Blackpool - Manchester Electrification

[backontrack]

Aren't these areas what the blockade is for, later this year?

Are they or aren't they?

Do we have a date for when electrification might be finished?

 

[Whistler40145]

The blockade will be for any works that cannot be done whilst running a railway 24/7.

 

[Buck Shaw]

Piling works overnight at Buckshaw. Presumably for the platforms as either ends have been done. Much local moaning on social media as no warnings were given.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Are they or aren't they?

Do we have a date for when electrification might be finished?

Just surmising from this = May 2018 commissioning.

 

[Jamesrob637]

That'll be good. If you venture forth before then it could be even better, eg photograph tampers on new track. We have a great gang of photographers pooling material of quality ranging from near-professional to decidedly amateur, so don't be nervous of dipping your toe in. When you want to send material just send me a Private Message and I'll send you my email address. Easy peasy.

You could earn yourself an Intrepid Photographer Badge if you can take shots of the masts behind the Tarmac site at Agecroft, I haven't been able to find a way except from a train, and that's closed to us now.

Were the masts scattered around or in particular places?

Hope you can muck in in the thread's fine style.

Sadly this won't be possible now that the line will be shut for another couple of weeks :cry: but I hope that when I get my next run that way, it'll be much closer to commissioning

 

[LDECRexile]

Aren't these areas what the blockade is for, later this year?

Indeed, that's what I meant by "Blackpool and Kirkham stations are another matter, both are being significantly remodelled, so presumably all mast work will take place as a part of those possessions."

 

[CAF397]

Must say I'm very disappointed in the project between Bolton and Salford. All that effort with the new enlarged Farnworth Tunnel, allowing higher line speeds.

We end up with 75mph running (still) on the Down Bolton between Agecroft South Jn and just before Farnworth Tunnel, where it becomes 80/100MU, but then after Moses Gate it becomes 40/50, which means there's not really much point accelerating from 75 because you'd be braking harder for the 50.

On the Up Bolton it's not much better, leaving Bolton it's 40/55 that becomes 60/90MU then 75/90MU before Moses Gate station, but before Kearsley station it becomes just 75, again no train will realistically be doing 90mph line speed through Farnworth Tunnel on the Up Bolton.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Must say I'm very disappointed in the project between Bolton and Salford. All that effort with the new enlarged Farnworth Tunnel, allowing higher line speeds.

We end up with 75mph running (still) on the Down Bolton between Agecroft South Jn and just before Farnworth Tunnel, where it becomes 80/100MU, but then after Moses Gate it becomes 40/50, which means there's not really much point accelerating from 75 because you'd be braking harder for the 50.

On the Up Bolton it's not much better, leaving Bolton it's 40/55 that becomes 60/90MU then 75/90MU before Moses Gate station, but before Kearsley station it becomes just 75, again no train will realistically be doing 90mph line speed through Farnworth Tunnel on the Up Bolton.

That's all only true at the end of the Bolton blockade - it almost certainly won't be true come May 2018 (Moses Gate Bridge permitting :cry

 

[Ploughman]

Time prevented me from fleshing out my Preston-Blackpool North trip yesterday.

Kirkham is another matter, the bridge enables overviews. Most of the work installing drainage pipes appears to have been done, with rectangular boxes with blue grid tops in evidence along the whole of the eastern alignment. Blue-topped pegs have been driven into the ground south of the station bridge, can someone please explain what they marl out?

Drainage catch pits?

Blue pegs maybe a proposed drain run?

 

[Mathew S]

There are (were?) similar rectangular boxes with blue mesh tops between platforms 3 and 4 at Bolton station. I always assumed they were access grids to some kind of drain or culvert.

Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk

 

[edwin_m]

Blue mesh tops are drainage. If a pit was needed for cable runs that would have a solid top to keep the water out (if possible), and excavations/pile tops for OLE will have temporary protection such as plywood.

 

[CAF397]

That's all only true at the end of the Bolton blockade - it almost certainly won't be true come May 2018 (Moses Gate Bridge permitting :cry

What is left to do that isn't being done already? Signal locations are moving Agecroft-Bolton according to the signalling change brief we're having. Seems strange the already changed signalling Bolton-Adlington is seeing speed enhancements, but the (will be) changed signalling Agecroft-Farnworth Tunnel won't see speed enhancements until, as you highlight, next May.

 

[Darren R]

Ignoring the unexpected problem at Moses Gate, does anyone know how the work at Bolton has progressed?

Looking at the photos taken during the work around Bolton (a big thank you to all who have contributed, btw), I was struck by what appears to be the close spacing of the new signals on the Down line approaching Bolton from the south. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/35973301623/in/album-72157661069863633/) The distance between the turnout signal at Burnden Junction and the next signals on both the Down Main and the Down Passenger Loop appears to be barely more than a train's length. I presume there is a reason for this - it just struck me as unusually close together for a new signalling scheme.

 

[childwallblues]

Hopefully yes ,when the line is blocked for engineering works between Crewe to Preston and passengers do not have to put it with a bus journey.

Not on a regular basis then.

 

[Trackman]

Looking at the photos taken during the work around Bolton (a big thank you to all who have contributed, btw), I was struck by what appears to be the close spacing of the new signals on the Down line approaching Bolton from the south. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/35973301623/in/album-72157661069863633/) The distance between the turnout signal at Burnden Junction and the next signals on both the Down Main and the Down Passenger Loop appears to be barely more than a train's length. I presume there is a reason for this - it just struck me as unusually close together for a new signalling scheme.

It could be a distant signal

 

[Trackman]

P5 = 11 car Pendo.

P4 = passive provision left for extension to same as P5

A security "pod" - radar and PIR, I think, texts out alerts if triggered.

Thanks Mr. Locke, I thought it was something security wise, it looks menacing enough!

P4- the plans published say 'passive provision for 9 car Pendolino', P4 on recent photos doesn't look like it has been extended, that's why I asked. So a 9 car pendo will fit on P4 after all?

 

[driver9000]

It could be a distant signal

It isn't. Both are 4 aspect signals.

 

[Geeves]

Thanks Mr. Locke, I thought it was something security wise, it looks menacing enough!

P4- the plans published say 'passive provision for 9 car Pendolino', P4 on recent photos doesn't look like it has been extended, that's why I asked. So a 9 car pendo will fit on P4 after all?

I cant imagine there will be much chance of ever having two Pendos on 4 and 5 so the signaller will just put any Pendos on 5. No issues then.

 

[LDECRexile]

More on Moses Gate:

http://www.railtechnologymagazine.c...on-until-further-notice-after-bridge-collapse

 

[Joseph_Locke]

So many questions!

P4 (according to my notes) is 252m, whereas 9-car Pendo is 218m (+5m inaccurate stopping); but an 11-car Pendo is 266m (+5m inaccurate stopping) which is handy, 'cos P5 will be 271m long. Therefore there is at least 19 m to add to P4...

The short signal spacing on the Down into Bolton is a function of the four-aspect signalling and the fact that the speed steps from 100MU to 50 at Burnden and then the traditional 20 through the station and West Junction. Put simply, what you need to make Kearsley work at 100 is way over the top for 50 but there is no place to drop an aspect.

Internal smoke signals suggest that Bolton was / is going / has gone well and that the traditionally "difficult" bits had caught up the more "mainstream" bits, leading to some equipment installation having to wait until there was something built to bolt it to!

TBSchenker: I can't directly respond about speeds south of Kearsley, but which item of mandatory railway infrastructure have you NOT mentioned?

 

[snowball]

Press release:

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/feeds...about-upgrades-between-blackpool-and-preston/

Residents living near the railway in Blackpool and passengers who travel between the seaside resort and Preston are being invited to find out more about the next phase of upgrade work.

As part of Network Rail’s £1bn+ Great North Rail Project, work continues to complete the upgrade and electrification of the railway between Preston and Blackpool to provide passengers with a better, more reliable railway.

For safety reasons some of the work – which includes piling work to install foundations and the steel masts which will power electric trains – has to be carried out at night when trains aren’t running.

The drop in, which will take place at Blackpool North station, next Tuesday (29 August) between 2pm and 6pm, is an opportunity to find out more and ask the project team any questions.

Noel Connolly, head of programme management for Network Rail, said: “This work forms part of our Railway Upgrade Plan and will deliver better, greener and more efficient services for passengers in the north.

“I appreciate that the work could be disruptive and this drop in is a time to find out more and ask us any questions about the work and the benefits. I’d like to thank local residents for their patience while we carry this out and assure them we will take all possible measures to keep disruption to an absolute minimum.”

The drop in session form part of a regular series of events along the route where local residents are invited to speak to Network Rail staff who will be on hand to answer questions and provide more detail on the work being carried out.

To find out more about this work please visit www.networkrail.co.uk/blackpool. Any residents who cannot make the drop in and have any questions can call our 24 hour national helpline on 03457 11 41 41.

 

[LDECRexile]

I went exploring from Euxton Junction to Huyton Viaduct, Adlington today.

I've updated the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157661069863633

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

P4 (according to my notes) is 252m, whereas 9-car Pendo is 218m (+5m inaccurate stopping); but an 11-car Pendo is 266m (+5m inaccurate stopping) which is handy, 'cos P5 will be 271m long. Therefore there is at least 19 m to add to P4...

Your maths depends on having to accommodate the full length of a Pendolino at the platform edge. But there are no passenger doors at the outer ends of a 390 meaning that the platform could be shorter subject to an appropriate risk assessment and operating procedure, in particular an appropriately located stop board. I also suspect that drivers would expect to achieve rather better than 5m stopping accuracy!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Not to drag matters away from the North West, but I seem to recall 11-car Pendos 'overhang' platform 2 at Wolves, so it does currently happen elsewhere on VT.

 

[Class 170101]

The position of the starter signal would still dictate whether you could do that though.

 

[Darren R]

So many questions!

P4 (according to my notes) is 252m, whereas 9-car Pendo is 218m (+5m inaccurate stopping); but an 11-car Pendo is 266m (+5m inaccurate stopping) which is handy, 'cos P5 will be 271m long. Therefore there is at least 19 m to add to P4...

The short signal spacing on the Down into Bolton is a function of the four-aspect signalling and the fact that the speed steps from 100MU to 50 at Burnden and then the traditional 20 through the station and West Junction. Put simply, what you need to make Kearsley work at 100 is way over the top for 50 but there is no place to drop an aspect.

Internal smoke signals suggest that Bolton was / is going / has gone well and that the traditionally "difficult" bits had caught up the more "mainstream" bits, leading to some equipment installation having to wait until there was something built to bolt it to!

TBSchenker: I can't directly respond about speeds south of Kearsley, but which item of mandatory railway infrastructure have you NOT mentioned?

Thank you Mr Locke - as always we are indebted to you for your information.

It's a happy coincidence that the new platform 5 at Bolton is exactly the right length - it's funny how that worked out after all the planning that went into it!

 

[Greybeard33]

More on Moses Gate:

http://www.railtechnologymagazine.c...on-until-further-notice-after-bridge-collapse

From the linked RTM story:

The work means that the railway line between Bolton and Manchester, which has been closed since 12 August as the Orange Army carried out upgrade work in preparation for electric trains, will remain closed next week [i.e. w/c 28 August].

It is anticipated that a reduced train service will be in place for the following four weeks. The road could be closed for up to six weeks.

I wonder what "a reduced train service" means? I would not have thought it would be practical to put in a temporary crossover, to enable single line operation through Moses Gate, for such a short period.

 

[Trackman]

From the linked RTM story:


I wonder what "a reduced train service" means? I would not have thought it would be practical to put in a temporary crossover, to enable single line operation through Moses Gate, for such a short period.

Unless they mean north of the Bolton station.
I really cannot see anything going through Moses Gate whilst the work is going on.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Unless they mean north of the Bolton station.
I really cannot see anything going through Moses Gate whilst the work is going on.

I thought that, but in theory you could work (by Pilotman) on the Up from Burnden to Agecroft North, but it would only be two each way per hour at the absolute maximum.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

The position of the starter signal would still dictate whether you could do that though.

And there is no justification for the required derogation(s) as there is plenty of space on the down side to extend P4/P5 southwards, or even to fit in a second bay.