Blackpool - Manchester Electrification

[GRALISTAIR]

What's the latest on completion date? Was supposed to be December this year, but that went ages ago.

December 2017 but Blackpool bit will be spring 2018.

 

[Howardh]

December 2017 but Blackpool bit will be spring 2018.

Ta. That suggests to me trains going through Bolton will terminate at Preston, or continue northwards, with diesels running to Blackpool and Southport?

 

[AngelicUpstart]

Ta. That suggests to me trains going through Bolton will terminate at Preston, or continue northwards, with diesels running to Blackpool and Southport?

Preston to Blackpool North is closed November 2017 to April 2018 for a shed lot of stuff to happen.

Yes, there will be diesels running to Blackpool, but they will be of the rubber tyred variety!!!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There are four new masts up on the Down side south of Horwich Parkway (as of 1630 on the 19th October)
Where do I collect my prize?

It's points not prizes.
And I think you need a photograph...
But good news.

 

[ALX400]

There are four new masts up on the Down side south of Horwich Parkway (as of 1630 on the 19th October)

Where do I collect my prize?

So they were the ones waiting in the compound i saw , musta gone in Evening of the 18th im going to nip down at weekend get some pics cant make it before then

 

[CAF397]

Ta. That suggests to me trains going through Bolton will terminate at Preston, or continue northwards, with diesels running to Blackpool and Southport?

I was told by a Northern driver that the current Blackpool -Victoria (Huddersfield) services will transfer to 319s when Chorley gets wired, and become Victoria-Lancaster services, with a Blackpool-Preston shuttle.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I was told by a Northern driver that the current Blackpool -Victoria (Huddersfield) services will transfer to 319s when Chorley gets wired, and become Victoria-Lancaster services, with a Blackpool-Preston shuttle.

That would be a useful service.
I wonder when the penny will drop and they decide to wire the "last mile" into Morecambe?
The local DMU shuttle from Lancaster must be an expensive outpost.
It's at least as useful as Oxenholme-Windermere.

 

[Viscount702]

I noticed last night that some satellite images in Google Earth were updated in June this year. One of those covers the line from just South of Horwich to just South of Chorley. Unless my eyes are deceiving me mast bases are clearly visible

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I noticed last night that some satellite images in Google Earth were updated in June this year. One of those covers the line from just South of Horwich to just South of Chorley. Unless my eyes are deceiving me mast bases are clearly visible

That stretch is probably about 60% based (either older concrete or newer piles).
5 masts have been up south of Adlington since last Christmas, and now the new ones near Horwich.
Our problem is the complete dearth of bases on the 11 miles from west of Lostock to Agecroft through Bolton.

 

[Greybeard33]

Ta. That suggests to me trains going through Bolton will terminate at Preston, or continue northwards, with diesels running to Blackpool and Southport?

I think all Southport services are likely to run via Atherton from Dec 2017. Then when Lostock Junction to Wigan is eventually electrified all services to Wigan via Bolton will become electric and terminate at Wigan North Western.

But there will still be diesel trains from Manchester to Blackburn and Clitheroe via Bolton.

 

[edwin_m]

That would be a useful service.
I wonder when the penny will drop and they decide to wire the "last mile" into Morecambe?
The local DMU shuttle from Lancaster must be an expensive outpost.
It's at least as useful as Oxenholme-Windermere.

There will still be DMUs at Lancaster on Furness and Leeds trains, so it may not be too difficult to resource the Morcambe trains from those resources.

 

[D1009]

I think all Southport services are likely to run via Atherton from Dec 2017.

Surely there needs to be some sort of service between Bolton and Wigan, though?

 

[Greybeard33]

Surely there needs to be some sort of service between Bolton and Wigan, though?

Yes, the franchise requirement is for 2tph from Manchester to Wigan via Bolton and 4tph via Atherton. 2tph must continue to Southport and 1tph to Kirkby. If both Southport services, the Kirkby and a Wallgate terminator all run via Atherton, both Bolton services can terminate at North Western, ready for electrification.

 

[CAF397]

Almost two dozen masts up between Lostock and Horwich, staggered and clustered. Was a fantastic sight!

 

[ALX400]

Almost two dozen masts up between Lostock and Horwich, staggered and clustered. Was a fantastic sight!

Been down myself and took some photos, just waiting on Dave to upload um

Do I get points then lol we need prizes

 

[CAF397]

Over the last few weeks has seen the start of midweek blockages of the Blackpool - Preston route, with late night and early morning trains replaced by buses. Yet there doesn't seem to be anything that has changed. No Pway relaying (like there has been Bolton to Preston), or site compound construction, no visible surveying, no land clearance. Anyone know what exact work is currently taking place overnight? As far as I can recall in 2012/2013 there was a massive surveying schedule undertaken, as well as the bridge replacement. The only current bridge being rebuilt is Plymouth Road at Layton, and it doesn't need full midweek closures. The others had two or three weekend closures to remove and replace the bridge decks.

I'm not expecting the track layout to be changed, nor mast bases to appear, but again it seems to be the repeat of the Bolton line. Massive engineering time with little to be seen, resulting in requiring more possessions later on.

 

[childwallblues]

Perhaps you should go out between 0000 and 0600 to see what the orange man are up to.

I know that when they wired Edge Hill to Earlestown/Springs Branch we had a similar situation, and then suddenly mast bases appeared all over the place.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The first signs are usually "digs" or trial holes at future mast sites.
Usually a peg will mark the spot.
The resignalling will need a lot of lineside work too, before the full blockade. Although that usually happens during the day and doesn't involve line closures.
There are still lots of bases to go in on the Bolton line though.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Over the last few weeks has seen the start of midweek blockages of the Blackpool - Preston route, with late night and early morning trains replaced by buses. Yet there doesn't seem to be anything that has changed.

Well as well as being home xmas- new year from the USA when LDECRexile aka Dave and I plan a day long car bash in the area , I am also home at Thanksgiving. I know all the country roads and farmers fields in the area to Kikham so will have good shufty then and report back. Dave and I will also do the same at xmas.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Yes, the franchise requirement is for 2tph from Manchester to Wigan via Bolton and 4tph via Atherton. 2tph must continue to Southport and 1tph to Kirkby. If both Southport services, the Kirkby and a Wallgate terminator all run via Atherton, both Bolton services can terminate at North Western, ready for electrification.

Although this service pattern will bring about some unpopular changes to journey opportunities it seems highly likely that it is what will happen. The loss of through trains from Southport to both Bolton and Oxford Rd/Piccadilly will be especially unwelcome.

 

[LDECRexile]

Yippee!

First, the good news:

Wrinkley gets the bonus point for first photos, beating ALX400 by a short head.

Now the bad news, there has been a points failure, so his award will be delayed. LDECRexile Services regrets this delay to your journey.

In the meantime their efforts look pretty darned good.

I've added ALX's shots to his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157651121057352

and added Wrinkley's to his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157654034635234

I've added them all to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157661069863633

Great stuff, contractors and photographers. Thank you.

 

[Howardh]

Originally Posted by Greybeard33 View Post
Yes, the franchise requirement is for 2tph from Manchester to Wigan via Bolton and 4tph via Atherton. 2tph must continue to Southport and 1tph to Kirkby. If both Southport services, the Kirkby and a Wallgate terminator all run via Atherton, both Bolton services can terminate at North Western, ready for electrification.

Although this service pattern will bring about some unpopular changes to journey opportunities it seems highly likely that it is what will happen. The loss of through trains from Southport to both Bolton and Oxford Rd/Piccadilly will be especially unwelcome.

Don't Wiganers now have the opportunity of electric trains to Victoria and Piccadilly without going via Atherton or Bolton? If so, won't that cover any losses? Anyhow, to me it would make sense to run diesels Southport-Wigan-Atherton-Manchester and pax could change at Wigan for Bolton, although onto an electric they would have to cross the road I suppose.

 

[snowball]

Now the bad news, there has been a points failure, so his award will be delayed.

Nevertheless it's a signal achievement.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Don't Wiganers now have the opportunity of electric trains to Victoria and Piccadilly without going via Atherton or Bolton? If so, won't that cover any losses? Anyhow, to me it would make sense to run diesels Southport-Wigan-Atherton-Manchester and pax could change at Wigan for Bolton, although onto an electric they would have to cross the road I suppose.

True. But. There are plenty who commute from stations between Wigan and Southport to Bolton or Oxford Rd/Piccadilly who will be particularly unimpressed, especially those beyond Appley Bridge who don't benefit from TfGM pricing and whose journeys will be much less convenient. If timetables work then a simple change at Hindley for Bolton may not be so bad though Hindley could do with better waiting facilities on the platforms. But for Oxford Rd/Piccadilly it will almost certainly mean changing at Salford Crescent onto trains which will probably be already full. And it also seems likely that the overall frequency between Bolton/Salford Crescent and Oxford Rd/Piccadilly will be reduced to enable the pathing of all the Ordsall chord services. If only a flyover had been put in at Ordsall Lane!

On the other hand if the electric service from Wigan North Western via Bolton went across the city, perhaps all going to Hazel Grove, the reduction in convenience may be mitigated. Given that there will still be trains from the Chorley line going to Manchester Airport it would appear such a routeing choice might enable the maximum number of existing links to be maintained.

 

[WatcherZero]

Don't Wiganers now have the opportunity of electric trains to Victoria and Piccadilly without going via Atherton or Bolton? If so, won't that cover any losses? Anyhow, to me it would make sense to run diesels Southport-Wigan-Atherton-Manchester and pax could change at Wigan for Bolton, although onto an electric they would have to cross the road I suppose.

Theres to be an electric fast service from North Western to the Airport replacing the Scotland service yes.

Whats upsetting people of Southport and west of Wigan stations though (and this is leafy middle class commuter territory which is why the various MP's are answering the call) is the loss of their hourly direct service to Oxford Road/Piccadilly/Airport, all their service will now go to Victoria meaning for commuters a change of train is required to access the south and east of the city centre.

To complicate things even further Merseytravel and Lancashire CC have an aspiration of services from Kirkby/Skelmersdale or bi-modal from Liverpool itself going to the Airport as well. Quite possibly HS3/NPR forming a fourth line may free up capacity between Liverpool and Manchester to allow that to happen.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Now for the numbers.
There are 12 masts between Lostock and Horwich on the Down, 11 on the Up.
They don't have registration gear, but some have autotensioners and most have the top insulator for the AT feed.

On the base front, there are about 6 new piles on the Up at Agecroft.
Also trial holes and pegs on a stretch west of Bolton.

Chorley P1 looks virtually finished, with just some paving, fencing and lighting work going on.

Fylde Line
Definite signs of electrification work having started.
For about 3 miles out of Preston there are many mast locations prepared.
They are marked with a blue cap, with the mast number painted on the concrete cable troughing nearby.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Chorley P1 looks virtually finished, with just some paving, fencing and lighting work going on.

Just the AsBo to convince then ...

 

[deltic08]

Well as well as being home xmas- new year from the USA when LDECRexile aka Dave and I plan a day long car bash in the area , I am also home at Thanksgiving. I know all the country roads and farmers fields in the area to Kikham so will have good shufty then and report back. Dave and I will also do the same at xmas.

Snow drifts permitting!

 

[Greybeard33]

True. But. There are plenty who commute from stations between Wigan and Southport to Bolton or Oxford Rd/Piccadilly who will be particularly unimpressed, especially those beyond Appley Bridge who don't benefit from TfGM pricing and whose journeys will be much less convenient. If timetables work then a simple change at Hindley for Bolton may not be so bad though Hindley could do with better waiting facilities on the platforms. But for Oxford Rd/Piccadilly it will almost certainly mean changing at Salford Crescent onto trains which will probably be already full. And it also seems likely that the overall frequency between Bolton/Salford Crescent and Oxford Rd/Piccadilly will be reduced to enable the pathing of all the Ordsall chord services. If only a flyover had been put in at Ordsall Lane!

On the other hand if the electric service from Wigan North Western via Bolton went across the city, perhaps all going to Hazel Grove, the reduction in convenience may be mitigated. Given that there will still be trains from the Chorley line going to Manchester Airport it would appear such a routeing choice might enable the maximum number of existing links to be maintained.

Bolton will not lose frequency to Oxford Road/Piccadilly because it is to have 2tph to Hazel Grove, as well as the Blackpool to Airport service. I do not think it has been announced yet whether the second Hazel Grove service will be from Preston/Blackpool or be one of the Wigans. The other two Northern electric services from Bolton will probably go to Stalybridge via Salford Central and Victoria.

The TPE Glasgow/Edinburgh to Airport service will also stop at Bolton, but will probably be set down/pick up only at busy times.

 

[WatcherZero]

I think the other Bolton electric service will terminate at Bolton in the reinstated platform, possibly extended to Wigan when the Wigan-Bolton electrification is done.