Blackpool South - Blackpool Central

[Tiny Tim]

IIRC the local council wanted the land for other development (which never properly materialised), so asked for Central to close in lieu of North - Beeching recommended North close and Central remain.

Looking at before and after photos, Blackpool Central was hardly redeveloped at all, it's all a car park even now. What an outrageous waste.

Closing Blackpool North wouldn't have made much sense either.

 

[lancastrian]

IIRC the local council wanted the land for other development (which never properly materialised), so asked for Central to close in lieu of North - Beeching recommended North close and Central remain.

To me it was just typical short sightedness of the time. Trains were old fashioned and cars where the in thing. That myopic thinking is why we have such crazy situations on the railways today. Large towns have no rail service but large areas of Scotland and Wales have stations serving basically almost no one. The nearest villages are often miles away from the station. And don't get me started on Berney Arms.

I had relatives in Lytham at the time who live facing the railway line near Lytham Station. Seeing how what was a double track main line, into a large 14 platform major station, brought down to a single track (no passing loops) to a basic platform at the edge of a 1 mile car park, far from the centre of Blackpool is very sad.

What is needed at the very least to revitalise this line is very simple. The basic requirements to me at least are a dynamic loop from before Lytham to past St. Annes Station. Lytham, Andsdel & St. Annes to have two platforms again. Reopen Wrea Green. And extend the line from south to as close as possible to the site of Central Station. I know they have put a road through the site of the platforms. At Central there needs to be at the least 2 platforms, 4 would be better. All the platforms to be able to accommodate at least a 9 car 23m length trains.

 

[Penmorfa]

What is needed at the very least to revitalise this line is very simple. The basic requirements to me at least are a dynamic loop from before Lytham to past St. Annes Station. Lytham, Andsdel & St. Annes to have two platforms again. Reopen Wrea Green. And extend the line from south to as close as possible to the site of Central Station. I know they have put a road through the site of the platforms. At Central there needs to be at the least 2 platforms, 4 would be better. All the platforms to be able to accommodate at least a 9 car 23m length trains.

I agree with you about a dynamic loop and a possible extension towards central Blackpool. But a 9 car length 4 platform station is just fantasy with the other much faster route to Blackpool currently being electrified. A half hourly shuttle to Preston/ Colne looks the most likely future for this line

 

[Cliveblackpool]

I agree with you about a dynamic loop and a possible extension towards central Blackpool. But a 9 car length 4 platform station is just fantasy with the other much faster route to Blackpool currently being electrified. A half hourly shuttle to Preston/ Colne looks the most likely future for this line

A railway connecting a very densely populated area, and one of the most deprived wards in GB (Bloomfield) and would inject a huge investment, and benefit to that area. Tourism, and employment - easy commuting.

The extra 1/2 hourly train should go to Manchester.
IMO I am not an expert in comparing passenger numbers, but when comparing the passenger numbers with a City like Preston, Blackpool's numbers seem so much less.
Preston is a major hub with direct services, and although smaller population than Blackpool, has a fair population outside the City. ++
Blackpool has a major tourist industry. ++
I feel the local population in Blackpool do not use the railway nearly as much as Preston.
Some local businesses and individuals go by road and use Preston station instead.
Anyone used BPN station after 11pm?
Outside lights off, and you wait outside the station until 3 minutes before departure, when they open a small roller shutter door direct onto the platform.:roll: A very unpleasant experience.

 

[sheff'd victoria]

Having visited Blackpool South station the other week, it appeared that the line would have extended beyond the current terminus (what with tehe bridge like structure and huge bank beyond the buffers).

Reading online later, it seems it did indeed continue beyond this point to Blackpool Central.

I have found a few images and maps showing the look and siting of Blackpool Central, but haven't been able to find anything about the old South station, before it became a terminus.

Does anyone have any info/pictures of how the area was? Any general info on the area in general before the demise of Central would be interesting too...have to say I am now rather intrigued!

Their was talk in the late 1990's of laying extra track from Blackpool South to Bloomfield Road ( Where Blackpool FC play ) I guess this fell on deaf ears.

The Blackpool South line is a sleeping giant and if only Network Rail would get their backsides out of gear and double the line from Kirkham to Blackpool South is would have a better future

 

[Crossover]

Thanks for the replies so far all

Anyone used BPN station after 11pm?
Outside lights off, and you wait outside the station until 3 minutes before departure, when they open a small roller shutter door direct onto the platform.:roll: A very unpleasant experience.

I have been before 11pm, and to be honest, the reception didn't feel all that much less hostile!

 

[lancastrian]

I agree with you about a dynamic loop and a possible extension towards central Blackpool. But a 9 car length 4 platform station is just fantasy with the other much faster route to Blackpool currently being electrified. A half hourly shuttle to Preston/ Colne looks the most likely future for this line

You may be right, but I remember when the services from Blackpool Central via Lytham, had a very good service through to Manchester Victoria. I even remember travelling from Birmingham New Street, straight through to Lytham in 1971. I was visiting relatives there when I lived in the Midlands.

Yes I know the line was still double track, and yes the train was pulled by a class 40, there was run-round facilities still at Blackpool South. I know that the route to Blackpool North might be quicker, BUT there is a greater population served by the coast line. I could accept a 2 platform station at a new Central site, but they need to be as long as possible. Plus the line needs to be electrified as well.

 

[Eire Sprinter]

Some points I'm pondering over:

* If Blackpool Central was reopened in the morning with a terminal island platform and for instance two trains an hour (the existing Colne and one further afield [with the necessary loop further south on the line]) what is the likely level of abstraction from Blackpool North?

* The alignment between South and Central seems essentially unimpeded and presumably in local authority ownership.

* The likely cost (i.e. single track extension, island platform, two-storey station building). The station building should quickly pay for itself in terms of rent accrued from cafés and shops which would likely be keen to orientate themselves around the new station.

* Have walked twice from central Blackpool to Blackpool North after dark and whilst thankfully uneventful I didn't find it the most inviting of walks.

PS: thanks to the posters who suggested further books about Blackpool's railways earlier in this thread.

 

[yorksrob]

Some points I'm pondering over:

* If Blackpool Central was reopened in the morning with a terminal island platform and for instance two trains an hour (the existing Colne and one further afield [with the necessary loop further south on the line]) what is the likely level of abstraction from Blackpool North?

* The alignment between South and Central seems essentially unimpeded and presumably in local authority ownership.

* The likely cost (i.e. single track extension, island platform, two-storey station building). The station building should quickly pay for itself in terms of rent accrued from cafés and shops which would likely be keen to orientate themselves around the new station.

* Have walked twice from central Blackpool to Blackpool North after dark and whilst thankfully uneventful I didn't find it the most inviting of walks.

PS: thanks to the posters who suggested further books about Blackpool's railways earlier in this thread.

Judging by passengers continued antipathy towards changing trains, I'm guessing that if the majority of inter-regional services continued to go to Blackpool North, most people would still continue to end up there - particularly given that it's still reasonably close to the centre.

 

[sheff'd victoria]

Judging by passengers continued antipathy towards changing trains, I'm guessing that if the majority of inter-regional services continued to go to Blackpool North, most people would still continue to end up there - particularly given that it's still reasonably close to the centre.

But on the other hand a large amount of tourists head towards the Pleasure Beach or on a match day towards Blackpool FC, both at the South end of the town, the reason people don't use Blackpool South / Blackpool Pleasure Beach stations as much is the deplorable service on the line, and the fact that the traction is normally booked as a Class 142 railbus

 

[Cliveblackpool]

Atm it is one train per hour, 2 coach pacer 142.
Put 2tph on, (Colne & Manchester Victoria) and the passengers numbers will more than triple! Ideal also to travel BPS to SAS etc, fraction of the time to the bus!
All through the year the service is busy.
In the main season, the train is also absolutely packed with visitors to Pleasure Beach ramming the train.
A passing loop should have already been installed.
The benefits it would bring to a very depressed area would be enormous.
South Shore has, and convenient for the major attractions, and the popular destination for families.
Stag & Hens tend to frequent the Central area (Town Centre)

 

[sheff'd victoria]

A passing loop should have already been installed.

Was their not talk of Network Rail doing this at St Annes station ?

 

[yorksrob]

But on the other hand a large amount of tourists head towards the Pleasure Beach or on a match day towards Blackpool FC, both at the South end of the town, the reason people don't use Blackpool South / Blackpool Pleasure Beach stations as much is the deplorable service on the line, and the fact that the traction is normally booked as a Class 142 railbus

I'd like to see the South branch doubled and given a much better service. I think it would probably be better used by more local people "in the know" and some day trippers to the pleasure beach/stadium, but I think the stag parties and holiday makers arriving from further afield are probably more likely to stay on the train to North.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Although a much more expensive option, it seems to me the ideal solution would be to double the South branch and extend to Central, as just about everyone is suggesting, AND then to tunnel through to North. That way you could get the whole of Blackpool linked up properly onto one single through rail line. Rebuild Blackpool North into a through station only, with all current services on the North line extended to either terminate at Central or carry on right round the loop that would make rail travel massively more convenient in Blackpool and release quite a bit of lland on the existing Blackpool North station. It would also make reopening the Fleetwood line much more viable as you'd then be able to provide through journeys along the entire length of the Blackpool-Fleetwood connurbation. The train would become the preferred method of travel for many longer journeys that are entirely within Lytham/Blackpool/Fleetwood, something that the lines can't effectively do with the current split setup (which is quite ridiculous given how obviously the size and shape of the connurbation so obviously lends itself to at through metro-style rail line).

 

[AndyHudds]

A nice picture of the old Blackpool South station after closure or before being scaled back to the single platform halt it is nowadays. You can just see the floodlights of Bloomfield Road in the background beyond the bridge.

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/3201621

 

[Crossover]

A nice picture of the old Blackpool South station after closure or before being scaled back to the single platform halt it is nowadays. You can just see the floodlights of Bloomfield Road in the background beyond the bridge.

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/3201621

Thanks for that - great find

All the platforms were through ones weren't they? (just can't see what is the corrent platform due to the building on it blocking the view behind)

 

[mr_jrt]

Although a much more expensive option, it seems to me the ideal solution would be to double the South branch and extend to Central, as just about everyone is suggesting, AND then to tunnel through to North.

Indeed. This is the obvious thought that occurred to me as well. I suspect it would be horrendous (read: expensive) ground conditions so close to the shore though...not to mention the flooding issues. There's also no handy road to run under, so you'd have to go quite deep to prevent disturbing the foundations of the buildings on the surface.

 

[D6975]

Thanks for the replies so far all



I have been before 11pm, and to be honest, the reception didn't feel all that much less hostile!

You too?
I stayed in Blackpool to do a NW rover in the summer of 2011 and my experiences with the staff there were not good.
The rudest and most unhelpful I've come across anywhere.
They are Northern staff I believe, which makes it a bit odd as I've always found Northern staff elsewhere to be among the best.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I assume at the time the building was still in use and the station still staffed, with a lot more facilities than nowadays?!

Rant alert:
I do find it slightly frustrating that there seems to be lots of photos of infrastructure in every era aside from 1970-1990, which makes stuff like this a lot harder to trace. I mean, aside from Sub-Brit, photos of closed or extensively rebuilt stations such as Dover Western Docks, Tilbury Riverside, Manchester Piccadilly, Manchester Victoria, Blackburn and Stratford (London) are incredibly hard to find, yet engines and traction from the time are photographed and recorded a million times over. Just the way of the world I guess.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Indeed. This is the obvious thought that occurred to me as well. I suspect it would be horrendous (read: expensive) ground conditions so close to the shore though...not to mention the flooding issues. There's also no handy road to run under, so you'd have to go quite deep to prevent disturbing the foundations of the buildings on the surface.

Good points, especially about the lack of a road to go under. I don't really know anything about tunnelling mechanics so don't know how important being close to the sea is. (Anyone else know?). My understanding is that real expense in tunnelling these days comes not from the track but when you want to build actual stations underground (can anyone confirm?). Since noone's proposing underground stations in Blackpool, that may not be such a problem. (Although set against that, if the tunnel really does need to be deep, that may mean both the new Central and North stations may need to be in cuttings of they are to be kept in convenient locations, which presumably would up the expense. That could imply a more economical version of the scheme might involve moving Blackpool North a little further from the town).

Also, Blackpool tower - built over 100 years ago when technology wasn't nearly as good as now - lies between the sea and where the tunnel would go - I'm guessing that must have massive foundations, and also has a big ballroom area which I seem to recall from a visit some years ago is at least partly underground. The Houndshill shopping centre, also between the sea and the proposed tunnel has largish underground toilets. That all suggests to me that underground work in Blackpool isn't too unfeasible. So given how massive the benefits would be from a relatively short tunnel stretch, my guess is it's still an option worth exploring.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Also, Blackpool tower - built over 100 years ago when technology wasn't nearly as good as now - lies between the sea and where the tunnel would go - I'm guessing that must have massive foundations, and also has a big ballroom area which I seem to recall from a visit some years ago is at least partly underground. The houndmills shopping centre, also between the sea and the proposed tunnel has largish underground toilets. That all suggests to me that underground work in Blackpool isn't too unfeasible. So given how massive the benefits would be from a relatively short tunnel stretch, my guess is it's still an option worth exploring.

Do you mean Houndshill shopping centre? :P

Yes, I noticed that too. I'd have liked to have seen Blackpool Central station, North, as easy as it is to get to, does seem a mission away sometimes.

 

[snail]

Blackpool haven't got the money to build decent attractions on the surface, is providing a tunnel from North to South really going to tempt people out of their cars and on to the trains in sufficient numbers?

 

[Crossover]

You too?
I stayed in Blackpool to do a NW rover in the summer of 2011 and my experiences with the staff there were not good.
The rudest and most unhelpful I've come across anywhere.
They are Northern staff I believe, which makes it a bit odd as I've always found Northern staff elsewhere to be among the best.

It was when visiting the illuminations earlier this year, and it was only about 6.30pm!

I was with yorkie at the time too, and they'll vouch for the hostility of some of the staff too

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Do you mean Houndshill shopping centre? :P

Ummmm, spotted my deliberate mistake

Fixed, thanks

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Just while the matter of ground stability in the Blackpool area is being discussed, what is the latest train of thought with regard to the "fracking" proposals, should full-scale operations commence in that nearby area ?

 

[D6975]

4) Re-open Poulton-Fleetwood;

This would surely be best served by an extension of the tram system. It could be street running past the marina and shopping outlet, then pick up the old trackbed down to Poulton. An interchange platform for the trams could be built just before you get to the junction so that the light/heavy systems are completely seperate.

 

[ATW Alex 101]

Looking through this thread is interesting. This line is probably the line I have travelled most when I used to have a season ticket with Blackpool.

Before reading this thread I never knew the line actually continued, I knew there was a Blackpool Central but I thought that was somewhere else.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

This would surely be best served by an extension of the tram system. It could be street running past the marina and shopping outlet, then pick up the old trackbed down to Poulton. An interchange platform for the trams could be built just before you get to the junction so that the light/heavy systems are completely seperate.

Just a cursory glance at the existing direct bus service provision between Poulton-le-Fylde and Fleetwood, I found the following services:-

80...Cumfy Coaches

82...Cumfy Coaches

84...Stagecoach in Lancashire.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

However, I would also assume Alloa-Stirling and the Ebbw Valley-Cradiff get plenty of direct bus services, but doesn't stop their new rail links from being two of the most successful reopenings since WW2... I genuinely believe that aside from those getting it free (or located a distance from the station) people will use trains over buses - they're generally quicker, more comfortable, and cheaper.

 

[Cliveblackpool]

Just a cursory glance at the existing direct bus service provision between Poulton-le-Fylde and Fleetwood, I found the following services:-

80...Cumfy Coaches

82...Cumfy Coaches

84...Stagecoach in Lancashire.

Interesting points.
Would save a lot of work in Fleetwood.
Heavy rail could run direct to Preston.
Depends on if there is a provision for freight to the Port etc?