BR Class 180 - Adelantes

[Philip]

Could the 180s that soon to be leaving EMR be sent to TPE, to replace some of the problematic loco-hauled stock?

 

[43096]

Could the 180s that soon to be leaving EMR be sent to TPE, to replace some of the problematic loco-hauled stock?

No. Why would you want to introduce another train type to TPE?

 

[Philip]

No. Why would you want to introduce another train type to TPE?

The same could be said for most rail companies which could potentially take on these 180s, likewise the 175s. It didn't stop Northern taking them on when they had various Sprinter types in the fleet.

 

[43096]

The same could be said for whichever rail company takes on these 180s

You are assuming that someone will take on the 180s.

It didn't stop Northern taking them on when they had various Sprinter types in the fleet.

There was a lack of options for Northern. TPE are not short of stock.

 

[liamf656]

Could the 180s that soon to be leaving EMR be sent to TPE, to replace some of the problematic loco-hauled stock?

Replace problematic loco hauled stock (easily convertible to bi-mode operation) with extremely problematic and much older DMUs? Looks like a non starter to me

 

[RobShipway]

As has I believe been mentioned in this thread and at the beginning of thread https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-180-adelantes-leaving-emr.242647/ it is more likely that they would go to Grand Central to be with the rest of the fleet of class 180 units, then to go to a train operator with no experience of the class 180 units. I also cannot see them going to Northern, even if their drivers have had previous experience driving the class 180's, as it has been too long since any Northern Drivers has driven a class 180 as it has been over 12 years.

 

[JonathanH]

it is more likely that they would go to Grand Central to be with the rest of the fleet of class 180 units, then to go to a train operator with no experience of the class 180 units

I think it is still unlikely that they go to Grand Central as leasing 14 units is likely to be more expensive than leasing 10 units, for the same level of service. The only way I see them going to Grand Central is if the leasing company offers the opportunity to make 10 'good' units out of the 14 as the scrapyard beckons for the EMR units.

 

[D365]

As has I believe been mentioned in this thread and at the beginning of thread https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-180-adelantes-leaving-emr.242647/ it is more likely that they would go to Grand Central to be with the rest of the fleet of class 180 units, then to go to a train operator with no experience of the class 180 units.

Who is deciding this?

 

[RobShipway]

I think it is still unlikely that they go to Grand Central as leasing 14 units is likely to be more expensive than leasing 10 units, for the same level of service. The only way I see them going to Grand Central is if the leasing company offers the opportunity to make 10 'good' units out of the 14 as the scrapyard beckons for the EMR units.

You are probably right about them being scrapped, but I think it is more likely they will go to Grand Central. Even if it is just the coaches from the class 180's from EMR, being added to the existing Grand Central units with the driving cars acting as unit spares.

Who is deciding this?

So you think that the class 180 units from EMR, will go to TPE then? Surely, it is better if the EMR units are moved, that they are moved to an Operator that has existing experience of operating the class 180 units.

 

[D365]

You are probably right about them being scrapped, but I think it is more likely they will go to Grand Central. Even if it is just the coaches from the class 180's from EMR, being added to the existing Grand Central units with the driving cars acting as unit spares.


So you think that the class 180 units from EMR, will go to TPE then? Surely, it is better if the EMR units are moved, that they are moved to an Operator that has existing experience of operating the class 180 units.

I'm not suggesting anything. Best I can tell, these are just your ideas.

 

[Driver068]

You are probably right about them being scrapped, but I think it is more likely they will go to Grand Central. Even if it is just the coaches from the class 180's from EMR, being added to the existing Grand Central units with the driving cars acting as unit spares.


So you think that the class 180 units from EMR, will go to TPE then? Surely, it is better if the EMR units are moved, that they are moved to an Operator that has existing experience of operating the class 180 units.

Surely 180s going to TPE would be a backwards step considering they have invested in 3 types of rolling stock in recent years. Also with rumours circulating that they now want to replace the 68s with electric due to the noise issues at the new Scarborough depot (This maybe far fetched railway rumours and are from word of mouth so may not be true)

Also taking into consideration where TPE may be come May 2023.

 

[RobShipway]

Surely 180s going to TPE would be a backwards step considering they have invested in 3 types of rolling stock in recent years. Also with rumours circulating that they now want to replace the 68s with electric due to the noise issues at the new Scarborough depot (This maybe far fetched railway rumours and are from word of mouth so may not be true)

Also taking into consideration where TPE may be come May 2023.

I am not suggesting that the class 180's go to TPE. I am suggesting that the EMR class 180's go to Grand Central so that you have the whole fleet under one operator.

TPE as you state have enough with at least 4 different types of trains with the class 185, Class 397, class 802 and loco-hauled trains. The loco-hauled trains would be better to be replaced either with more AT300 from Hitachi or more class 397 units to replace class 802 where the routes are all electric, so that the class 802 can then replace the loco-hauled trains.

 

[D365]

Also with rumours circulating that they now want to replace the 68s with electric due to the noise issues at the new Scarborough depot (This maybe far fetched railway rumours and are from word of mouth so may not be true)

Not just a rumour - First Group has expressed an interest in bi-mode locos to replace Class 57s and 68s.

 

[jackot]

If anyone is going to take on the EMR 180s it will either be Grand Central or the scrapman - In my view it is crazy to even speculate that anyone else would want them. Everything that could put a TOC off buying a train seems to be in full swing here; they are a tiny microfleet, they are woefully unreliable, and that is negating the whole financial situation of the railways right now.

 

[Driver068]

Not just a rumour - First Group has expressed an interest in bi-mode locos to replace Class 57s and 68s.

Good to know, cheers

 

[Energy]

Not just a rumour - First Group has expressed an interest in bi-mode locos to replace Class 57s and 68s.

They put out a tender. I wouldn't be suprised if not much came from it, the lease on mk5as at TPE ends in March and TPE has too much stock at the moment. As for cutting costs the mk5as are an obvious one to loose.

The night Riviera would be fine with a class 99, 93s maybe but they are a little weak.

180s wouldn't go to TPE, they have enough stock as is, id expect Grand Central short term or scrap.

 

[Pete_uk]

Take the intermediate carriages and refurbish them to be loco hauled as the new royal train.

 

[Spartacus]

Take the intermediate carriages and refurbish them to be loco hauled as the new royal train.

Charles might class that as a treasonable offence!

 

[Snow1964]

As has I believe been mentioned in this thread and at the beginning of thread https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-180-adelantes-leaving-emr.242647/ it is more likely that they would go to Grand Central to be with the rest of the fleet of class 180 units, then to go to a train operator with no experience of the class 180 units.

Seems logical even if some are only obtained as a source of spare parts and never operate again.

Although wouldn't rule out couple of sets being hired out short term if someone was temporarily short of stock, but not on a longer term basis

 

[Purple Train]

Send them to TfW - the punters would think them deserving of a Golden Spanner!

 

[RobShipway]

Seems logical even if some are only obtained as a source of spare parts and never operate again.

Although wouldn't rule out couple of sets being hired out short term if someone was temporarily short of stock, but not on a longer term basis

Send them to TfW - the punters would think them deserving of a Golden Spanner!

You have to remember, even though the ROSCO and TOC may require stock, I believe that Daft still might have a say as to whether they will allow stock to be moved? If Daft do have a say on which stock can be moved to which TOC, then we may have a situation where the EMR class 222's go to to Grand Central, the class 180's go to Cross Country and the Virgin class 221's go to Scotrail to replace the HST fleet there.

 

[43096]

You have to remember, even though the ROSCO and TOC may require stock, I believe that Daft still might have a say as to whether they will allow stock to be moved? If Daft do have a say on which stock can be moved to which TOC, then we may have a situation where the EMR class 222's go to to Grand Central, the class 180's go to Cross Country and the Virgin class 221's go to Scotrail to replace the HST fleet there.

Or we may not… As one example: why would XC take 180s when more 221s are the sensible (and available) option?

 

[Wyrleybart]

Or we may not… As one example: why would XC take 180s when more 221s are the sensible (and available) option?

A rumour I heard at work nearly three weeks ago was an XC LD Dvr was going to be doing some training for a GC BDI Dvr on class 221.

No idea if it had truth or not.

 

[Driver068]

Its more than likely some 180s will go GC at this present time as they are struggling with their fleet.
Can not imagine 222s will move over to GC however is has been bounded around 221s maybe going over to GC for the time being

 

[Energy]

You have to remember, even though the ROSCO and TOC may require stock, I believe that Daft still might have a say as to whether they will allow stock to be moved? If Daft do have a say on which stock can be moved to which TOC, then we may have a situation where the EMR class 222's go to to Grand Central, the class 180's go to Cross Country and the Virgin class 221's go to Scotrail to replace the HST fleet there.

The DfT have no say in the fleet of Grand Central (open access) or Scotrail (devolved to Scottish Government/Transport Scotland).

Grand Central will not change its fleet unless its to bimode or battery. The significant investment in staff training and maintanence wouldn't make sense to go from diesel 180s to diesel 222s.

 

[skyhigh]

Its more than likely some 180s will go GC at this present time as they are struggling with their fleet.
Can not imagine 222s will move over to GC however is has been bounded around 221s maybe going over to GC for the time being

Don't hold your breath on further 180s going to GC. The current situation with fleet availability isn't that bad compared to how poor it's been in the past.

 

[RobShipway]

The DfT have no say in the fleet of Grand Central (open access) or Scotrail (devolved to Scottish Government/Transport Scotland).

Grand Central will not change its fleet unless its to bimode or battery. The significant investment in staff training and maintanence wouldn't make sense to go from diesel 180s to diesel 222s.

A rumour I heard at work nearly three weeks ago was an XC LD Dvr was going to be doing some training for a GC BDI Dvr on class 221.

No idea if it had truth or not.

So if the rumour that Wyreleybart heard is true Energy, why would GC drivers need to be trained on class 221 units?

 

[Energy]

So if the rumour that Wyreleybart heard is true Energy, why would GC drivers need to be trained on class 221 units?

Its just a rumour, its likely that it isn't true. Grand Central's track access agreement runs out in December 2026.

 

[170UTD]

Have we got a dedicated date for when the 180s leave Etches Park for storage yet? Apart from 180113 as it might need to be repaired before hand back (unless otherwise agreed by the ROSCO)

 

[Wyrleybart]

Grand Central will not change its fleet unless its to bimode or battery. The significant investment in staff training and maintanance wouldn't make sense to go from diesel 180s to diesel 222s.

Except that 180s and 222s have the same engines - Cummins QSK19s