Blackpool Trams News

[Harvey B]

The South Yorkshire Supertram also employs conductors, I'd rather have a visible staff presence in the passenger area than having no staff at all.

I'm in agreement with you.

There's also many older people in the general public who don't know how to work a TVM.

 

[Lemmy282]

I believe the conductors on Sheffield Supertram were introduced following a serious incident on board a tram that the driver was unaware of. Of course, the original ticketing system of buying a ticket at one machine and then validating it at another was such a long process a lot of people didn't bother and were riding for free, so the introduction of conductors improved revenue no end!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Are any plans afoot to extend the tramway past Starr Gate.

 

[Towers]

Are any plans afoot to extend the tramway past Starr Gate.

I would think that’s incredibly unlikely!

 

[pr1]

Are any plans afoot to extend the tramway past Starr Gate.

There used to be. One organisation proposed the stops:

(Image from light rail promotion organisation showing proposed tram stops from South Shore in Blackpool to St Annes and Lytham, with stops along the way including Coastal Dunes, St Leonard's Road, St Thomas's Road, and Clifton Hospital.)

 

[Haywain]

There used to be. One organisation proposed the stops:

(Image from light rail promotion organisation showing proposed tram stops from South Shore in Blackpool to St Annes and Lytham, with stops along the way including Coastal Dunes, St Leonard's Road, St Thomas's Road, and Clifton Hospital.)

More a suggestion than a plan.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

(Image from light rail promotion organisation showing proposed tram stops from South Shore in Blackpool to St Annes and Lytham, with stops along the way including Coastal Dunes, St Leonard's Road, St Thomas's Road, and Clifton Hospital.)

That looks to be wanting to overtake the existing national rail line to Blackpool South, with some extra stops.

 

[edwin_m]

Some kind of tram or tram-train to Lytham and perhaps as far as Kirkham & Wesham has been talked about for a couple of decades at least.

 

[davehsug]

Some kind of tram or tram-train to Lytham and perhaps as far as Kirkham & Wesham has been talked about for a couple of decades at least.

Wasn't there some idea of relaying the Kirkham-Fleetwood line and having a circular tram/train route covering the whole Fylde?

 

[SwindonManor]

Anything at the other end? The only extension we've had is a 2 stop mini extension to North station, via a one way stop at Talbot Square. I hear they plan for a National Rail extension to Cleveleys? Can't remember where I saw it now but I think there are plans somewhere

 

[AlastairFraser]

Wasn't there some idea of relaying the Kirkham-Fleetwood line and having a circular tram/train route covering the whole Fylde?

Anything at the other end? The only extension we've had is a 2 stop mini extension to North station, via a one way stop at Talbot Square. I hear they plan for a National Rail extension to Cleveleys? Can't remember where I saw it now but I think there are plans somewhere

Yes, the tram extension options are mentioned in the Fleetwood railway reopening study here on Lancs County Council's website: https://www.lancashire.gov.uk/counc...ood-railway-line-reopening-feasibility-study/

 

[Topmandog1]

There used to be. One organisation proposed the stops:

(Image from light rail promotion organisation showing proposed tram stops from South Shore in Blackpool to St Annes and Lytham, with stops along the way including Coastal Dunes, St Leonard's Road, St Thomas's Road, and Clifton Hospital.)

i Mean they've been shouting about that for years, i mean just the sheer cost of it would put any council and government off it, st annes and lytham are just not big enough to warrant a 10s of millions costing trams extension, i mean Talbot road cost 22M, an extension to st annes and beyond using that method would disrupt the trains as well, plus the cost of new trams, 16 cost 33m in 2011, i belive the 2 new trams fell under the 22m figure when approved in 2017, it would just cost so much, plus also they'd likely need a new depot with the new section being like 5 and half miles. who would fund it? Also id be completely againsyt it replacing soth fylde line, thats complete madness for anyone whos ever used it

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Apr 2026 ==

Did a couple of rides on Blackpool trams today. It did feel like a buses-on-rails system rather than a rapid transit metro, as confirmed by bluegoblin7's very helpful stats.

The Blackpool - Fleetwood journey time felt on the long side. Halving the number of stops could plausibly bring journey time down to below 30 minutes.

The half-hourly frequency to North Station is disappointing. Given the double back only costs 5 minutes, it would make sense to send every tram to North Station and increase the number of trains that are a short change from a tram.

That the system employs conductors quite frankly baffles me.

The Problem with that is, as we all expected it the line being on the road, the line cant handle that many trams and they did try a every tram goes to north station route and it didnt last long, and they are still having fairly often signal failures at the points and having to stop services to north station (also affect heritage ability to use the line), which i feel sorry for passengers there as there is no live times screen there

 

[Farigiraf]

i mean just the sheer cost of it would put any council and government off it

Whilst I don't doubt this part,

st annes and lytham are just not big enough to warrant a 10s of millions costing trams extension

this part I don't necessarily agree with. Lytham st Annes has a combined population of 43,000 - numerous interurban tram extensions happen often in continental Europe to satellite towns with a fraction of the population. Plenty in the Zürich hinterland, as well as the Belgian Kusttram and the various tram-train lines in Austria.
Blackpool hasn't got that much commuter traffic but that's partly due to the gradual decline of UK seaside towns - give it some love (including more jobs) and it'll become a thriving place after a while.

Also id be completely againsyt it replacing soth fylde line, thats complete madness for anyone whos ever used it

It's a complex matter, and unlikely to happen anyway given Blackpool council's budget at the moment, but there is some debate to be had over whether using the South Fylde line is even worth it. The Preston - Lytham St Annes / Pleasure Beach link is a popular one (albeit constrained in potential due to the single track) and there is the wide Clifton Drive connecting Starr Gate straight to St Annes. Lots you could feasibly do, but reading this thread will show how there won't be the money for quite some time without the Treasury contributing.

 

[AlastairFraser]

It's a complex matter, and unlikely to happen anyway given Blackpool council's budget at the moment, but there is some debate to be had over whether using the South Fylde line is even worth it. The Preston - Lytham St Annes / Pleasure Beach link is a popular one (albeit constrained in potential due to the single track) and there is the wide Clifton Drive connecting Starr Gate straight to St Annes. Lots you could feasibly do, but reading this thread will show how there won't be the money for quite some time without the Treasury contributing.

You could provide a far more frequent tram service from Starr Gate to Kirkham & Wesham on the South Fylde Line trackbed than it gets now from Northern. You could even use tram trains to enable seamless cross platform interchange at Kirkham if you wanted.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

One matter of reality is to see how many cars come down the M55 to reach the southern part of that coastal area of Blackpool, whereas in the years after the Second World War car ownership was much lower. Not so very long ago whilst on a bus ride through a housing estate, it seemed that every house had one or two cars.

 

[Farigiraf]

You could provide a far more frequent tram service from Starr Gate to Kirkham & Wesham on the South Fylde Line trackbed than it gets now from Northern. You could even use tram trains to enable seamless cross platform interchange at Kirkham if you wanted.

You couldn't increase it to more than hourly without redoubling which will shoot the cost of any project up. To make the Kirkham connection acceptable, there would need to be a tram-train connecting off of every single Blackpool North service. Unless combined with a Fleetwood branch reopening, Tram-trains would also be unnecessary when there's a perfectly usable main road that the tram can run along.

 

[edwin_m]

You couldn't increase it to more than hourly without redoubling which will shoot the cost of any project up. To make the Kirkham connection acceptable, there would need to be a tram-train connecting off of every single Blackpool North service. Unless combined with a Fleetwood branch reopening, Tram-trains would also be unnecessary when there's a perfectly usable main road that the tram can run along.

With full conversion of the route to tramway standards, passing loops could be introduced at much lower cost than if they were to railway standards.

If the major road is free of traffic congestion, then a bus is probably a better option than a tram. If it's congested then there's no point in putting a tram along it that would just get stuck in the same jams. Either way a tram shouldn't be using a main road for any significant distance.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

You couldn't increase it to more than hourly without redoubling which will shoot the cost of any project up. To make the Kirkham connection acceptable, there would need to be a tram-train connecting off of every single Blackpool North service. Unless combined with a Fleetwood branch reopening, Tram-trains would also be unnecessary when there's a perfectly usable main road that the tram can run along.

I wonder how many vehicles use Amoundrness Way on a daily basis currently.

 

[Haywain]

To make the Kirkham connection acceptable, there would need to be a tram-train connecting off of every single Blackpool North service.

I disagree - it would replace what is currently an hourly service so any more frequent regular interval service would suffice. A 15 or 20 minute interval service would provide an acceptable waiting time at Kirkham in both directions for most of the day.

Tram-trains would also be unnecessary when there's a perfectly usable main road that the tram can run along.

Tram trains wouldn't be necessary if such an extension was not shared with mainline trains.

 

[EyeKay]

One issue with tram trains is platform height. You either have them with low floor like Sheffield and therefore have to build custom platforms at heavy rail stations or you have them high floor which means all your platforms on the tram network need to be high as well

 

[AlastairFraser]

You couldn't increase it to more than hourly without redoubling which will shoot the cost of any project up. To make the Kirkham connection acceptable, there would need to be a tram-train connecting off of every single Blackpool North service. Unless combined with a Fleetwood branch reopening, Tram-trains would also be unnecessary when there's a perfectly usable main road that the tram can run along.

As another member has said, passing loops would be much cheaper to deliver if built to tram train spec, and trams driven on sight (similar to the system on Metrolink) can vacate sections faster with faster acceleration and less investment in complex signalling.

Remember that there's also 1 more path Preston to Kirkham (and potentially into Blackpool North) freed up if you convert the South Fylde Line to tram-train operation, so frequent tram train connections into Preston wouldn't be that difficult.

The main road along the sea front is currently quite congested, a more frequent tram service would encourage modal shift onto public transport, especially with stops at Saltcotes for the schools and a park & ride stop at Wrea Green with a shuttle bus to Warton Aerodrome (a major employer in the area).

If the major road is free of traffic congestion, then a bus is probably a better option than a tram. If it's congested then there's no point in putting a tram along it that would just get stuck in the same jams. Either way a tram shouldn't be using a main road for any significant distance.

Exactly - there are already several buses an hour between Blackpool and Preston via Lytham and Warton, with even more operating on the Blackpool - Lytham section. They don't make enough of a dent in congestion.

Tram trains wouldn't be necessary if such an extension was not shared with mainline trains.

Unfortunately the junction design at Kirkham and Wesham means it would be difficult to avoid sharing track with mainline trains, and this would be quite expensive to rectify.

One issue with tram trains is platform height. You either have them with low floor like Sheffield and therefore have to build custom platforms at heavy rail stations or you have them high floor which means all your platforms on the tram network need to be high as well

The Sheffield solution would probably be best if you only used the Squires Gate to Kirkham section (which would be the most cost effective upgrade anyway). Low floor platform extensions at each station and new low floor platforms for the few proposed new stops would make a lot of sense.

I wonder how many vehicles use Amoundrness Way on a daily basis currently.

Thornton A585
At the Thornton roundabout, AADF (Average Annual Daily Flow) is around 20,000 motor vehicles.
Data for other points is available on the site too, but 20,000 is quite a high AADF for a single carriageway road, which is partly why the reopening is needed in some form.

 

[Haywain]

Unfortunately the junction design at Kirkham and Wesham means it would be difficult to avoid sharing track with mainline trains, and this would be quite expensive to rectify.

Junction design isn't relevant if there was no more than a nominal connection east of the station (in the same way that Manchester's system has a main line connection at Bury).

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

There are four buses per hour Blackpool to Lytham (Service 11) so clearly there is a tram-like level of demand. Running that level of service right through to Kirkham, however, would be overkill in my view. There are previous threads on this, but my plan would be:-

▪︎ Truncate heavy rail at St. Annes.

▪︎ Convert St. Annes to Squres Gate to tramway and connect to existing terminus at Starr Gate.

▪︎ Abandon Squires Gate to Blackpool South.

▪︎ Parallel single lines tramway / heavy rail St. Annes to Lytham making use of the former double track formation.

This has the advantage of still giving St. Annes and Lytham through heavy rail services to Preston and beyond, yet enabling the tramway to reach Lytham.

Local government reorganisation will give Blackpool a much enlarged area - there are various options yet to be decided. This might be the spur to tramway expansion - previously Blackpool was reluctant to consider new routes outside its boundaries, and there were even mutterings about closing Bispham to Fleetwood ( currently in Wyre).

 

[SwindonManor]

There are four buses per hour Blackpool to Lytham (Service 11) so clearly there is a tram-like level of demand. Running that level of service right through to Kirkham, however, would be overkill in my view. There are previous threads on this, but my plan would be:-

▪︎ Truncate heavy rail at St. Annes.

▪︎ Convert St. Annes to Squres Gate to tramway and connect to existing terminus at Starr Gate.

▪︎ Abandon Squires Gate to Blackpool South.

▪︎ Parallel single lines tramway / heavy rail St. Annes to Lytham making use of the former double track formation.

This has the advantage of still giving St. Annes and Lytham through heavy rail services to Preston and beyond, yet enabling the tramway to reach Lytham.

Local government reorganisation will give Blackpool a much enlarged area - there are various options yet to be decided. This might be the spur to tramway expansion - previously Blackpool was reluctant to consider new routes outside its boundaries, and there were even mutterings about closing Bispham to Fleetwood ( currently in Wyre).

Clever idea! Having one railway and one tramway would work I think, have you seen all the disused platforms on the BS line - they could do with filling those up (however there are organisations that do help plant flowers and make the platforms prettier at these stations along the line already)

 

[The Pelican]

The Blackpool North line always seems to be the obvious one to add tram-trains to for me- build a short extra section along Talbot road from the new tram line, one or two new platforms at North station, then a place to switch between systems. Two new tram height platforms at or near Preston, and as many intermediate stations as the tram trains would serve. The rolling stock could be almost identical to the Sheffield Rotherham tram trains. You'd probably run the tram trains from South pier to Preston, possibly some from Fleetwood to Preston.

 

[Leedsbusman]

The Blackpool North line always seems to be the obvious one to add tram-trains to for me- build a short extra section along Talbot road from the new tram line, one or two new platforms at North station, then a place to switch between systems. Two new tram height platforms at or near Preston, and as many intermediate stations as the tram trains would serve. The rolling stock could be almost identical to the Sheffield Rotherham tram trains. You'd probably run the tram trains from South pier to Preston, possibly some from Fleetwood to Preston.

That does seem an awful lot of effort to save a short walk to the tram stop!

 

[davehsug]

Does anyone know when the summer timetable will be starting in Blackpool? I'm there in 3 weeks & really don't fancy getting around on the current one! I keep checking the website, but nothing has appeared yet.

 

[Harvey B]

Does anyone know when the summer timetable will be starting in Blackpool? I'm there in 3 weeks & really don't fancy getting around on the current one! I keep checking the website, but nothing has appeared yet.

From the looks of thinks, I think they might be keeping this Timetable for a good while. Probably until the start of the Illuminations.

If your travelling between Starr Gate & North Pier, there's a 20 minute gap every half hour, but that could be easily plugged with a Half hourly Pleasure Beach -Bispham service.

 

[317 forever]

There are four buses per hour Blackpool to Lytham (Service 11) so clearly there is a tram-like level of demand. Running that level of service right through to Kirkham, however, would be overkill in my view. There are previous threads on this, but my plan would be:-

▪︎ Truncate heavy rail at St. Annes.

▪︎ Convert St. Annes to Squres Gate to tramway and connect to existing terminus at Starr Gate.

▪︎ Abandon Squires Gate to Blackpool South.

▪︎ Parallel single lines tramway / heavy rail St. Annes to Lytham making use of the former double track formation.

This has the advantage of still giving St. Annes and Lytham through heavy rail services to Preston and beyond, yet enabling the tramway to reach Lytham.

Local government reorganisation will give Blackpool a much enlarged area - there are various options yet to be decided. This might be the spur to tramway expansion - previously Blackpool was reluctant to consider new routes outside its boundaries, and there were even mutterings about closing Bispham to Fleetwood ( currently in Wyre).

One idea might be to convert the Blackpool South line to light rail and to extend the Blackpool tram towards Preston.

EDIT This has been part suggested already.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Junction design isn't relevant if there was no more than a nominal connection east of the station (in the same way that Manchester's system has a main line connection at Bury).

It would matter when additional platforms and trackwork at Kirkham would be considerably more expensive than low height tram train extension platforms at Kirkham.

There are four buses per hour Blackpool to Lytham (Service 11) so clearly there is a tram-like level of demand. Running that level of service right through to Kirkham, however, would be overkill in my view. There are previous threads on this, but my plan would be:-

▪︎ Truncate heavy rail at St. Annes.

▪︎ Convert St. Annes to Squres Gate to tramway and connect to existing terminus at Starr Gate.

▪︎ Abandon Squires Gate to Blackpool South.

▪︎ Parallel single lines tramway / heavy rail St. Annes to Lytham making use of the former double track formation.

This has the advantage of still giving St. Annes and Lytham through heavy rail services to Preston and beyond, yet enabling the tramway to reach Lytham.

Local government reorganisation will give Blackpool a much enlarged area - there are various options yet to be decided. This might be the spur to tramway expansion - previously Blackpool was reluctant to consider new routes outside its boundaries, and there were even mutterings about closing Bispham to Fleetwood ( currently in Wyre).

The 1tph Blackpool South to Preston is functionally useless anyway. A connection into 4tph at Kirkham is far more useful and also means you could modernise signalling significantly + get all of Blackpool South to Kirkham off the NR books for maintenance.
I agree that a Fylde Coast Council will be much more likely to progress any Fleetwood/South Fylde tram/tram train plans though. The population of the new council will perhaps even justify central government funding towards extensions or a whole new line.

The Blackpool North line always seems to be the obvious one to add tram-trains to for me- build a short extra section along Talbot road from the new tram line, one or two new platforms at North station, then a place to switch between systems. Two new tram height platforms at or near Preston, and as many intermediate stations as the tram trains would serve. The rolling stock could be almost identical to the Sheffield Rotherham tram trains. You'd probably run the tram trains from South pier to Preston, possibly some from Fleetwood to Preston.

Why would you run tram trains (75mph at best) all the way to Preston on a 25kv OHLE electrified line with some sections having linespeeds of 100mph?