à la rentrée ».

Clément Beaune (Transports), Pap Ndiaye (Éducation) et Olivier Dussopt (Travail) ont rencontré les fédérations professionnelles du secteur du transport de voyageurs ainsi que des représentants de Régions de France « pour faire un point d’étape sur les difficultés de recrutement de conducteurs dans les transports scolaires, qui relèvent de la compétence des Régions », selon un communiqué publié dans la soirée.

 

[najaB]

France is spending huge sums of money subsidising electricity prices, which will have to be paid back later.

Though, there's every reason to expect that this short-term pain will pay off in higher economic output in future years. Which is likely a better outcome than letting people die because they can't heat their homes.

The Belgian Prime Minister has warned that the energy crisis in Europe could last for up to 10 years.

It won't be a crisis for a decade. This winter will be exceptionally hard, next will be difficult. My prediction is that by winter 2024/25 there will be sufficient gas storage to get the EU through the winter, and likely massive Iranian supplies coming into the market. By 2027/28 there will be enough renewables capacity to get through the winter with mostly domestic energy.

And if think there isn't a labour shortage in the EU.

There is a labour shortage, but it's nowhere near as severe as it is in the UK. We are almost half a year into there being more job vacancies than jobseekers. This is almost unheard of in any developed economy.

 

[RT4038]

There is a labour shortage, but it's nowhere near as severe as it is in the UK. We are almost half a year into there being more job vacancies than jobseekers. This is almost unheard of in any developed economy.

I think you'll find it has happened in the UK before, through the 50s, 60s, 70s ......

 

[najaB]

I think you'll find it has happened in the UK before, through the 50s, 60s, 70s ......

Perhaps you need to correct the BBC, Financial Times, Sky News, etc.

For example:

There are more job vacancies than unemployed people in the UK for the first time since records began.

The unemployment rate fell to 3.7% between January and March, its lowest for almost 50 years, as job openings rose to a new high of 1.3 million.

Job vacancies outpace unemployment for first time

The unemployment rate falls to its lowest level for nearly 50 years between January and March.

www.bbc.co.uk