Blackpool - Manchester Electrification

[GRALISTAIR]

All of the above are Network Rails problems due to late delivery of upgrades so does it pick up the costs or pay compensation ?

I was in favour of privatization though not in the way it was done.

However, basically this means the taxpayer picks up the tab. But the way I understand it - yes - they would be entitled to compensation.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Blackpool did not want people to have to change trains at Preston from Liverpool, under your proposal passengers would also have to change trains from Manchester at Preston. Would Blackpool be in favour of this or would it object? It would only have a direct service from York to Blackpool North. Could Preston cope with so many terminating trains and passengers changing from EMU to DMU ?
A number of Class 319's are currently at Wolverton, but not all will be needed in traffic until a few months after they should have been. Are Northern paying to lease the trains ? or paying for storage costs ? or does Porterbrook pick up the cost ?
All of the above are Network Rails problems due to late delivery of upgrades so does it pick up the costs or pay compensation ?

The risk will lie with DfT.
They may even have told NR to prioritise GW over NW, as it's a higher profile project.
Arriva will get a reduced financial target if necessary.
The 319s are probably on Porterbrook's books until they are fully modified for Northern's use.
They were not due in service until Dec 2017 anyway.
I shouldn't think anybody is thinking of hiring loco-hauled 442s.
Scotrail DMU cascades are also going to be late because of EGIP wiring delays.
I guess we should just be grateful that the Ordsall Chord is on schedule.

I would guess the Airport-Blackpool will run through whatever happens.
The Hazel Grove and Victoria services might be truncated at Preston, but we don't know the wider impact of the electrification delays.

 

[snowball]

The Modern Railways item (which is by Tony Miles) says the operators re expected to seek compensation or renegotiation of aspects of their franchise agreements, though NR is maintaining in public that it is still on schedule.

 

[Class 170101]

Could be that additional access, either blockades or more weekends is added to the programme to ensure a December 2017 start.

 

[mwmbwls]

Could be that additional access, either blockades or more weekends is added to the programme to ensure a December 2017 start.

Improbable - as well as a question of possessions there is also the question of finite labour and technology resource constraints. This in turn brings us back to previous discussions as to merits/demerits of total blockades against intermittent possessions.
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Is there a trailing cross-over between Euxton Junction and Lostock Junction for emergency use? If so where is it?

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Improbable - as well as a question of possessions there is also the question of finite labour and technology resource constraints. This in turn brings us back to previous discussions as to merits/demerits of total blockades against intermittent possessions.
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Is there a trailing cross-over between Euxton Junction and Lostock Junction for emergency use? If so where is it?

One at Buckshaw and one at Blackrod.

 

[CAF397]

The one at Blackrod is signalled, frequently used when Northern run additional football trains to Horwich. Buckshaw is unsignalled, therefore emergency use only.

 

[LDECRexile]

This exchange about crossovers is an example of just how much added value there is in this thread. So many folks constructively chipping in with all sorts of skill and knowledge.

Great stuff, thank you.

 

[Whistler40145]

Has the Crossover at Buckshaw Parkway replaced the one at Chorley?

 

[Inox]

yeah.

I twittered them a couple of months back asking why they'd installed the crossover they said it was because they'd removed the one at chorley.

https://twitter.com/NetworkRailNP/status/769484114667905024

 

[Ianno87]

Has the Crossover at Buckshaw Parkway replaced the one at Chorley?

Is that a different crossover to the trailing one formerly used to access/exit the ROF sidings from/to the Down line?

 

[Elecman]

Yes that one was removed many years ago

 

[Whistler40145]

Is that a different crossover to the trailing one formerly used to access/exit the ROF sidings from/to the Down line?

The one I was relating to was the one at Chorley station itself.

 

[QueensCurve]

Yes that one was removed many years ago

Is there still a requirement for a maximum distance between crossovers?

 

[mwmbwls]

One at Buckshaw and one at Blackrod.

The one at Blackrod is signalled, frequently used when Northern run additional football trains to Horwich. Buckshaw is unsignalled, therefore emergency use only.

Many thanks for these responses. Could I ask another question – How long will the new platform 5 be?

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Many thanks for these responses. Could I ask another question – How long will the new platform 5 be?

11 car 390 plus loco.

 

[42626]

Blackrod loses some passengers on paper that buy tickets to Adlington to exempt themselves from the evening peak restrictions.

Yes totally wrong that GM residents get penalised whereas make a longer journey from outside the GM PTE area (i.e. Adlington) and a day return to Manchester is cheaper even than one from Kearsley/Swinton when I last looked.
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The vacant area adjacent to Anderton Lane crossing at Blackrod (was there actually a building here?) has now been filled in.

 

[LDECRexile]

Yes totally wrong that GM residents get penalised whereas make a longer journey from outside the GM PTE area (i.e. Adlington) and a day return to Manchester is cheaper even than one from Kearsley/Swinton when I last looked.
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The vacant area adjacent to Anderton Lane crossing at Blackrod (was there actually a building here?) has now been filled in.

Old OS maps:

1. confirm that the lane used to go under the railway, as shown here:

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17&lat=53.5956&lon=-2.5755&layers=6&b=1

2. The six inch map makes it look like there was a building here

3. The first time I went (approx 2 years ago) I thought the remains suggested a former bridge and a small building.

Meanwhile, Reg has kindly sent some shots of progress at Bolton Platform 5. I've added them to his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157671732263863

and to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157661069863633

Thank you Reg

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Old OS maps:

Just browsing, I see there is nothing at all shown on the old map west of Chorley Tunnel towards Euxton Jn.
While there was huge development around Chorley itself, the location of Buckshaw Parkway (and the previous ROF plant) is just a moss.

 

[roversfan2001]

Just browsing, I see there is nothing at all shown on the old map west of Chorley Tunnel towards Euxton Jn.
While there was huge development around Chorley itself, the location of Buckshaw Parkway (and the previous ROF plant) is just a moss.

That's obviously deliberately done.

Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Tapatalk

 

[snowball]

OS maps used to be notorious for leaving out military facilities. Ironic, given that it's the Ordnance Survey.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

OS maps used to be notorious for leaving out military facilities. Ironic, given that it's the Ordnance Survey.

It is the same in the US - no chance of seeing anything near ICBM silos for example

 

[Joseph_Locke]

It is the same in the US - no chance of seeing anything near ICBM silos for example

On the other hand, the Soviet maps from the 1970s and early 1980s have excellent details of such things.

However, we Brits do some very strange things - what tower is that, Guv?
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Meanwhile, Reg has kindly sent some shots of progress at Bolton Platform 5. I've added them to his album here:

That's for the late-running Bolton Bus Station "Skylink" - the P5 works hav'n't started yet.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

OS maps used to be notorious for leaving out military facilities. Ironic, given that it's the Ordnance Survey.

That's true for the post-war map, but I was talking about the c1890 map.
ROF Chorley only dates from the 1930s.
I was just commenting that the area was previously wholly agricultural, with just Buckshaw Hall and a couple of farms shown.
The 1955 post-WW2 map shows just the same, despite the vast ROF site being in existence!

 

[Southsider]

That's true for the post-war map, but I was talking about the c1890 map.
ROF Chorley only dates from the 1930s.
I was just commenting that the area was previously wholly agricultural, with just Buckshaw Hall and a couple of farms shown.
The 1955 post-WW2 map shows just the same, despite the vast ROF site being in existence!

The same applies to the biggest ROF site at Bishopton in Renfrewshire. I'm told that at the height of its activities during the war the local station boasted the longest platforms in Britain outside the main termini.

 

[NORMAN471]

Yes totally wrong that GM residents get penalised whereas make a longer journey from outside the GM PTE area (i.e. Adlington) and a day return to Manchester is cheaper even than one from Kearsley/Swinton when I last looked.

Would this partly be because the GM area tickets include Metrolink Travel in Manchester City Centre which would be an extra cost to tickets purchased outside the GM area and there are fewer trains stop at Adlington than Swinton and perhaps the added option of a frequent bus service from both Swinton and Kearsley.

It's just another case of Swings and Roundabouts. All the fun of the Fares.

 

[snowball]

The "Telecom Tower" is marked as a blue-shaded place of interest on my 1986 Landranger. I also have a 1970s edition somewhere but sadly can't find it right now.

 

[edwin_m]

The "Telecom Tower" is marked as a blue-shaded place of interest on my 1986 Landranger. I also have a 1970s edition somewhere but sadly can't find it right now.

Was the Telecom Tower ever a military facility? If not, how is this comment relevant?

 

[mwmbwls]

I had a chat with an Orangeperson over the weekend and asked about various observations and concerns which have been expressed on the forum. I think this is a fair summary of what I was told. Any errors or misunderstandings are mine.

5. A problem lurks in plain sight: several electric power lines cross the railway in positions which preclude erecting "our" 25kV wires. Shifting them will be neither quick nor trivial. Take a look round the 7 milepost between Clifton and Kearsley.

Has this been resolved to the best of your knowledge?

 

[LDECRexile]

That's true for the post-war map, but I was talking about the c1890 map.
... the area was previously wholly agricultural, with just Buckshaw Hall and a couple of farms shown.

Some years ago I bought an old map of Lancashire, before I had any connection with the area. As I studied it I realised it had canals on it and roads, but no railways, making it either a very naff map or dated around 1800. I've since identified it as drafted c1809, to a high standard.

It has Everton as a separate village from Liverpool and includes several hamlets which remain hamlets to this day.

More interesting to me are the places which aren't shown, notably

Widnes, Southport, Blackpool, Morecambe and Barrow

They all came later: spawn of the industrial age.
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Has this been resolved to the best of your knowledge?

I haven't been along that stretch for a while, can people who travel it please keep an eye out?
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......

That's for the late-running Bolton Bus Station "Skylink" - the P5 works hav'n't started yet.

That's a disappointment. Is P5 delayed or not yet due to start?