Bombardier EDMU

[MCR247]

I like both. A button you can press with your hand is helpful, but having a thing that you can stand on is good. So having both like 222s would be a good thing.

I wish on all trains you could have the very useful feature of when you are moving carriages and you open the door leading to the rubber thing between carriages, the door at the other end opens! It saves you having to stop again!

Do any trains have sensors where they don't try to close if they are blocked?

 

[route:oxford]

Also, the door push buttons are awfully high!

Oddly enough, I often find that push-buttons are never high enough.

I appreciate that you are referring to external push-buttons to open the doors, but I find that the push buttons to open internal doors are often far too low.

Being over 6'0" tall, it would be perfect if a door open button for internal doors were to be placed around shoulder height (in addition to the current button for children and mobility impaired). They are currently in a most inconvenient location when the doors are closing/closed when standing immediately adjacent.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Well... a logical solution may be to have duplicate buttons at different heights? This is done on new buildings so that disabled visitors in a wheelchair can open a door without stretching up while the able visitors don't have to bend down. Should be easy enough to incorporate into a train door circuit?

 

[Daimler]

I prefer floor sensors, sick of the doors on the Pendolinos and Voyagers taking it upon themselves to close as I'm going through them. The Meridians have it sort of right with a floor pedal for opening the doors when you have luggage.

I prefer electronic reservations, the tickets can get discarded or removed by an opportunist seat thief.

In theory, electronic reservations are a great idea. However, the ones on the Voyagers and Pendolinos don't really work - as I'm sure anyone who's ever travelled without a reservation on a well-filled 390/220/221 will know, you have to go right up to each reservation display (and sometimes even wait for it to scroll across!) before you know whether or not that seat is reserved - on a busy train, this is not much fun - especially when carrying luggage, and when other people are trying to find seats behind you.

Paper reservations enable you to just scan down the carriage in order to find an available seat. Of course, that isn't foolproof either - seats may have reservations that do not apply to 'your' leg of the journey, and closer examination is needed to find out whether or not this is the case.

The best solution - as I think has been discussed before on this forum - would be some kind of green/yellow/red LED system above each seat, denoting whether a seat is free/occupied for part of the train's journey/occupied respectively.

 

[Geezertronic]

...as I'm sure anyone who's ever travelled without a reservation on a well-filled 390/220/221 will know, you have to go right up to each reservation display (and sometimes even wait for it to scroll across!)

Not on the 390s, they are more visible and do not scroll compared to the 220/221s. I find you cannot see them if they are not backlit but I assume that when that happens it is the TMs fault for not enabling them properly

 

[junglejames]

Also, with these electronic reservations, it was supposed to be that you would always have a seat reservation no matter when you got your ticket. You could turn up 5mins before the train arrived, book a ticket and reserve a seat. Do they do this?
This was my main thing against them. What if your on a fully open ticket (without a reservation for the return leg), and you decide not to reserve a seat when you get to the station either because a- The queue is too long, or b- you still cant decide whether to get one train, or the train 10mins later. Or if you have a Rover, and dont know which direction you are going to travel in (its going to be a last sec decision depending on whether its a voyager or pendo) and how you feel when the train arrives.
So you get on the train without a reservation. Find a seat not reserved, then at the next stop, you find it has suddenly been reserved for someone getting on there.

As i say though, not sure if Virgin actually went ahead with this plan or not.

Still, cant stand the electronic reservations as they are too difficult to read.

 

[Daimler]

Not on the 390s, they are more visible and do not scroll compared to the 220/221s. I find you cannot see them if they are not backlit but I assume that when that happens it is the TMs fault for not enabling them properly

I don't think you've quite understood me - upon entering the coach, the great weakness with the 390s is that you cannot see - at a glance - which seats are reserved for at least some part of the journey and which are not (from a distance of several rows of seats, you can't read the displays, backlit or not). This is not a problem with paper reservations - hence the idea of using LED lights above each seat, easily visible from any part of the carriage.

 

[MCR247]

So does anyone think a system where like someone said you have an LED display above the seats using a red/orange/green system, and then on that thing above the seats where the number is displayed, you have a little LED lit circle with the colour that applies to that seat?

So red, if it is reserved from this station
Orange if it is reserved later in the journey
Green if it is available for the whole journey

 

[Geezertronic]

So does anyone think a system where like someone said you have an LED display above the seats using a red/orange/green system, and then on that thing above the seats where the number is displayed, you have a little LED lit circle with the colour that applies to that seat?

So red, if it is reserved from this station
Orange if it is reserved later in the journey
Green if it is available for the whole journey

I think the LED idea would work perfectly with an improved version of the 390 Matrix screen (i.e. no scrolling like the 220/221s, better text and lighting) so at least if the LED was Orange then the matrix screen would tell you when the seat is reserved from

 

[Kingfisher200262]

I think the LED idea would work perfectly with an improved version of the 390 Matrix screen (i.e. no scrolling like the 220/221s, better text and lighting) so at least if the LED was Orange then the matrix screen would tell you when the seat is reserved from

This sounds like quite a neat idea. Something else that has often occurred to me is the apparent disconnect between station and train as far as capacity is concerned. It should be perfectly feasible, particularly on long distance services, for passengers without seat reservations to be directed by some display/s on the platform towards the parts of the train that have the most available seats.

I would have thought this might help to improve dwell times considerably.

 

[tbtc]

This sounds like quite a neat idea. Something else that has often occurred to me is the apparent disconnect between station and train as far as capacity is concerned. It should be perfectly feasible, particularly on long distance services, for passengers without seat reservations to be directed by some display/s on the platform towards the parts of the train that have the most available seats.

I would have thought this might help to improve dwell times considerably.

Agreed.

I know that a five coach Voyager will have an "unreserved" Coach B. However, I don't know whetehr the one I am waiting for will be four or five coaches (four coach ones don't have a "Coach B"), or which way round the train is running (e.g. am I wanting to wait on the platform towards the front or towards the back)...

(some stations say "First Class towards the rear" on the screens, but not all, and that's not always guaranteed to be correct)

Then again, if you are going down the approach of addressing that disconnect, then I wish trains were like the Supertram in Sheffield, where patterns on the platform show exactly where the doors will be, so people know where to queue...

I like MCR247's idea too

 

[Kingfisher200262]

Then again, if you are going down the approach of addressing that disconnect, then I wish trains were like the Supertram in Sheffield, where patterns on the platform show exactly where the doors will be, so people know where to queue...

Unfortunately, most of the rail network is not a closed system, with one type of rolling stock using it. The platforms at most stations would be like a patchwork quilt if they had to be marked to accommodate 20 metre / 23 metre, end doors / 1/3 - 2/3 doors.

 

[tbtc]

Unfortunately, most of the rail network is not a closed system, with one type of rolling stock using it. The platforms at most stations would be like a patchwork quilt if they had to be marked to accommodate 20 metre / 23 metre, end doors / 1/3 - 2/3 doors.

Yeah, and I know it'd never work in reality, but seeing the way the Jubilee Line extension works in London (where people know where the door is going to arrive on the platform) would speed up journeys at some stations.

It still amazes/ infuriates me to see some people running a long way along platforms when trains arrive (and lengthening the "dwell" at the station)

 

[Kingfisher200262]

Yeah, and I know it'd never work in reality, but seeing the way the Jubilee Line extension works in London (where people know where the door is going to arrive on the platform) would speed up journeys at some stations.

It still amazes/ infuriates me to see some people running a long way along platforms when trains arrive (and lengthening the "dwell" at the station)

One of the problems is that you never know where the first class will land at the station. I regularly use the West Anglia from Bishop's Stortford and it's a complete lottery as to where the first will be, with the mix of different variants of 317 that operate the route.

Even on inter city routes, sets fail to get turned after maintenance so often these days (is it just laziness or is there increased pressure on depots?) that it's no longer possible to be sure that the first will be at the London end, and on an eleven car set, it's a heck of a walk from one end to the other when standard is crammed, hence the skirmish when a train's pulling in and the extended dwell time.

We reap what we sow I'm afraid.

 

[starrymarkb]

FGW are good at announcing reverse formations. On the platform displays it will say "Please Note: Train in Reverse formation - First class at REAR"

 

[jopsuk]

at Cambridge in the morning peak 1st class location is displayed for most West Anglia services, seems to get displayed further down the line where I get off too. There isn't though really a "normal" or "reverse" formation, even for single units of one sub-class, on the line though. Bit of a lottery as to what you're actually getting for 1st as well, but that's another matter.

Do FGW HSTs often end up in reverse formation? Unless there's engineering works on, what "normal" situation sees a set turn around? Of the "Intercity" operators, it is really only XC surely that encounter problems with the fomration direction surely?

(still want to see Cambridge display 1st class location for the 0745 FCC service- formed of three networkers each with first class in both driving coaches- it'd be a lengthy entry...)

 

[MCR247]

Not really, 390s can be turned in Birmingham and ECs at Newcastle

 

[Crossforth]

Not really, 390s can be turned in Birmingham and ECs at Newcastle

EC though only tend to be the wrong way round during engineering works though

 

[MCR247]

Not really, I've been on two sets that have been turned at Newcastle for some reason :/ No engineering work

 

[krus_aragon]

Do FGW HSTs often end up in reverse formation? Unless there's engineering works on, what "normal" situation sees a set turn around? Of the "Intercity" operators, it is really only XC surely that encounter problems with the fomration direction surely?

The ~0804 FGW from Cardiff to Swansea is invariably in reverse formation as it comes from London via Temple Meads. It then gets reversed
at Llandore before coming back.

 

[Failed Unit]

Not really, I've been on two sets that have been turned at Newcastle for some reason :/ No engineering work

I have known sets turned at Newcastle for "trivial" reason like a defective window wiper. At least the set can stay in service for that trip but I guess the depot must fix it before it returns from London / Edinburgh.

On the MML any train via Nottingham gets reversed. Likewise London - Leeds via hambleton will result in a set facing the wrong way if it returns via Leeds. It is rare on east coast used to be common on Mml.

On FCC it is rare for sets to be reversed now. Take a look at the 365s and bins they are nearly all in the same direction. Same with the 313s take a look at hornsey on a weekend. Not sure where FCC would turn trains if they wanted.

 

[Kingfisher200262]

I have known sets turned at Newcastle for "trivial" reason like a defective window wiper. At least the set can stay in service for that trip but I guess the depot must fix it before it returns from London / Edinburgh.

That's a very good point. Other reasons for turning could be failed headlight, cracked windscreen, defective cab air con and so on.

My earlier point was that if there were better interaction between train and station (God knows, with modern IT systems, it should be possible), advance information could be made available to inform passengers intending to board, where most vacant seats are and where the First Class accommodation is.

Simple bits of technology can make life so much easier for the operator. For example, just as there is a load sensor in your car seat, which is linked to the seat belt and puts up an audible / visual warning to remind you to fasten your seat belt, so the same device can be used in train seats to transmit data regarding the number of seats occupied in each carriage.

All CSRE's products will incorporate this feature, which is very reliable (when did you last see one fail in a car?), costs pence per seat and has the potential to be so useful, but in terms of recording passenger loadings and passing info to the station operator for dwell time improvement.

 

[route:oxford]

Simple bits of technology can make life so much easier for the operator. For example, just as there is a load sensor in your car seat, which is linked to the seat belt and puts up an audible / visual warning to remind you to fasten your seat belt, so the same device can be used in train seats to transmit data regarding the number of seats occupied in each carriage.

That will be the same sensor that in my car goes "bong - bong - bong" and flashes up a seatbelt warning when I deposit a gym bag and winter coat on the passenger seat...

There is no doubt that it would be useful - it would need active monitoring by on-train staff though to ensure that luggage and personal belongings were not stowed on passenger seats. This in turn would require more generous provison for passenger luggage than is currently provided in long-distance units.

 

[Crossforth]

That will be the same sensor that in my car goes "bong - bong - bong" and flashes up a seatbelt warning when I deposit a gym bag and winter coat on the passenger seat...

There is no doubt that it would be useful - it would need active monitoring by on-train staff though to ensure that luggage and personal belongings were not stowed on passenger seats. This in turn would require more generous provison for passenger luggage than is currently provided in long-distance units.

Also, how would you count people who are left standing or who choose to stand rather than sit?

 

[jopsuk]

Not really, 390s can be turned in Birmingham and ECs at Newcastle

But does that happen a lot? XC, due to having routes with reversals etc, understandably have formation orientation issues. Do Pendolinos often turn around in the course of normal operation?

East Coast rarely turn around, and then they use the facilities at newcastle to correct it ASAP

 

[MCR247]

Suppose not often. EMT though, I forgot about them!

I don't actually think they have a way the first class is meant to be facing!

 

[Wyvern]

Suppose not often. EMT though, I forgot about them!

I don't actually think they have a way the first class is meant to be facing!

Always used to be at the London end so the toffs didn't have so far to walk at St Pancras

 

[MCR247]

But it never is with all of the sets that get turned at Nottingham!

 

[LE Greys]

Always used to be at the London end so the toffs didn't have so far to walk at St Pancras

Always used to be in the middle for similar reasons (not so far to the entrance/footbridge/subway).

 

[MCR247]

Middle?