Borders Railway - Now Open

[Altnabreac]

One of life's certainties is that the SNP will claim the credit for this project when it opens, just as they did with the Airdrie-Bathgate reopening, despite both projects having completed their passage through Holyrood under the former Labour-Libdem coalition.

Politicians on all sides will all always claim credit for any project!

Christine Grahame however does deserve credit in this case as Borders Rail came very close to cancellation in 2007 and it was no small part down to her that it survived.

 

[fegguk]

Politicians on all sides will all always claim credit for any project!

Christine Grahame however does deserve credit in this case as Borders Rail came very close to cancellation in 2007 and it was no small part down to her that it survived.

I don't suppose she will share any credit with Scottish Borders Council if she does it will be a first.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Pretty much the same film clips.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-31442261

Not really - they each did their own thing on the day, the BBC crew (normally 4) and the one-person local independent operation which had their edited news item out 4 hours before. The BBC coverage was pretty poor considering the resources BBC News have at their disposal and that they were given priority by the organisers. Their junior reporter looked ill at ease compared to Paul Brownlee's performance in the "On Track" series episodes.
Auntie seems to be getting a bit past it these days.

 

[Mark62]

Why would the railway terminate at a village like Tweedbank. I do believe that there has been minimal population growth in the village for the last 20 years. Surely it would make more sense to have taken the line to the town of Melrose. It has a higher population, it's actually a town rather than a village and attracts a significant number of tourists in the summer. Tweedbank seems to have few attractions when compared to Melrose? I was in the borders recently and many people were asking the same questions. They seem unable to get any answers. But I don't suppose the headline grabbers at Holyrood really care much about that. After all, the borders line reopening has little to do with local needs! it's all about gaining political advantage and point scoring. There are much more deserving and larger communities further south that desperately need their stations to reopen.
How many villages in England with the same profile as tweedbank can expect a new line to terminate there?
It has taken over 25 years of campaigning to get Ilkeston station reopened. I remember in the 1970s when the campaign to reopen kenilworth station started. Has it opened yet? Of course not.
It is great that the borders line is reopening, if only it served the right communities. It is like the demigods at Holyrood stuck a pin in the map and it it ended up in an anonymous stagnant place like. Tweedbank.
How many people in this forum who applaud it's reopening have actually been to the area and spoken to local people? If they had they may just get a very different perspective on the whole situation.

 

[snowball]

Wasn't it something to do with Tweedbank being the furthest that could be done in a 1-hour journey, so any further would require extra units, and so be more expensive per train mile?

Also the next bit beyond Tweedbank will be hard to fit in and might require demolition of houses, due to the A6091.

 

[fegguk]

Why would the railway terminate at a village like Tweedbank. I do believe that there has been minimal population growth in the village for the last 20 years. Surely it would make more sense to have taken the line to the town of Melrose. It has a higher population, it's actually a town rather than a village and attracts a significant number of tourists in the summer. Tweedbank seems to have few attractions when compared to Melrose? I was in the borders recently and many people were asking the same questions. They seem unable to get any answers. But I don't suppose the headline grabbers at Holyrood really care much about that. After all, the borders line reopening has little to do with local needs! it's all about gaining political advantage and point scoring. There are much more deserving and larger communities further south that desperately need their stations to reopen.
How many villages in England with the same profile as tweedbank can expect a new line to terminate there?
It has taken over 25 years of campaigning to get Ilkeston station reopened. I remember in the 1970s when the campaign to reopen kenilworth station started. Has it opened yet? Of course not.
It is great that the borders line is reopening, if only it served the right communities. It is like the demigods at Holyrood stuck a pin in the map and it it ended up in an anonymous stagnant place like. Tweedbank.
How many people in this forum who applaud it's reopening have actually been to the area and spoken to local people? If they had they may just get a very different perspective on the whole situation.

If you search the thread you find a more complete explanation of why not Melrose. But basically there was no room for a carpark which is essential for a park a ride station which is what Tweedbank's main use will be, it's not just there to serve Tweedbank. It may have been just be a bit too far for timetable reason ie more than an hour from Edinburgh, to fit with a clock face pattern of turn around for departures. Its would have been much more expensive compared to the benefit. I live in the area and too be honest until quite recently many people locally were misinformed about the railway and are only now beginning to understand what it meant to do.

How far away from a railway station are the places you mention. I suspect a lot closer than most parts of the Central Borders will be until September

 

[Altnabreac]

Why would the railway terminate at a village like Tweedbank. I do believe that there has been minimal population growth in the village for the last 20 years. Surely it would make more sense to have taken the line to the town of Melrose. It has a higher population, it's actually a town rather than a village and attracts a significant number of tourists in the summer. Tweedbank seems to have few attractions when compared to Melrose? I was in the borders recently and many people were asking the same questions. They seem unable to get any answers. But I don't suppose the headline grabbers at Holyrood really care much about that. After all, the borders line reopening has little to do with local needs! it's all about gaining political advantage and point scoring. There are much more deserving and larger communities further south that desperately need their stations to reopen.
How many villages in England with the same profile as tweedbank can expect a new line to terminate there?
It has taken over 25 years of campaigning to get Ilkeston station reopened. I remember in the 1970s when the campaign to reopen kenilworth station started. Has it opened yet? Of course not.
It is great that the borders line is reopening, if only it served the right communities. It is like the demigods at Holyrood stuck a pin in the map and it it ended up in an anonymous stagnant place like. Tweedbank.
How many people in this forum who applaud it's reopening have actually been to the area and spoken to local people? If they had they may just get a very different perspective on the whole situation.

There are really 2 questions you are asking here:
1 Why did the railway extend beyond Galashiels?
2 Why didn't the railway extend beyond Tweedbank?

Q1 is easy - there is no room for a car park in Gala so a site was needed for Park & Ride for people from both Gala itself and Selkirk / Hawick / Kelso etc.

Tweedbank has space for parking and is conveniently located for the A7 for onward travel. The station would be there even if it was just a field. The village of Tweedbank is a bonus.

Q2 is a bit trickier. Melrose is actually a pretty small place (under 2,000 population), it's main employment site (the BGH) is nearer to Tweedbank than Melrose centre, the trackbed and station are tricky alignment wise, partially built on and not easy to have a terminus station at. Overall extending the line beyond Tweedbank would have cost a fair amount for small benefits further undermining an already marginal BCR.

So a scheme terminating at Tweedbank provided the best business case as it has room for a car park but relatively low costs.

 

[deltic08]

Why would the railway terminate at a village like Tweedbank. I do believe that there has been minimal population growth in the village for the last 20 years. Surely it would make more sense to have taken the line to the town of Melrose. It has a higher population, it's actually a town rather than a village and attracts a significant number of tourists in the summer. Tweedbank seems to have few attractions when compared to Melrose? I was in the borders recently and many people were asking the same questions. They seem unable to get any answers. But I don't suppose the headline grabbers at Holyrood really care much about that. After all, the borders line reopening has little to do with local needs! it's all about gaining political advantage and point scoring. There are much more deserving and larger communities further south that desperately need their stations to reopen.
How many villages in England with the same profile as tweedbank can expect a new line to terminate there?
It has taken over 25 years of campaigning to get Ilkeston station reopened. I remember in the 1970s when the campaign to reopen kenilworth station started. Has it opened yet? Of course not.
It is great that the borders line is reopening, if only it served the right communities. It is like the demigods at Holyrood stuck a pin in the map and it it ended up in an anonymous stagnant place like. Tweedbank.
How many people in this forum who applaud it's reopening have actually been to the area and spoken to local people? If they had they may just get a very different perspective on the whole situation.

There wasn't room at Galashiels due to short sightedly allowing ASDA to build a store on the station site years after the campaign to reopen started. As part of this development, Station Brae (bridge) was shortened thereby restricting alignment the track could take creating a very restricted tortuous single line route.

Apart from the Leader of Borders Council coincidentally living in Tweedbank, this was the best site for large carpark, two platform station and within walking distance of Sir Walter Scotts House at Abbottsford and Borders General Hospital.

Melrose bypass is built on Melrose station site with insufficient room for car parking or station and just extending to here from Tweedbank would be proportionally more expensive compared to north of Tweedbank.

Extension will come but I have no idea of timescale.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Not sure if this was eventually addressed with the redesigned station, but a buried 132kV cable under the solum just beyond the station site at Tweedbank was one of the reasons that no attempt was made to go further. There was a reference in post no 211.
Another photo

 

[Altfish]

Not sure if this was eventually addressed with the redesigned station, but a buried 132kV cable under the solum just beyond the station site at Tweedbank was one of the reasons that no attempt was made to go further. There was a reference in post no 211.
Another photo

Similar cables are routinely moved, if the passenger numbers are positive that cable will not stop further development of the railway.

 

[Altnabreac]

I went back to the Waverley Bill Committee's deliberations from 2005 as I know the extension to Melrose was discussed at that point as Waverley Route Trust were in favour of a version of the scheme that had 2tph to Gorebridge and 1tph semi fast to Melrose.

The Promoter (at that point Scottish Borders Council) and their consultants Halcrow had investigated an alternative scheme that ran to Melrose and Charlesfield (South of Newtown St Boswells) because Melrose wasn't suitable for a terminus but concluded it wasn't viable.

Charlesfield

The study also considered the potential benefits of extending the service to Charlesfield. However, demand forecasting suggested that patronage was unlikely to justify the additional investment required. The proposed location has, at present, few residential units within the `demand footprint' and even with potential housing development in the area, possibly leading to the construction of some 2,000 houses it would not justify the additional Capital expenditure for the 10km line extension this station would necessitate. It is accepted that such a station would serve the communities of Newtown and St Boswells and St Boswells and may be justified in time. (following the general rule of thumb that at least 5,000 houses are required to generate sufficient patronage for a station).

In addition, given that the distance between the two locations, Tweedbank and Charlesfield, is only 10 kilometres, there is a risk of significant abstraction of patronage from the park and ride facility at Tweedbank, thereby undermining the viability of that facility.

 

[theageofthetra]

Was speaking to a lady the other night in Edinburgh who lives along the rebuilt line (sorry can't recall the town) She says that their town is experiencing property speculation as it will become a new commuter area. What sort of onward transport will be available from Tweedbank- car hire buses etc? Was thinking of doing the Melrose 7's one year.

 

[cjt0131]

for those debating WHY TWEEDBANK let me as a local of the galashiels area make these comments

1) tweedbank is NOT a village it is a housing estate and industrial estate on the outskirts of gala and it is part of galashiels

2) there would have been space for parking in galashiels if it had not been for the shortsightedness of the council who have a leader more interested in tweedbank and Melrose than any other part of the borders

3) onward transport from tweedbank will prove to be a problem as it will mean cooperation altering bus times with the railways main rival "first bus"
taxi operators may be reluctant to base themselves at tweedbank and phoning a gala taxi could mean a lot of dead mileage for them for a relatively short journey fare so they may be reluctant to come pick you up

to the poster who was considering Melrose sevens that's easy just walk from tweedbank if its a nice day

 

[Altnabreac]

Was speaking to a lady the other night in Edinburgh who lives along the rebuilt line (sorry can't recall the town) She says that their town is experiencing property speculation as it will become a new commuter area. What sort of onward transport will be available from Tweedbank- car hire buses etc? Was thinking of doing the Melrose 7's one year.

Melrose is easy walking distance from Tweedbank so I'd just walk. Thoroughly recommend coming down for the sevens, it's a great day out.

The bus connections are planned to be more at Galashiels where the railway and bus stations are next to each other.

 

[theageofthetra]

Which will be the first Melrose 7's the railway will be open for? I wonder if any special excursions will run for it.

 

[Altnabreac]

Which will be the first Melrose 7's the railway will be open for? I wonder if any special excursions will run for it.

Melrose 7s is mid April so it will be 2016.

Suspect it will be busy as the capacity isn't huge at the Greenyards. I've always just bought tickets on the day but if planning on going next year I think I'd buy in advance just in case as it might be busier with the railway open, especially the first year.

 

[deltic08]

Which will be the first Melrose 7's the railway will be open for? I wonder if any special excursions will run for it.

No room in the working timetable. Maybe strengthen existing trains.

 

[Leki]

Why would the railway terminate at a village like Tweedbank. I do believe that there has been minimal population growth in the village for the last 20 years. Surely it would make more sense to have taken the line to the town of Melrose. It has a higher population, it's actually a town rather than a village and attracts a significant number of tourists in the summer. Tweedbank seems to have few attractions when compared to Melrose? I was in the borders recently and many people were asking the same questions. They seem unable to get any answers. But I don't suppose the headline grabbers at Holyrood really care much about that. After all, the borders line reopening has little to do with local needs! it's all about gaining political advantage and point scoring. There are much more deserving and larger communities further south that desperately need their stations to reopen.
How many villages in England with the same profile as tweedbank can expect a new line to terminate there?
It has taken over 25 years of campaigning to get Ilkeston station reopened. I remember in the 1970s when the campaign to reopen kenilworth station started. Has it opened yet? Of course not.
It is great that the borders line is reopening, if only it served the right communities. It is like the demigods at Holyrood stuck a pin in the map and it it ended up in an anonymous stagnant place like. Tweedbank.
How many people in this forum who applaud it's reopening have actually been to the area and spoken to local people? If they had they may just get a very different perspective on the whole situation.

From a map it's quite easy to realise the benefits of Tweedbank as a Park and Ride station - just off the trunk road network and close enough to both the A7 and A68 to catch traffic from towns to the south.

A Galashiels terminus would not be good for people from the east making the trip and to go one more station to Melrose would require at least seven structures while not serving many people! The reality is likely that most people west of the Greenyards would drive to Tweedbank rather than walk up the road. No buses could serve the station directly (as it's up a narrow hill) and there's no parking whatsoever.

Tweedbank has actually grown considerably in the last few years and has scope to grow and adjust to the benefits of the railway opening.

There wasn't room at Galashiels due to short sightedly allowing ASDA to build a store on the station site years after the campaign to reopen started. As part of this development, Station Brae (bridge) was shortened thereby restricting alignment the track could take creating a very restricted tortuous single line route.

Not condoning turning over the town for supermarkets, but that's not quite right. The old Station Brae was a structural liability (permanent 17T limit) and would have had to go regardless. Asda was planned along with the roads realignment which was built with the railway in mind. A huge park and ride in the centre of town was deliberately avoided (although Gala now supermarket car parks instead, but that's another story).

onward transport from tweedbank will prove to be a problem as it will mean cooperation altering bus times with the railways main rival "first bus"
taxi operators may be reluctant to base themselves at tweedbank and phoning a gala taxi could mean a lot of dead mileage for them for a relatively short journey fare so they may be reluctant to come pick you up

Taxis and bus operators will go where the passengers are. Anyone heading to Selkirk will likely change at Gala and the Perryman's services going towards the A68 (60, 67 & 68) are council tendered and are likely to be altered to fit in. I'm sure others (just First's H1/2/3?) will find commercial benefits to stopping off in Tweedbank.

 

[fegguk]

Ballasting at Bowshank today

http://youtu.be/rd_uXN3eTKY

 

[cjt0131]

Taxis and bus operators will go where the passengers are. Anyone heading to Selkirk will likely change at Gala and the Perryman's services going towards the A68 (60, 67 & 68) are council tendered and are likely to be altered to fit in. I'm sure others (just First's H1/2/3?) will find commercial benefits to stopping off in Tweedbank.

I have been involved in transport in the borders for over 20 years

to say that bus and taxi operators will go where the passengers are is in a way correct--which means galashiels
those passengers heading to tweedbank who don't have their car waiting for them will have a bigger problem

saying that because some bus services are council tendered and will be altered to fit is a rather simplistic view and one which the bus companies I am sure will have something to say about that

there has been major changes in bus travel in the borders in recent years and some major changes to come and unless the council have deep pockets to subsidise altered routes the bus companies will not alter timetables for the sake of a few passengers

with regard to the taxi operators --- any increase in dead mileage will seriously reduce their profits and it should also be noted that MR TAX MAN does not understand the concept of dead mileage

 

[deltic08]

Not condoning turning over the town for supermarkets, but that's not quite right. The old Station Brae was a structural liability (permanent 17T limit) and would have had to go regardless. Asda was planned along with the roads realignment which was built with the railway in mind. A huge park and ride in the centre of town was deliberately avoided (although Gala now supermarket car parks instead, but that's another story).

I was told by someone in Gala, who should know, that planning approval for Asda was only given if they paid for a new Station Brae, I would like to know who authorised a bridge only three meters short of a full double track width?

 

[cjt0131]

I was told by someone in Gala, who should know, that planning approval for Asda was only given if they paid for a new Station Brae, I would like to know who authorised a bridge only three meters short of a full double track width?

you are partly correct

asda did agree to pay a substantial amount towards the cost of the inner relief road---but NOT specifically to build a new station brae

 

[fegguk]

to say that bus and taxi operators will go where the passengers are is in a way correct--which means galashiels
those passengers heading to tweedbank who don't have their car waiting for them will have a bigger problem

................

with regard to the taxi operators --- any increase in dead mileage will seriously reduce their profits and it should also be noted that MR TAX MAN does not understand the concept of dead mileage

Getting off at Gala and taking a bus or taxis from there would be the intended option rather than going to Tweedbank if you don't have a car waiting there. Tweedbank is really only intended for locals and car users. Though there are some buses services there these all start or go through Gala as does nearly every other bus service in the area.

 

[deltic08]

Ballasting at Bowshank today

http://youtu.be/rd_uXN3eTKY

Having witnessed and photographed the rail train on the down line in Bowshank Tunnel my estimation of seeing it again in Galashiels was one day out. It was already on Currie Road bridge when I arrived.

I would like to photograph the ballast train in Buckholmeside or Ladhope Vale. Can you please give an estimate as I can only afford one day off to travel up?

 

[Fozzie49]

Ballast train at Bowshank area again today (thur).

 

[fegguk]

Having witnessed and photographed the rail train on the down line in Bowshank Tunnel my estimation of seeing it again in Galashiels was one day out. It was already on Currie Road bridge when I arrived.

I would like to photograph the ballast train in Buckholmeside or Ladhope Vale. Can you please give an estimate as I can only afford one day off to travel up?

The ballasting is not being carried out in a simple sequence A to B they seem to move up a down the line depending on what other activities are taking place. I was lucky to come across the train yesterday, it eluded me in the morning, it must have been somewhere not visible from the A7 when I past. I think this is the last week it running for a while check out the real time train website enter Newcraighall turnback as the location as this is where they enter and leave the network.

 

[deltic08]

The ballasting is not being carried out in a simple sequence A to B they seem to move up a down the line depending on what other activities are taking place. I was lucky to come across the train yesterday, it eluded me in the morning, it must have been somewhere not visible from the A7 when I past. I think this is the last week it running for a while check out the real time train website enter Newcraighall turnback as the location as this is where they enter and leave the network.

Ok, thank you for explaining.

 

[cjt0131]

Getting off at Gala and taking a bus or taxis from there would be the intended option rather than going to Tweedbank if you don't have a car waiting there. Tweedbank is really only intended for locals and car users. Though there are some buses services there these all start or go through Gala as does nearly every other bus service in the area.

I agree with you

the main reason I posted as I did was to refute the rather uninformed claims by an earlier poster who may or may not live in the borders but seems to have little knowledge of the "real borders"

 

[L&Y Robert]

Does the engineering traffic move so slowly over the entire line? What is the speed limit? I imagine the ballast train would trundle southward at, say 25 or 30 mph to begin with, and slow down in the area of operations. How are these movements controlled? Radio links I suppose, but who's "The Guv'nor"? Where is he sited? It wouldn't do to have the ballast train coming in contact with, say, the welding machine, would it? It's a real railway, after all.

 

[fegguk]

The limit is 5 mph until they hand over to network rail in May. I imagine such slow speed means other control measures are less critical.