Blackpool - Manchester Electrification

[59CosG95]

what? are they not all factory made kits now?

New stations may well be, but stations dating from the Victorian era are considerably more difficult to fit extensions in, especially if they abut a viaduct, a retaining wall or a tunnel. Liverpool Lime St, to use a recent example, required a bespoke situation.

 

[Bertie the bus]

why cant we get our act together and build adequate platforms? This mucking with train lengths, and SDO, to fit into inadequate platforms is a (*&^&^% disgrace.

Probably because the government rightly thinks there are better things to spend money on than pointlessly extending railway station platforms. Even if all platforms on the route could handle 6 car trains I’ve seen absolutely nothing, except speculation on the internet, to suggest 6 car trains will operate.

However, on the Preston – Manchester route I have no idea why the platform extensions were temporary and not permanent when they were doing them anyway. It took them several months to do them and then they were ripped out again about 3 days after the work was complete. It must have cost a fortune in man hours alone and I can’t believe permanent extensions would have cost that much more.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

why cant we get our act together and build adequate platforms? This mucking with train lengths, and SDO, to fit into inadequate platforms is a (*&^&^% disgrace.

Blame the incrementalists in DfT who "value engineer" every scheme down to the minimum for today. The Preston - Manchester project is deeply unusual in that (if you look closely) the OLE and signalling kit has been installed to allow extensions to eight-car trains (Pendolinos at Bolton), where those might call, but the extensions weren't built. On that route, eight car trains at Salford Crescent is the problem because BR, 30 years ago, was not in a position to even imagine an upturn in passenger numbers ...

 

[Chester1]

Great if they are intending to run 6 cars but not if they’re not. On the Manchester – Preston line Bolton, Horwich Parkway, Chorley and Buckshaw Parkway can presumably all fit a 6 car 323 as they have 6 car 185 services stopping. Leyland and the other stations which had temporary extensions for the Farnworth Tunnel work can’t so capacity could be increased on the semi-fasts but would be reduced on the stoppers.

Subject to staffing etc, why not run a mixture of single 319s and double 323s depending on platform lengths?

 

[CHAPS2034]

Official Video of the Pendo test from NR

https://www.networkrailmediacentre....es-through-bolton-as-upgrade-nears-completion

The accompanying text contains the following information which may be of interest

"This week’s test runs are the first of two phases to check new electrical infrastructure works correctly. The second, in early January, will check the infrastructure can handle faster train speeds for improved passenger journey times."

 

[superkev]

Official Video of the Pendo test from NR

https://www.networkrailmediacentre....es-through-bolton-as-upgrade-nears-completion

The accompanying text contains the following information which may be of interest

"This week’s test runs are the first of two phases to check new electrical infrastructure works correctly. The second, in early January, will check the infrastructure can handle faster train speeds for improved passenger journey times."

I wonder if faster speed testing will include the steam days speeds on Preston Blackpool.
K

 

[Muenchener]

I wonder if faster speed testing will include the steam days speeds on Preston Blackpool.
K

I'd just be happy with linespeed plus 10%... Oh and trains on a Saturday! I'll get my coat...

 

[ic31420]

The most surprising thing about the NR footage was the sight of a decent length train at Bolton

 

[jonesy3001]

I suspect this may be it; Sat. 15th Dec- see bottom of page - 5Z10 ManVic reversing sidings to ManVic reversing sidings, starting 2020

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/SFD/2018/12/15/0000-2359?stp=S&show=all&order=wtt

Pathed as 75 mph Sprinter DMU , but there again doesn't really mean anything as the Pendos were pathed as Voyagers. Anyway the reversing siding is where the Manchester 319 usually seems to live when it's not active.

any idea what unit was involved has it been going back and forth but 21L down?

 

[Geeves]

It was 319386 doing the testing. Just caught the tail end going back to the sidings. It set out late and remained late through out .

Presuming that testing was a success. I'm wondering if we will see a token electric service next week on something .

 

[CAF397]

Official Video of the Pendo test from NR

https://www.networkrailmediacentre....es-through-bolton-as-upgrade-nears-completion

The accompanying text contains the following information which may be of interest

"This week’s test runs are the first of two phases to check new electrical infrastructure works correctly. The second, in early January, will check the infrastructure can handle faster train speeds for improved passenger journey times."

I wonder if that means no electrode until the second phase has been tested, or that the line speed increases will wait until the second phase has been tested and electrics can run at normal speeds until then?

 

[Howardh]

The most surprising thing about the NR footage was the sight of a decent length train at Bolton

I thought that, and I may have been in the last one way back when! Wonder in the last 3 - 4 yrs what the longest has been, in the tpe days two three-cars together?

 

[Bullfield WEst]

Not sure where to post this but..... Please move to a more appropriate place if needed.
I have just come across a free E-Book on 25kV systems by Garry Keenor. link here. http://www.ocs4rail.com/

 

[59CosG95]

Not sure where to post this but..... Please move to a more appropriate place if needed.
I have just come across a free E-Book on 25kV systems by Garry Keenor. link here. http://www.ocs4rail.com/

Yes, he posted the 5th Edition yesterday afternoon - I'm sure I've seen it elsewhere on the forum beforehand, but a new version is always welcome.

 

[nodrogchannel]

⚡FIRST Electric Train | Bolton Corridor Electrification⚡
Thank you to all at Network Rail for inviting myself along to this special event. Good to meet up with some previous members of NR staff and see how it's all transformed - hats off to you all!

WEBSITE: www.nodrogvlogs.uk
© #thegnrp #boltoncorridor #manchestertopreston

 

[Ken H]

Not sure where to post this but..... Please move to a more appropriate place if needed.
I have just come across a free E-Book on 25kV systems by Garry Keenor. link here. http://www.ocs4rail.com/

nice. christmas reading sorted!

 

[LeylandLen]

Would there be any need or requirement to run electracally hauled freight on the Manchester Bolton Preston line ? I assume it would have to be able to take electric loco hauled trains if only as a diversionary route should the WCML be closed ?

 

[Ken H]

Would there be any need or requirement to run electracally hauled freight on the Manchester Bolton Preston line ? I assume it would have to be able to take electric loco hauled trains if only as a diversionary route should the WCML be closed ?

I would hope it can take anything the WCML can. having an electrified diversionary route in case of blockages between Warrington and Preston would be very valuable.
It now means an electric train can get all the way from Roade to Euxton without going on the WCML.

One wonders if the train staff will have the necessary route knowledge

 

[Ianno87]

It now means an electric train can get all the way from Roade to Euxton without going on the WCML.

**PEDANT ALERT**

Not quite - WCML running is inevitable either between Norton Bridge and Stafford, or between Colwich and Rugeley, plus through Rugby station.

Valud point though - between Roade and Euxton there is pretty much no "single point of failure" now.

 

[CAF397]

Valud point though - between Roade and Euxton there is pretty much no "single point of failure" now.

This is where Network Rail needs to push train operators to get all traincrew to sign the diversions. I'm sure I remember reading a case earlier in the summer where there was an overhead line problem on the direct route between Golborne and Winwick so trains were diverting via Earlestown and a Euston driver couldn't take the diversions because Virgin had made him take it off his card.

 

[Trackman]

319 test train between Vic and Crescent yesterday.
Was booked as a DMU
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/S04892/2018/12/15/advanced

 

[Ken H]

**PEDANT ALERT**

Not quite - WCML running is inevitable either between Norton Bridge and Stafford, or between Colwich and Rugeley, plus through Rugby station.

Valud point though - between Roade and Euxton there is pretty much no "single point of failure" now.

Except Rugby. One would hope they have built in redundancy so a major incident does not block all lines. But i doubt it.

 

[Ianno87]

Except Rugby. One would hope they have built in redundancy so a major incident does not block all lines. But i doubt it.

Rugby station is pretty much fully bi-di signalled - Sunday mornings (for example) see half the station blocked (Up side or Down side) with trains using the other half.

But something like a suicide is always going to be very disruptive there, no matter what.

At least there is the Chiltern route as a decent contingency to avoid Rugby (for passengers, not the trains!)

 

[Whistler40145]

When will the the necessary permission be given for EMUs and Pendolinos to work at the appropriate line speeds?

 

[InOban]

I was assuming that the second phase of testing in January requires the Extension Lead being installed over Christmas?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Not sure where to post this but..... Please move to a more appropriate place if needed.
I have just come across a free E-Book on 25kV systems by Garry Keenor. link here. http://www.ocs4rail.com/

It is on the very first page of the pinned Electrification resources thread at the top of the infrastructure forum which anyone is free and encouraged to add to.

 

[Ken H]

I was assuming that the second phase of testing in January requires the Extension Lead being installed over Christmas?

What can operate over manc/euxton until the extension lead is complete? I assume a full electric Manc/blackpool service would overload the existing feeder stations. I assume to much current being drawn would cause voltage to drop, thus causing amps to increase till a circuit breaker would trip.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Would there be any need or requirement to run electracally hauled freight on the Manchester Bolton Preston line ? I assume it would have to be able to take electric loco hauled trains if only as a diversionary route should the WCML be closed ?

The Tesco Express hauled by an 88 ran via Eccles earlier this year due to planned engineering works so I can't see any reason why the route through Bolton couldn't be used, subject to the usual, i.e. paths, driver route knowledge, etc.

No matter how useful a diversionary route this will be it will be negated by the fact there will no longer be a diversionary route between Bolton and Preston for scheduled trains. When there were problems they used to divert from Bolton to Wigan but once EMUs take over that will not be possible so disruption for Lancashire passengers will increase.

 

[Elecman]

What can operate over manc/euxton until the extension lead is complete? I assume a full electric Manc/blackpool service would overload the existing feeder stations. I assume to much current being drawn would cause voltage to drop, thus causing amps to increase till a circuit breaker would trip.

No in theory a full service could run, but it would be on a wing and a prayer if there was any other WCML feeder problems

 

[Ken H]

No in theory a full service could run, but it would be on a wing and a prayer if there was any other WCML feeder problems

so if there was a hypothetical problem taking out Parkside feeder station at 1730 on a Thursady night in February.
what would actually happen out on the railway?