Blackpool - Manchester Electrification

[Joseph_Locke]

I would have thought a problem like that would have been identified soon after electrification of the line was authorised, and would have been discussed with National Grid or whoever owns the cables, and resolved by now.

It was discovered within 3 months of starting the feasibility study, and is with ENW to action. This has been the case for over 18 months to my knowledge.
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Apologies that this is slightly off topic, but I think it would be a bit premature to start a separate thread on Lostock to Wigan electrification before a new schedule is published.

Travelling through Westhoughton today, it struck me (though only from looking through the carriage window) that there might be another "problem bridge" there, as and when the line is eventually electrified. The structure in question is a brick arch that carries Church Street, the B5236, over the line. It is hard against the end of the station platforms.

Yes, the next scheme off the electrification conveyor belt will be Phase 6 (Oxenholme to Windermere), before any news of Phase 7 (Lostock Junction to Wigan North Western) emerges.

 

[notlob.divad]

Yes, the next scheme off the electrification conveyor belt will be Phase 6 (Oxenholme to Windermere), before any news of Phase 7 (Lostock Junction to Wigan North Western) emerges.

Just to clarify, Phase 1 and 2 are the parts completed between Liverpool, Manchester and Wigan?

Phase 3 is Preston to Blackpool, Phase 4 is Manchester - Preston, Phase 5 is to Stalybridge, and then the two above. But Phase 3 and Phase 4 where swapped around because of track work between Preston and Blackpool. Have I understood that correctly, I know the whole project has had a lot of mission creep since it was originally envisaged and this thread combines two of the phases.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Just to clarify, Phase 1 and 2 are the parts completed between Liverpool, Manchester and Wigan?
Phase 3 is Preston to Blackpool, Phase 4 is Manchester - Preston, Phase 5 is to Stalybridge, and then the two above. But Phase 3 and Phase 4 where swapped around because of track work between Preston and Blackpool. Have I understood that correctly, I know the whole project has had a lot of mission creep since it was originally envisaged and this thread combines two of the phases.

That's about it.
Phase 1 was Manchester (Castlefield Jn)-Newton-le-Willows/Golborne Jn.
Phase 2 was Earlestown-Edge Hill and Huyton-Springs Branch (and Ordsall Lane-Victoria).

I'm not sure it matters really as the plans have been altered, and there's time to swap it all round again if priorities change.
The Ordsall Chord has overtaken some of this for instance.

 

[Viscount702]

If as seems to be the case that there are problems with phase 4 why not start earlier on Phase 5 whilst it is sorted out. Lets face it they are both supposed to be done by December 2017

 

[Joseph_Locke]

If as seems to be the case that there are problems with phase 4 why not start earlier on Phase 5 whilst it is sorted out. Lets face it they are both supposed to be done by December 2017

You're assuming phase 5 hasn't got any of these issues?

 

[Viscount702]

You're assuming phase 5 hasn't got any of these issues?

Well yes.

Many of the bridges between Victoria and Stalybridge have been rebuilt recently for electrification and I hope those involved got the sums right.

There are only three stations on the route. Stalybridge hasn't got any over bridges within 300 metres of the station.

Ashton has one at each end but both of these have been rebuilt very recently.

Victoria is the only other place. The station is for the most part already wired.

Track lowering has been done and therefore I can't see what else there is but if there is a problem here then there will be a real problem.

Also I am not aware of any low flying power cables.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

I hope those involved got the sums right.

You're funny. I like you.

To be fair, changing regulations have tripped up even the best and brightest.

 

[Viscount702]

In my job before I retired it was expected and it was essential that you kept up to date with changes and proposed changes to rules/regulations/Laws and plan for them well in advance in case they came into place whilst working on a job.That surely must be the case in any job. Failure to do so would not only likely cost a client huge sums of money but (in my case) me my job.

From posts on this forum it was my understanding that the Regulations were not suddenly changed but changed some years ago but there had been either an exemption from them being applied or they didn't come into force until March/April last year. If that is correct (I don't know if it is or not) then it seems unbelievable that they were not catered for and the problems only recently come to light.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Not wishing to pour petrol on this one, but the railway's project development lifecycle (from initial idea to start of construction) can be up to 10 years. On the various NWEP phases the bridge clearance works were typically done years prior to the start of the main works, because you know the bridge needs doing and you have so many to do you had best start so that you don't have them all shut simultaneously.

So, a year after the last bridge is reconstructed to the (then) current standard, the standard changes AND IT IS RETROSPECTIVE. Not all the bridges now comply.

But what would you have us do differently? Rebuild the bridges to a speculative standard and spent an extra 10% of the public's money? Delay the bridgeworks until after the next standards change?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Well to pour cold water rather than petrol on this, I do understand standards change. I think we all love railways, but it is just SHEER FRUSTRATION that gets to some posters. It just seems every obstacle that can get in the way does. We have beautiful progress on Farnworth tunnel (totally doing the job right and planning for the future) then the s h one tea all seems to hit the fan again on another part of the project.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

I like watching things burn.

I know why we adopted the Energy TSI, but there wasn't anything wrong with the regulations as they were before which required a change.

I'm probably wrong, but I can't recall anybody minding their own business, using a train normally, being suddenly electrocuted by the overheads at their lowest height, with or without a stationary train, nor can I recall anybody being electrocuted by the lower parapet height who wasn't doing something totally moronic that 200mm is unlikely to cure.

To my mind, it's like Daily Mail headlines - it's like bread causes cancer, well yes, but you would need to eat so much you'll die of obesity first. 25kV AC needs quite a bit of stupidity, carelessness or inattention before it'll bite.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I'm probably wrong, but I can't recall anybody minding their own business, using a train normally, being suddenly electrocuted by the overheads at their lowest height, with or without a stationary train, nor can I recall anybody being electrocuted by the lower parapet height who wasn't doing something totally moronic that 200mm is unlikely to cure.

To my mind, it's like Daily Mail headlines - it's like bread causes cancer, well yes, but you would need to eat so much you'll die of obesity first. 25kV AC needs quite a bit of stupidity, carelessness or inattention before it'll bite.

My last word on this subject because this is OT -though on this project crossings (rights of way etc) have been reduced and eliminated mainly. Level Crossing accidents - who gets the blame - railways. Who causes the problems idiotic public and road users. I love Health and Safety but it can go too far.

 

[cl19]

Looks like a number of engineers trains worked to Bolton last night - I'm guessing they might be renewing the other track near Lostock Junction following on from last weekends work

 

[QueensCurve]

Here is the Rail Engineer magazine article you're thinking of which does indeed include the point about clamping OHLE equipment to the bottom flanges of the arches:

http://www.railengineer.uk/2014/10/07/amalfi-lancashire/

It is over 40y since I visited Amalfi and I didn't recall flying arches, but here are some:-

.

 

[Lankyline]

Just for info Freightliner 66531 is at Chorley station this morning (Sun) on a ballast train. Don't know how long it's been here but departed 0945 northbound, followed in by 66953 with new sleepers, this is for the southbound section of track just beyond the old signal box. Have a couple of photos on my phone just not sure how to upload them!

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Track lowering for electrification under the two bridges south of Chorley Station. It's quite a big lower, hence the new retaining wall on that side. The Down line lower is linked to the realignment of the Down line and platform and thus the re-decking of the two subways (after the old GF crossover is recovered).

Chorley will be quite a hive of activity for the next two months...

 

[Class 170101]

Would it not have been easier to close the line either at the same time as Farnworth or following Farnworth for a continuous period rather than this 'piecemeal' weekend closure and divert through traffic via Wigan NW?

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Would it not have been easier to close the line either at the same time as Farnworth or following Farnworth for a continuous period rather than this 'piecemeal' weekend closure and divert through traffic via Wigan NW?

The line didn't close for any significant period during the Farnworth Tunnel works. Now, during the Chorley Tunnel closure ... but that was done before there was a design in place for Chorley.

 

[roversfan2001]

A 50mph TSR on the Down Fast and 90mph TSR on the Up Fast just north of Leyland have arrived these past 2 weeks, probably not linked to the electrification but I'm curious as to what has brought this speed reduction. Also, now that (temporarily at least) the Down Slow has a higher line speed than the Down Fast, why aren't the TPs and VTWCs moved onto the Down Slow, space allowing?

As I said, probably not Blackpool to Manchester electrification related, but it's on the route and not major enough to warrant a new thread.

 

[CAF397]

Both the 50TSR on the Down Fast and the 90mph TSR on the up fast are down to Condition of Track. There will be an issue with the rail or trackbed that means line speed can not be used. In the case of the Down Fast, a few weeks ago there was an ESR of 50mph on between Euxton Jn and Leyland to change a part of a rail, and indeed now between Leyland and Farington Jn it is also to change part of a rail. The Up Fast appears to be trackbed related, so could be a 'wet-bed' issue that requires a drainage solution, or something else.

It makes no sense to run fast line from Balshaw Lane Jn to Preston on the Down Slow to avoid a 50mph slack on the Down Fast. The Slow line is 75mph all the way, including braking for the junction. In the case of TPE 350s, we can do 110 all the way to Euxton Jn, then brake for the 50 just past Leyland station, then if the signals are green, accelerate back upto 80-90mph before braking for Preston. The time loss would be less than running at 75mph. Notwithstanding the killer 20mph TSR on the Down Slow approaching Preston.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Notwithstanding the killer 20mph TSR on the Down Slow approaching Preston.

Not to mention the dead stands most trains endure on the DS approaching Preston.
Needs a complete remodelling, and bringing the parcels platform back into use for passengers. And longer south-facing bays.

Probably not your route, but there's been a long-standing 75mph TSR on the Down Chat Moss to the east of Newton le Willows (where the WCML passes underneath).
Feels like it might be expensive to fix...
Then there'sthe 60mph PSR at Astley.
Lots still to do!

 

[LDECRexile]

ALX400 has kindly sent seven shots of Chorley station he took earlier today.

I've added them to his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157651121057352

and to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157661069863633

Thank you ALX400, keep 'em coming!

 

[LDECRexile]

I'm delighted to welcome a new contributor in Lankyline.

He's sent two recent shots of work at Chorley, which I've put in his new album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157670913554790

and added them to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157661069863633

Thank you Lankyline, keep 'em coming.

 

[Lankyline]

Was at Chorley station today watching them completely remove the deck above the subway, which will be rebuilt utilising new steels, 4 concrete deck slabs and either side backfilled. Talking to some of the orange army inc a guy from Spain ! they said that they were ahead of schedule, which is completion by 01.00 Mon morning, meaning they have 4 hours contingency
LDECRexile a stack of photos coming your way !

 

[LDECRexile]

ALX400 has kindly sent seven photos of today's work at Chorley.

I've added them to his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157651121057352

and to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157661069863633

Thank you ALX

Keep 'em coming Lankyline!

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Was at Chorley station today watching them completely remove the deck above the subway, which will be rebuilt utilising new steels, 4 concrete deck slabs and either side backfilled.

Just for clarification, this weekend's job is Chapel Street (public) subway - the station subway is all of 25m further north and is going to get a direct-fastened deck.

 

[LDECRexile]

Lankyline has been as good as his word and sent 14 shots of work at Chorley.

I've added them to his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157670913554790

and to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157661069863633

Thank you Lankyline

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Another 3 weeks gone and no obvious visible electrification progress between Salford and Euxton Jn.
I did a run out to Stalybridge, and route upgrade work is in progress between Baguley Fold and the M60 bridge.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Another 3 weeks gone and no obvious visible electrification progress between Salford and Euxton Jn.

I did Preston - MIA as I was catching a plane back to the USA. The only thing I saw was quite heavy civils around Chorley which we all know about. Worrisome. If you have a possession other stuff could get done - but I know I am NAIVE.

 

[SodTheDrummer]

I did Preston - MIA as I was catching a plane back to the USA. The only thing I saw was quite heavy civils around Chorley which we all know about. Worrisome. If you have a possession other stuff could get done - but I know I am NAIVE.

Maybe once Chorley is done, there will be a surge.. Here's hoping. Obviously there's the 'bridge that shall not be mentioned' to deal with, but there's plenty of other stuff to be getting on with until it can be sorted..

Is there any news on the power line issue at Kearsley? And are the lines that pass over near Clifton OK or do they need attention as well?