Blackpool - Manchester Electrification

[LDECRexile]

I see there are quite a lot in the pictures from your guide.

Great!

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I see there are quite a lot in the pictures from your guide.

Great!

I know -team work - 'tis an absolutely wonderful thing.

 

[LDECRexile]

Info for observers and photographers:

The Kirkham station footbridge will arrive on site and be lifted into place on 15th January.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Info for observers and photographers:

The Kirkham station footbridge will arrive on site and be lifted into place on 15th January.

Outstanding news.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

So earth wires at Salwick then?
Do we think these are continuous from Fylde Jn?
I see there are wires on mast 03/27, so well on the way to Salwick.
I particularly like 9260i as an artistic composition with a distant Blackpool Tower overlooking the site.
Always worried about stacks of piles at lineside, as it means they haven't gone in yet - presumably they are for Kirkham?
Great set of pics though, and a fine day for it too.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

So earth wires at Salwick then?
Do we think these are continuous from Fylde Jn?.

Dave can update but the situation on December 29th was as follows.
Full wires to Tom Benson way start - then absolute complete gap - i.e. no earth wires even from start of TB Way to UCLAN. Then two earth wires UCLAN to Salwick.

This may have changed but from the photos Dave posted it looks like it is still wire-less TB Way to UCLAN.

Dave does a huge amount of work so I do not want to pester him - but an updated - schematic - progressometer overview would be extremely useful please and thanks ifat all possible with family etc commitments .

 

[ALX400]

There’s a Path booked from Preston to Adlington shortly on RTT via Bolton 604U it’s an engineering one does anyone happen to know what it may be, it says diesel loco 715 tonnes Tamper prehaps

 

[reg]

There’s a Path booked from Preston to Adlington shortly on RTT via Bolton 604U it’s an engineering one does anyone happen to know what it may be, it says diesel loco 715 tonnes Tamper prehaps

Almost certain to be a tamper.

 

[PDG1949]

I love the pencils by the way - I assume they are to aid in the penetration of hard rock?

Surely Blackpool rock isn't that hard . Anyway obviously Preston - Blackpool is in the lead....

 

[PDG1949]

Wonderful links, thank you very much.

-------------------------------------------------------

Yesterday I had the pleasure and privilege of a guided tour of several worksites between Preston and Blackpool North, by kind courtesy of Network Rail.

I had a list of prepared questions which my host has agreed to answer with thought rather than off the top of his head, I'll publish his replies in due course.

On site he used my camera to take the shots linked below.

Throughout the afternoon he spoke with impressive knowledge and understanding of the project, plus good humour and tolerance of a lay numpty.

The $64000 question he had no difficulty with - "Are we 'on' for Blackpool South at the end of January and opening for electric trains in March?" Unequivocal "Yes". Problems of supply have been resolved, the cause basically being the sheer scale of NR's projects across the land; the other threat was, as always, the weather, but the Met. say it will be generally mild for the next three months.

Please note: being open for electric trains does NOT equal electric services WILL run then, it means they CAN run from then. Presumably there will have to be training, testing and goodness knows what before the timetable change in May, when sparks should fly.

The photos are in the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157661069863633

Warm thanks to NR and my fine, friendly and professional guide.

Excellent, Dave !

Thanks and well done NR and the official who conducted the guided tour - after that, maybe Euxton - ManVic might offer a similar tour ? (Please!)

 

[LDECRexile]

Dave does a huge amount of work so I do not want to pester him - but an updated - schematic - progressometer overview would be extremely useful please and thanks ifat all possible with family etc commitments .

I think the Progressometer as a document has had its day. I was pleased to develop and drive it in the early days covering Liverpool-Manchester when going out with A4 pad and pencil drawing five bar gates of bases and masts and wires from train windows was different, productive and fun. The fact that a handful appreciated it was a bonus. Things have moved on, or, more accurately, I have moved on. I have developed the photography side from small beginnings and quite honestly it's taken over, both in scale and interest and, from feedback, in value "out there". It does not preclude factual descriptions in any way, but it definitely precludes five bar gates, I've even tried it and find myself losing the plot because I'm wanting to examine a dead foot crossing or a particular missing base, all from a speeding train window.

The second reason the P is dead in the water is Preston-Blackpool, where updating it is literally impossible because no trains run.

I still tip my cap to P on each day's train tour, when I try to write a prose summary of things done and things to do. I realise this is inconsistent and difficult for others to contribute to because it isn't in a consistent structure.

The only way I can see Son of P working would be for someone to replicate P's underlying spreadsheet, which is only the stretches between stations, and set it out as a list for people to post notes in that format, eg Salford Crescent-Clifton "three new bases on southbound side north of Agecroft Bridge" (I wish!) This would probably need a bit of maintaining and management because people will likely send in stuff higgledy-piggledy, so the "manager" will need to be able to take the view that such things are usually better than nothing. DJH1971 would seem just the chap to continue to develop the role of demanding other people do lots of work.

Photo 9260i is an interesting example of art vs science, at impression level it says "Yo! masts galore, wow fab groovy." Close examination reveals one missing base, three missing masts and lots of missing danglies. Both the wow and the detail are valuable, I think Son of P should strive to balance both views and should put the missing items in perspective, which this thread tends to be good at. My summary of the data in 9260i is "A few details to finish off, but well ahead of the game for early January."

The other, unsung and unappreciated side of the task was the enormous effort it took to persuade Murphy's to move that damned great tower thing to line up right in the background.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I hear what you are saying and I do on balance agree. I have a copy of your last one and may send a shot at it myself to see what you think. Probably Wednesday at the earliest. The easiest bit would for me to do the color representation- anyway, I will send you a preview. Thanks for everything.

 

[Elecman]

If anyone is interested there is a lecture at Istem centre Preston College on the evening of February 7th by Ryan Duff the Senior Project Manager on the Preston Blackpool Electrification scheme.

 

[DJH1971]

I think the Progressometer as a document has had its day. I was pleased to develop and drive it in the early days covering Liverpool-Manchester when going out with A4 pad and pencil drawing five bar gates of bases and masts and wires from train windows was different, productive and fun. The fact that a handful appreciated it was a bonus. Things have moved on, or, more accurately, I have moved on. I have developed the photography side from small beginnings and quite honestly it's taken over, both in scale and interest and, from feedback, in value "out there". It does not preclude factual descriptions in any way, but it definitely precludes five bar gates, I've even tried it and find myself losing the plot because I'm wanting to examine a dead foot crossing or a particular missing base, all from a speeding train window.

The second reason the P is dead in the water is Preston-Blackpool, where updating it is literally impossible because no trains run.

I still tip my cap to P on each day's train tour, when I try to write a prose summary of things done and things to do. I realise this is inconsistent and difficult for others to contribute to because it isn't in a consistent structure.

The only way I can see Son of P working would be for someone to replicate P's underlying spreadsheet, which is only the stretches between stations, and set it out as a list for people to post notes in that format, eg Salford Crescent-Clifton "three new bases on southbound side north of Agecroft Bridge" (I wish!) This would probably need a bit of maintaining and management because people will likely send in stuff higgledy-piggledy, so the "manager" will need to be able to take the view that such things are usually better than nothing. DJH1971 would seem just the chap to continue to develop the role of demanding other people do lots of work.

Photo 9260i is an interesting example of art vs science, at impression level it says "Yo! masts galore, wow fab groovy." Close examination reveals one missing base, three missing masts and lots of missing danglies. Both the wow and the detail are valuable, I think Son of P should strive to balance both views and should put the missing items in perspective, which this thread tends to be good at. My summary of the data in 9260i is "A few details to finish off, but well ahead of the game for early January."

The other, unsung and unappreciated side of the task was the enormous effort it took to persuade Murphy's to move that damned great tower thing to line up right in the background.

Just feel like the Manchester to Preston part seemed to have slowed, but least it surely can't be as bad as the GW electrification project now years behind.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

If anyone is interested there is a lecture at Istem centre Preston College on the evening of February 7th by Ryan Duff the Senior Project Manager on the Preston Blackpool Electrification scheme.

I wish I was in the UK at that time. I would definitely go to that.

9260i - one of my favorite electrification shots of the last 6 years. Well done artistic Dave.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I sent a spreadsheet trying to be Progressometer v2 to Dave. On reflection I do not like it. Nothing could be as good as that anyway. So what I am going to do is provide a weekly update compiled from peoples reports but it will be cut and pasted from Microsoft Word and thus everyone can cut and paste and edit as they please. I will try and have this done by about 15.00 Eastern tomorrow so 20.00 Greenwich

 

[LDECRexile]

My guide on Sunday's fabulous tour of Preston to Blackpool North worksites kindly agreed to answer a series of prepared questions; here they are, with his answers in his own words.

1.How can a layman tell where a neutral section starts and finishes? Do the wires look different?
Neutral sections are a long piece of insulation just over 8 metres long, you can tell it’s an NS as there will be no contact wire throughout the length and an earthed section of catenary, there will also be signs attached to OLE structures 1 mile out on the approach and on the structure prior to the NS to give the driver notice. There will also be magnets attached to the sleepers on either rail, 2 on the approach and 2 on the exit, these open the breakers on the unit so it doesn’t drag current over and then close them again once the pan is clear of the NS.

There are no NS throughout Phase 3.

2.Why are weights still used in some places in the recently wired section?
The engineering designer has kept all equipment associated with the West Coast i.e. Mk3B OLE which use the balance weights separate from the Fylde lines which is Series 2 OLE and uses Tensorex C+.

Both balance weights and Tensorex C+ are in the Series design range, so it’s the designers' discretion which in this case they have decided to separate the equipment.

3.How many electric trains will the line accommodate? Is there any danger of a Skipton, where there isn't the juice for many?
I'm not personally aware of the full details of Skipton to comment, but the value of impedance has been considered in the OHLE design, all OHLE design is integrated with other disciplines.

As usual, TOC and FOC demand decides frequency of services between Preston and Blackpool.

4.Does power come to the big box at Kirkham direct from the National Grid or from the WCML?
Kirkham TSS is connected to the grid - Preston TSC (track section cabin) has been upgraded, Kirkham and Blackpool have new TSS (traction sub station).

I have asked an engineer to expand on your question, will update in due course. (Supplementary verbal answer: the power comes from Catterall)

5.When might the first test trains run?
Awaiting confirmed dates , will update in due course

The question everyone asked was will the South and North lines reopen on their respective due dates? This was answered in my initial report - YES!

May I lead a vote of thanks to him and to Network Rail for this considerable effort. He really put himself out on our behalf.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I do not want to be a party pooper -but I just heard from an insider (impeccable source) in London, expect a delay on the Manchester - Preston section of this project. His words were - they are well behind. Do not know if this will be officially announced and NR come clean, but expect a delay folks.

 

[Viscount702]

When you say delay do you mean not ready for May timetable change. If so its unfortunate but no surprise to many. Also your news comes just as TP and Northern are starting to have timetables uploaded to OTT showing electric running on this line.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

When you say delay do you mean not ready for May timetable change. If so its unfortunate but no surprise to many. Also your news comes just as TP and Northern are starting to have timetables uploaded to OTT showing electric running on this line.

I do not know that level - my London source inside the railway community did not divulge that level of detail sorry.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

OK here is SOP January 10th 2018 (SOP = Son of Progressometer). Please copy and paste the bits that are wrong and need updating - I will keep the master and post weekly. It will only work if people contribute and let me know please. It is based on all the work by Dave (many many thanks) but I have taken all the calcs out so we no longer have colour coding or percent complete etc. This must have been a huge amount of work for Dave - I know what he means when he says the photography bit is a lot more fun!


Manchester Victoria Station West End to Manchester Victoria West Jct Fully wired 2013-5

Manchester Victoria West Jct to Deal Street Jn Fully wired 2013-5

Deal Street Jn to Salford Central east end Fully masted, wired half way as overlap

Salford Central Fully masted, no wires

Salford Central west end to Windsor Bridge South Junction All bases in place, mostly with masts, no wires

Windsor Bridge South Junction to Windsor Bridge North Junction

(includes Salfrord Crescent) Many bases in place, some with masts, no wires

Windsor Bridge North Junction to south end of Clifton station Many bases in place, some with masts, no wires

Clifton Station All bases in place, no masts, no wires

Clifton Station north end to Kearsley station south end Some bases in place, no masts, no wires.

Kearsley Station All bases in place, no masts, no wires

Kearsley Station north end to Farnworth Station south end Some bases in place, no masts, no wires.

Farnworth Station All bases in place, no masts, no wires

Farnworth station north end to Moses Gate station south end Some bases, some masts

Moses Gate station Fully masted, no wires

Moses Gate station north end to Bolton Station Many bases, some masts

Bolton station Many bases, some masts

Bolton station N end to Lostock station S end Many bases, some masts

Lostock station Some bases in place, no masts, no wires.

Lostock station north end to Horwich Parkway station south end All bases in place, mostly with masts, no wires

Horwich Parkway station Some bases in place, no masts, no wires.

Horwich Parkway station north end to Blackrod station south end All bases in place, mostly with masts, no wires

Blackrod station Some bases in place, no masts, no wires.

Blackrod station north end to Adlington station south end All bases in place, mostly with masts, no wires

Adlington station Some bases in place, no masts, no wires.

Adlington station north end to Chorley station south end Many bases, some masts

Chorley station Some bases in place, no masts, no wires.

Chorley station north end to Buckshaw Parkway station south end Many bases, some masts

Buckshaw Parkway station Some bases in place, no masts, no wires.

Buckshaw Parkway station north end to Euxton Jn All bases in place, mostly with masts, some wires



Euxton Jn to Preston Power Box Sidings Fully wired since 1974

Preston Power Box Sidings to start of Tom Benson way -multiple wires to Tom Benson Way and live.

Tom Benson Way to Salwick station Single wire on both sides of tracks

Salwick station north end to Kirkham South Jn Fully masted, no wires - perhaps odd mast missing

Kirkham South Jn to Kirkham North Jn Many bases in place, some with masts, no wires

Kirkham North Jn to Poulton-le-Fylde station south end Vast majority of bases in place, mostly with masts, no wires

Poulton-le-Fylde station south end to Poulton-le-Fylde Jn

(includes Poulton-le-F Station) Many bases in place, some with masts, no wires

Poulton-le-Fylde Jn-Layton station east end Many bases in place, some with masts, no wires

Layton station Many bases in place, some with masts, no wires

Layton station west end to Blackpool North bufferstops Many bases in place, some with masts, no wires

Ordsall Lane Jn to Windsor Bridge South Jn ('Windsor Link') All bases in place, approx half with masts, no wires

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I do not want to be a party pooper -but I just heard from an insider (impeccable source) in London, expect a delay on the Manchester - Preston section of this project. His words were - they are well behind. Do not know if this will be officially announced and NR come clean, but expect a delay folks.

NR will have to tell the TOCs, so that timetables can be reset.
It'll be a real bind to have live wires to Blackpool but not via Bolton.
But I'm sure some Blackpool electric services can start in May - to Liverpool, London and Manchester via Golborne.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Also your news comes just as TP and Northern are starting to have timetables uploaded to OTT showing electric running on this line.

ALERT - Speculation only on my part - if the Blackpool - Preston sparks project is running to time there are still options - not ideal but still options.
1) Run diesels throughout until Preston- Manchester is complete.
2) Electrics Preston - Blackpool - diesel to Manchester - creates horrendous platform problems at Preston.
3) FOCUS, FOCUS, FOCUS on Preston to Bolton and run electrics Blackpool - Bolton and diesel shuttle to Manchester stations.
4) Run Electrics via Chat Moss and diesels Preston- Bolton
5) Some combination of above

There are options albeit not necessarily good ones

 

[jyte]

ALERT - Speculation only on my part - if the Blackpool - Preston sparks project is running to time there are still options - not ideal but still options.
1)Run diesels throughout until Preston- Manchester is complete.
2) Electrics Preston - Blackpool - diesel to Manchester - creates horrendous platform problems at Preston.
3) FOCUS, FOCUS, FOCUS on Preston to Bolton and run electrics Blackpool - Bolton and diesel shuttle to Manchester stations.
4) Run via Electrics via Chat Moss and diesels Preston- Bolton
5) Some combination of above

There are options albeit not necessarily good ones

I would choose 1, provided there's the stock to cover it.

People might have to wait a little longer for newer trains but you avoid the issues with options 2-5.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I would choose 1, provided there's the stock to cover it.

People might have to wait a little longer for newer trains but you avoid the issues with options 2-5.

And I would agree - can still do the odd electric driver training run etc on the other bits.

 

[1179_Clee2]

ALERT - Speculation only on my part - if the Blackpool - Preston sparks project is running to time there are still options - not ideal but still options.
1)Run diesels throughout until Preston- Manchester is complete.
2) Electrics Preston - Blackpool - diesel to Manchester - creates horrendous platform problems at Preston.
3) FOCUS, FOCUS, FOCUS on Preston to Bolton and run electrics Blackpool - Bolton and diesel shuttle to Manchester stations.
4) Run via Electrics via Chat Moss and diesels Preston- Bolton
5) Some combination of above

There are options albeit not necessarily good ones

6) Use Class 769's which should be available IF testing goes to plan

 

[GRALISTAIR]

6) Use Class 769's which should be available IF testing goes to plan

I like it ! I am not really a bi-tri mode fan but needs must !

 

[YorkshireBear]

6) Use Class 769's which should be available IF testing goes to plan

I believe that is also behind from what some have said. Only rumours at this stage though.

 

[Viscount702]

Hasn't it been said that the whole May 18 timetable so far as it relates to TP and Northern is dependent on the wires on Preston Manchester being usable. If not the change can't take place due lack of non electric stock and the paths only working if there is electric running where planned.

 

[Elecman]

Kirkham and Blackpool TSS’s are not connected to the Grid, they are merely newer versions of Track Section Cabins.

The Grid Feeder at Catterall as well as Willow Park and eventually Stalybridge will be the supply points.

The supply voltage at Blackpool could be at the lower end of the acceptable supply limits, so does have some traffic limiting effect. ( unless Preston - Blackpool gets converted to Auto Transformer rather than Classic feed )