Boarding as doors are closing

[ChewChewTrain]

A few times lately, I’ve witnessed passengers boarding trains as the doors are closing and ignoring platform staff shouting at them not to, with no obvious repercussions.

What are people’s opinions of these passengers? Would anyone here ever board as doors were closing, and, if so, would a shout from staff make them reconsider?

Are these passengers breaking any byelaws? Do they ever get into trouble or cause serious incidents?

 

[hexagon789]

A few times lately, I’ve witnessed passengers boarding trains as the doors are closing and ignoring platform staff shouting at them not to, with no obvious repercussions.

What are people’s opinions of these passengers? Would anyone here ever board as doors were closing, and, if so, would a shout from staff make them reconsider?

Are these passengers breaking any byelaws? Do they ever get into trouble or cause serious incidents?

Obstructing automatic doors is certainly against the byelaws, yes.

I suppose in theory a trap-and-drag incident could happen.

 

[Thirteen]

It's common on the Tube, I don't see the point myself of trying to do it as you risk injuring yourself.

I've seen people try and do with the PSD on the Elizabeth Line which seems like a fool's errand.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Obstructing automatic doors is certainly against the byelaws, yes.

I suppose in theory a trap-and-drag incident could happen.

Only if the guard/DOO driver isn't paying attention and the obstruction is too small for the interlock to pick it up.

 

[Sheffcaster202]

This is a massive bug bare of mine, especially when they’re waiting for friends or even holding the doors

A lot of traction has sensors to detect this and the doors will stop but a huge amount don’t on the legacy fleets and people don’t realise the ramifications of this

Obviously protecting people from injury comes first but damage to the units, delays/cancellations, new door test if someone is trapped or door fails. There are dispatch processes in place to protect people but there are many trap and drag stories and some are horrific

I’ve seen a mum run across the foot crossing at Penistone, slam herself in the doors to hold open as dad then runs over crossing with a pushchair and their child, no regard for the crossing and if a train is coming, jamming the doors and the danger they both put themselves and the unwilling child in

As for the trouble they get in, it’s pretty limited to ‘advice and guidance’ in most circumstances for me as most stations I go to are unstaffed, self dispatching and BTP/security have a lot bigger things to deal with, it’s usually just a case of apologies or being called a jobsworth and trying to educate people (add in door tests, paperwork, reporting etc)

 

[zwk500]

What are people’s opinions of these passengers? Would anyone here ever board as doors were closing, and, if so, would a shout from staff make them reconsider?

I'd probably say there's a difference between hopping on as the hustler alarms sound and just smashing yourself in the gap when you've obviously not made it. I personally don't think a shout from staff makes any difference.

Do they ever get into trouble or cause serious incidents?

Yes, people slip and fall in gaps between platforms or get dragged along the train every now and so often.

 

[43066]

A few times lately, I’ve witnessed passengers boarding trains as the doors are closing and ignoring platform staff shouting at them not to, with no obvious repercussions.

What are people’s opinions of these passengers? Would anyone here ever board as doors were closing, and, if so, would a shout from staff make them reconsider?

Are these passengers breaking any byelaws? Do they ever get into trouble or cause serious incidents?

Not ideal to do this - some do get hurt, occasionally trap and drags take place. It’s more by luck than judgment that more incidents don’t take place.

Only if the guard/DOO driver isn't paying attention and the obstruction is too small for the interlock to pick it up.

So quite easily in other words.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

I certainly lambast anyone who uses force to open/hold doors that are closing. Only once have the doors then failed unfortunately, but the culprit was made aware that they had broken the door and that the train may be cancelled (it wasn't).

Runners that come into contact with the train after doors are closed are more of an issue.

 

[RJ]

People generally don’t seem bothered if it doesn’t hinder the progress of the train. This guy must have been in a hurry though.

Instagram

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[Sheffcaster202]

Runners that come into contact with the train after doors are closed are more of an issue.

I hate this…had to stop the train 3 times in as many months for this and being safe and stopping usually means whoever it is thinks you’re going to let them on!

 

[SCDR_WMR]

I hate this…had to stop the train 3 times in as many months for this and being safe and stopping usually means whoever it is thinks you’re going to let them on!

Thankfully I've never needed to stop the train, but I certainly wouldn't be letting them on afterwards!

I've had dispatch at Euston aborted just prior to the RA a few times though

 

[Sheffcaster202]

I've had dispatch at Euston aborted just prior to the RA a few times though

The routes I work we only get dispatched at Leeds and the dispatchers there are amazing for keeping people back…where the loud voice comes from when you look at the person is a mystery but they’re always great for it

 

[Thirteen]

For metro services where frequency is better, it is common but does it ever happen on say Euston to Manchester or King's Cross to Edinburgh, I admit I always go early to stations when making the long distance journey.

 

[hexagon789]

Only if the guard/DOO driver isn't paying attention and the obstruction is too small for the interlock to pick it up.

I did say 'in theory' and not dissimilar trap-and-drags have occasionally occurred.

 

[43066]

The issues raised above are a good reasons for taking platform displays down a couple of minutes before departure, as happens at most (all?) London terminals these days.

Unfortunately our trains still show the destination on the front and rear!

 

[Ashley Hill]

Last minute punters are now getting in the habit of standing within the platform train interface waiting to be let on should the doors have shut. They will then stay there as they know the train shouldn’t leave with them there and no manner of shouting will persuade them to move. It’s often just easier to reopen and let them on. Passenger 1 Guard 0.

 

[zwk500]

The issues raised above are a good reasons for taking platform displays down a couple of minutes before departure, as happens at most (all?) London terminals these days.

Unfortunately our trains still show the destination on the front and rear!

We also still show actual departure time, rather than other countries (notably US) practice of advertising it 1 minute early.

 

[bramling]

Only if the guard/DOO driver isn't paying attention and the obstruction is too small for the interlock to pick it up.

Which is a non-zero possibility, even though it’s not meant to happen. The monitors used are not great, and this is certainly something to bear in mind.

 

[181]

I did it a few years ago, more or less without meaning to. I was trying to make a connection from the bay platform (4?) at the north-west corner of Leamington Spa to an XC train from the main up platform (3?) -- a fairly tight connection (7 minutes if I remember rightly), but one suggested by a journey planner. The incoming train was late and I knew making the connection would be touch and go, so when the doors opened and my train was still there just across the platform with the doors still open I ran for it; presumbly the hustle alarm sounded but I don't remember noticing it, just being lightly pushed on the shoulder by the door as it began to close. I was mildly reprimanded by the guard when he came round checking tickets; I apologised, while pointing out that I'd saved the railway a delay repay payment, and that was the end of it.

Not being the argumentative type, I didn't say anything about the possible risks of dispatching a train when another one is arriving just across the platform, and in any case depending on where he was along the platform it may not have been obvious to him.

It's possible that the fact that I was travelling on an Advance ticket might have been relevant -- I know that if you miss a connection you should be able to get on the next train of the same TOC without a problem (and in this case the TOC restriction wouldn't have added any further delay), but there might have been a semi-conscious feeling that getting on the booked train would avoid any risk of hassle. Although I wouldn't want to encourage over-zealous health and safety, I wonder whether anyone has ever done a risk assessment of this aspect of Advances.

 

[kristiang85]

As a passenger it definitely annoys me, especially on the tube where another train is generally along in two minutes. But there's no excuse really to ignore closing door alarms and potentially seriously delay a train. The people who try to hold doors open for their mates just give me the feeling that they think they are far more important than anybody else.

 

[Horizon22]

This has always been something of an issue, but either a) we're all getting old and miserable and it's been going on for ages or b) this is part of a general trend of behaviour post-lockdown which goes along with not listening to announcements, fare evasion, phones on loud on trains and other general anti-social / selfish behaviour in public settings.

It certainly puts my teeth on edge a bit, and I imagine DOO drivers are certainly concerned about this, especially after the initial check has been done to close doors. Luckily, there should always be a second train safety check.

 

[BJames]

The issues raised above are a good reasons for taking platform displays down a couple of minutes before departure, as happens at most (all?) London terminals these days.

Unfortunately our trains still show the destination on the front and rear!

I noticed at St Pancras that they now pull the barriers across e.g. Plat 1 and 2 just before departure (unadvertised from the boards 2 mins before departure but the barriers seem to be more 1 min before) - that way people physically cannot attempt to board. Usually results in good timing for departure.

I think Liverpool Street might remove them 1 minute before departure rather than 2, at least on the Overground. I can't really remember but will remember to check next time I pass through.

My take is I'm very unbothered if someone is jumping on as the doors are closing and I'm always glad to see someone just make it if its a less frequent service. Holding the doors open on e.g. Victoria line really winds me up though. 90 seconds to wait...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Which is a non-zero possibility, even though it’s not meant to happen. The monitors used are not great, and this is certainly something to bear in mind.

Nonzero, but probably not in excess of the risks posed by eg cycling to the station.

 

[zwk500]

Nonzero, but probably not in excess of the risks posed by eg cycling to the station.

The guard/driver and railway isn't potentially liable for anything that happens when you are cycling to the station though. So the railway will institute processes and practices to mitigate the potential risk of a trap & drag, even if it's quite small.
If cyclists could claim damages from every close pass from drivers (or police for failing to enforce the law) and dangerous infrastructure from councils you'd see them shift to be more proactive on cycling matters.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I'd probably say there's a difference between hopping on as the hustler alarms sound and just smashing yourself in the gap when you've obviously not made it. I personally don't think a shout from staff makes any difference.

I would agree. I personally am usually quite happy to jump on board if the alarms have just sounded - since as a regular passenger, I know there's a certain interval of time when the doors are not going to move, but I certainly won't if the doors are actually closing (or are evidently about to close).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 May 2023 ==

My take is I'm very unbothered if someone is jumping on as the doors are closing and I'm always glad to see someone just make it if its a less frequent service. Holding the doors open on e.g. Victoria line really winds me up though. 90 seconds to wait...

Agreed here too. I don't believe people should hold doors open, and I would go as far as to say that I sometimes wish the railway would take firmer action against people who do dangerous things and also hold trains up for other passengers like that. But at the same time I can understand why people might do that if it's another 2 hours wait for the next train. But when the next train is basically right behind the one you're holding up... *sigh*

On the other hand, it would help the moral case against people who do that if the railway stopped it's truly awful practice of closing doors or even having trains actually depart 30 seconds or so before the time that they are publicly advertised to depart.

 

[railfan99]

I noticed at St Pancras that they now pull the barriers across e.g. Plat 1 and 2 just before departure (unadvertised from the boards 2 mins before departure but the barriers seem to be more 1 min before) - that way people physically cannot attempt to board. Usually results in good timing for departure.

I appreciate the danger to passengers from those who board post-departure time, and possible delays from people holding doors open, but isn't one of the advantages of rail travel that one can board a train with 10 or 30 seconds to spare before the 'clock ticks over' to timetabled departure? I agree with DynamicSpirit's second paragraph above.

IIRC, Deutsche Bahn has even advertised this.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

In Sydney, the door alarm suburban and intercity trains sounds only as the doors actually close, not before, so the guard pushes a button which plays a recorded message “Doors closing, please stand clear,” which acts as a substitute for the alarm sounding beforehand, and then pushes another one to immediately close the doors. This recorded message is spoken relatively slowly, so if I hear “Doors closing-“ I know to quickly hop on. What’s stupid are the people that get on after that message has finished as the doors then close immediately. That’s why the recorded message and the actual door button are separate buttons on the newer stock panels. The guard checks people have heeded the sign and that the doors are clear, then closes them immediately.

(Not my video, also the beeps sound unusually hoarse in this example!)

Whereas I guess with a train where the same beep is made immediately before closing and when actually closing, you don’t know when they’re going to close so it seems more risky.

I’ve only chanced the doors once in the UK and that was a 332 because they used to have a habit of saying “No further boarding” a good minute before the doors closed at Heathrow Central.

 

[jon0844]

Last minute punters are now getting in the habit of standing within the platform train interface waiting to be let on should the doors have shut. They will then stay there as they know the train shouldn’t leave with them there and no manner of shouting will persuade them to move. It’s often just easier to reopen and let them on. Passenger 1 Guard 0.

I've seen this happen more, with people standing by the side of the train and holding their hand on the door open button. As the train can't move, and DOO dispatch means the driver would have to get out to say something (instead of a dispatcher that could shout at them), the doors are usually reopened. As with everything, once people learn (and share) this 'hack' it will lead to more people trying the same thing.

 

[RailExplorer]

I've seen this happen more, with people standing by the side of the train and holding their hand on the door open button. As the train can't move, and DOO dispatch means the driver would have to get out to say something (instead of a dispatcher that could shout at them), the doors are usually reopened. As with everything, once people learn (and share) this 'hack' it will lead to more people trying the same thing.

I refuse to re open the doors when people do this. I just sit there with the doors closed waiting and waiting. They generally let go at some point at which point power is taken.

In terms of people holding the doors open - I generally make a PA to say that they are delaying the train for other passengers onboard. Not much more I can do so I don't worry about it.

In terms of last minute arrivals. This really doesn't bother me. They can try to board until the very last millisecond if they so wish. I guess you just become immune to this behaviour in London. The key however is, is to ensure a safe despatch corridor is available after the doors have closed using the DOO monitors. If I'm not happy, the train doesn't depart until I'm happy.

 

[Edsmith]

Happens all the time, especially on the tube, usually without any problems.