Why is the Boxing Day timetable so poor? I understand that engineering work takes place, but only airport trains and the (Extremely) odd one or two services seem to run - for example, one I used today, the Stansted Express - which goes through Stratford, Cheshunt and Broxbourne, not stopping today, with no NR alternatives... With Stratford in particular, this diversion and train not stopping is a bit laughable considering how busy Westfield Shopping Precinct must be right now.
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Boxing Day Trains
- Thread starter AlanFry1
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221129
Established Member
Here we go again....
pitdiver
Established Member
Let's stop this right now. Trains don't run on the 26th Dec.for various reasons that have been discussed countless times. End of Story.
This is an important issue and this year is worse than previous ones. It seems symbolic of the rail industry's lack of interest in the user and fare-payers. Many elderly and young people, not to mention essential workers need train services. I write as someone who worked every Christmas for many years, not through choice but because people needed the service. How can it be right that we expect nurses, shop workers, bus drivers, not to mention Network Rail and contractors to be at work but the railways serving the pubic for some reason won't?
Please respect that this is a forum and don't try to shut down important debate. Season's greetings!
Please respect that this is a forum and don't try to shut down important debate. Season's greetings!
pitdiver
Established Member
We have this debate every year please refer to previous posts and threads. I think you may find this has been discussed endlessly.
Staying at home is a nice idea but not an option for people that have to run the National health Service, the police and other services, people visiting the sick and elderly relatives, should they all stay at home or walk miles/pay for expensive taxis? Boxing Day is a busy day why can't the heavily subsidized railways be playing their part?
Already answered all us staff are out on the razz.
221129
Established Member
Because quite simply, they don't have to! I am contracted to be off on 2 days a year as are most if not all TOC staff.
You might expect all those to work. I only expect those to work if its in their contract...and only then if they are required.
Not round here they don't!
Gemz91
Member
All the train staff are at church on Christmas Day celebrating the birth of Jesus. The Vicar probably lives local to church so doesn't need to get the train there.
dk1
Veteran Member
Oh for Christ's sake let's not use that old roasted chestnut again (rolls eyes). Working the 25th/26th is NOT in my contract of employment as a train driver. If it was I'd be working. That ain't going to change anytime in the next decade.
The short answer is "because it's not in the franchise agreements, so the TOCs will only operate if there's a commercial return. They've decided there isn't so they won't".
The long answer - as already mentioned - is that this is discussed at length every year on here and ultimately it comes down to:
1. Who would pay for it?
2. It's not in staff contracts so how would you staff it?
My personal answer is that a limited service* should be provided (I was actually working in the train planning office which reintroduced it briefly in the late 1970s - even then the demand was there) but I think you'd be better employed lobbying your MP than arguing with anyone on here.
* The level of service would depend on a number of factors, including when Christmas - and the associated Bank Holidays fall.
dk1
Veteran Member
No doubt there are likely many rail staff here on the defensive for not working boxing day, whilst out today enjoying the services and retail opportunities available thanks to those in the real world going out to work today
Because they are contracted to maybe?
Do you not expect NHS workers to work or our armed forces to be trying to get some leave at home or the AA to be there to rescue people?
If you are saying that railways are not essential public services then lets have our subsidy and invest money back to spend elsewhere. For e your work is essential and contracts can be changed with agreement
If you are saying that railways are not essential public services then lets have our subsidy and invest money back to spend elsewhere. For e your work is essential and contracts can be changed with agreement
It is a shame that
No doubt there are likely many rail staff here on the defensive for not working boxing day, whilst out today enjoying the services and retail opportunities available thanks to those in the real world going out to work today
They're not "on the defensive". They're just pointing out the fact that they're not contracted to work on Boxing Day. Changing that would require a negotiated agreement.
(By the way, I'm [ex-] railway and was called in one Boxing Day. Voluntarily.)
221129
Established Member
Our contracts can be changed, but the price it would cost them means they don't want to.
dk1
Veteran Member
Great shame & NO is the answer.
There is a significant proven demand for local transport in cities on 26th December, for shopping and sporting events mostly.
A limited local bus service is usually offered to support this in most places, and light rail services and London Underground usually run.
A significant number of local trains do run on Merseyrail, to and from Glasgow and London Victoria, though some of these are bus replacement today. Chiltern Railways trialled something similar last year on the basis of serving shopping in Central London and at Bicester Village. It is being repeated this year apparently with financial support from the shopping centre owners.
Basically, local public transport services which are demand-responsive do offer a service on Boxing Day except national rail and the above exceptions.
The railway is however choosing to offer a comprehensive local train service in England (except the North East) on 1st January despite there being fewer potential customers for it than on boxing day. New Year's Day is not nearly as established as a big shopping or major sporting day that I am aware. In Greater Manchester there are many commercial bus services running on 26th December and no trains whatsoever. There are almost no buses running on 1st January but a full weekday timetable of local trains is running. This gives you some idea of how out of it the railway industry is. As far as English local trains are concerned, it would be an improvement to flip the situation, so there is a very limited service on New Year's Day but a good service on Boxing Day. It's not like early morning service, high frequencies or peak extras would be required on either day.
A limited local bus service is usually offered to support this in most places, and light rail services and London Underground usually run.
A significant number of local trains do run on Merseyrail, to and from Glasgow and London Victoria, though some of these are bus replacement today. Chiltern Railways trialled something similar last year on the basis of serving shopping in Central London and at Bicester Village. It is being repeated this year apparently with financial support from the shopping centre owners.
Basically, local public transport services which are demand-responsive do offer a service on Boxing Day except national rail and the above exceptions.
The railway is however choosing to offer a comprehensive local train service in England (except the North East) on 1st January despite there being fewer potential customers for it than on boxing day. New Year's Day is not nearly as established as a big shopping or major sporting day that I am aware. In Greater Manchester there are many commercial bus services running on 26th December and no trains whatsoever. There are almost no buses running on 1st January but a full weekday timetable of local trains is running. This gives you some idea of how out of it the railway industry is. As far as English local trains are concerned, it would be an improvement to flip the situation, so there is a very limited service on New Year's Day but a good service on Boxing Day. It's not like early morning service, high frequencies or peak extras would be required on either day.
dk1
Veteran Member
Loads of NHS staff rarely if ever work Christmas Day/ Boxing Day.
Try getting a GP appointment, or a prescription renewed, or a dentist appointment, or out-patients or an audiology appointment or ......
Statto
Established Member
Merseyrail is running some services today last trains about now though.
Lets be real please - loads of NHS staff work Christmas and Boxing day.
221129
Established Member
But still a minority.
NHS staff work as required to meet the needs of the service.
A concept many here are struggling to understand.
Thanks for all your responses, it is a shame that people from within the industry are so intemperate about using a forum to discuss improvements to their own industry. Saying that something could not be done because it is not in the contract is not really a sufficient answer as contracts can be changed over time (by agreement). A forum is meant to be for discussion not just shutting people up if they don't agree with you.
I am leaving this forum now as it has sadly confirmed my experience as an almost daily rail user that the industry lets itself down when it comes to even considering improvements for the public that pay for its service. Add that to the daily operational problems that we face....
i do agree with the colleague that lobbying those in power is probably a better use of energy but I think like most people I will just put up with a poor service and little prospect of improvements and sadly use my car whenever I can.
I wish you all well particularly those that work on the railways often in difficult circumstances.
I am leaving this forum now as it has sadly confirmed my experience as an almost daily rail user that the industry lets itself down when it comes to even considering improvements for the public that pay for its service. Add that to the daily operational problems that we face....
i do agree with the colleague that lobbying those in power is probably a better use of energy but I think like most people I will just put up with a poor service and little prospect of improvements and sadly use my car whenever I can.
I wish you all well particularly those that work on the railways often in difficult circumstances.
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