Blackfriars Station reconstruction and everything else...

[FrozenPoints]

Following on from this BBC article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12480813 - many moons back, it stated that part of the new station was being constructed on the former redundant piers

But, firstly, I wasn't aware of that, plus the fact the station capacity will be reduced to four, a mistake in my view. I thought Blackfriars could have the capacity for five or six on the basis of reintroducing the red redundant pier structures.

Then, with the track switch done, and I believe (when I thought the new terminus platforms were already complete), clearly that isn't the case?

If so, is my logic wrong to think the former terminus platforms are not being used for through services to Luton and Bedford and to London Bridge and Brighton - or what is the extension of the red piers for then?

Help!

 

[westcoaster]

Basically they have swapped the station around, east to west, west to east, all trains run through the station, I believe only one of the three piers will be used.

 

[DavidBusDriver]

The plan is that the through platforms were switched to the eastern side of the station, to allow for the latest RUS, namely that the Sutton services are expected to become Blackfriars terminators under the control of TfL/LOROL, and the new layout will avoid confilicting movements since the Up/Down Holborn Slows are being recommissioned.

 

[cslusarc]

I'm thinking that I would've been great if Blackfriars had 3 or 4 terminating platforms on the west side of the bridge using all of the extra two rows of red piers allowing for extra services southwards to Herne Hill. This additional traffic would've needed additional measures to reduce conflicting moves by requiring grade seperation before and after Herne Hill Railway station allowing the sorthbound line to Blackfriars to fly-over/dive-under the two lines to Victoria (Eastern) and the southbound line to Tulse Hill to fly-over/dive-under the Chatham Main Line to West Dulwich.

 

[43021HST]

Anyone noticed how the article is littered with some dodgy sayings like "Soon we will have the sexiest railway station in the UK, and I intend to make it our unique selling point," says Carol Anderson. How can a Railway station be sexy? Its a ******* building. Unless that woman has a building fetish she must be loony.

"It will be a really fast and reliable turn-up-and-go rail service," boasts London assembly member Caroline Pidgeon. "Once it's up-and-running, people will say, 'Oh my God, this is amazing.'"
What? brainless illiterate thickos like you?

This article reads like its been written by a businessman who's trying to appeal to the proles, whos failing badly; its down-right patronising.

 

[FrozenPoints]

It seems hideous with the amount of money being spent, despite the increase in thru platform capacity handling per hour, the terminus platforms are being reduced.

Yes, money is always an issue but if it recommissoned all three piers rather than just the one, could it bring back one or two platforms to bring it to six?

 

[The Barlow Boy]

Anyone noticed how the article is littered with some dodgy sayings like "Soon we will have the sexiest railway station in the UK, and I intend to make it our unique selling point," says Carol Anderson. How can a Railway station be sexy? Its a ******* building. Unless that woman has a building fetish she must be loony.

"It will be a really fast and reliable turn-up-and-go rail service," boasts London assembly member Caroline Pidgeon. "Once it's up-and-running, people will say, 'Oh my God, this is amazing.'"
What? brainless illiterate thickos like you?

This article reads like its been written by a businessman who's trying to appeal to the proles, whos failing badly; its down-right patronising.

I've read and re-read the article. It gives an upbeat account of what's happening. perhaps you'd have preferred a press release along the lines of, "Blackfriars railway station is being rebuilt to allow more frequent services. We're sorry for the disruption".

 

[autotank]

I think it is a well written article and praises the work of engineers who often get too much stick for causing disruption. When Thameslink and Crossrail are running they will provide the capital with a truly world class transport infrastructure.

 

[jopsuk]

FrozenPoints- part of the idea is that there's a lot less need for terminus platforms; that far more of the routes using Blackfriars will be through trains (with, as said, the main terminating services being Sutton Loop trains).

 

[swt_passenger]

The plan is that the through platforms were switched to the eastern side of the station, to allow for the latest RUS, namely that the Sutton services are expected to become Blackfriars terminators under the control of TfL/LOROL, and the new layout will avoid confilicting movements since the Up/Down Holborn Slows are being recommissioned.

It's the other way round to be accurate really. The RUS didn't decide on the layout, it reacted to the layout that was required to give the service frequency through London Bridge.

Personally I think it's far more likely that the Sutton services will go to Southern - one of the options in the SL RUS is to run them at 4 tph round the loop and into London Bridge.

AIUI there's an agreement LO can't do mainline terminal stations (except Euston on the DC) - one of the options suggested for the SLL was for LO to run into Victoria, but it wasn't allowed by DfT. There has been loads of talk about TfL taking more control of services in the South London area - but the momentum was probably lost when the current SN franchise was let - the solution chosen was longer service hours and more staff. I think the problem is that the complexity of the routes when looked at collectively means it is all or nothing, giving a small area to LO wouldn't make it any easier to operate.

Lastly, any role for LO at Blackfriars has never surfaced in any of TfL's future proposals in various online papers over the last few years...

 

[bangor-toad]

Hi there,
Why will there be 2 through platforms and 2 terminating?
There simply isn't the space for more.

The old bridge pillars are being used to support the new terminating platform. These are going to be longer, aren't the platforms at Blackfriars are being extended to 12 coaches long?

If you look at the space available then here needs to be a bit of space used at the north side to slew the through tracks over to the east side. On the southern side of the river, there is now an office block built on the old allignment.

The get an additional terminating platform in you'd need to either:
a) Reduce the length of the terminating platforms to allow space for the throat on the southern side of the station
b) Demolish the large office block on the south bank
c) Rebuild the bridges taking the track into Snow Hill tunnel (which would probably mean demolishing the office blocks built around it) to allow the terminating platforms to move further north.

Option a) isn't going to sit well in terms of operational use. Options b) and c) would have be stunningly expensive and would have destroyed any BCR ratio which would in term have not allowed the project to progress in that form.

Overall I think that it's going to be an effective layout they've chosen with the capability to handle many services. I look forward to having a look at the completed station.

Cheers,
Jason

ps If you look at aerial photos of the station, you'll see these buildings...

 

[Bald Rick]

The whole principle of Thameslink is cross London services, which by its very nature means fewer terminating trains thus fewer terminus platforms. Why spend money (our money remember) on infrastructure that isn't needed?

 

[43021HST]

I've read and re-read the article. It gives an upbeat account of what's happening. perhaps you'd have preferred a press release along the lines of, "Blackfriars railway station is being rebuilt to allow more frequent services. We're sorry for the disruption".

I would prefer this.
Blackfriars railway station is being rebuilt to allow more frequent services, so you farting waddling skittles can get to work on time, but in the mean time necessary engineering works will take place, so you're going to have like it or lump it you moany old gits.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think it is a well written article and praises the work of engineers who often get too much stick for causing disruption. When Thameslink and Crossrail are running they will provide the capital with a truly world class transport infrastructure.

Its a badly written article which I find too patronising. Anyway Crossrail wont be as amazing as you think its going to be, cuts will keep being made to the budget so the stations wont look as nice and the trains are built to a cheaper quality. By the way I agree with Crossrail going ahead. I just reckon it wont be as grand as its originally proposed to be.

 

[jon0844]

I hope the Crossrail stations all look as nice as Stratford International does.

It's nice to see we can create something to show future generations that we didn't learn anything from Milton Keynes in the 1960s.

 

[Hydro]

I hope the Crossrail stations all look as nice as Stratford International does.

A poured concrete trench? The few occasions I've had to use Stratford International it has always struck me as to how bleak and featureless it is. It is quite literally a grey hole. It's a very eerie place during quiet periods (most of the time it seems, at the moment).

 

[jon0844]

It's horrid isn't it. I hope they're going to paint the walls, or cover them with posters or something for the Olympics.

 

[Hydro]

The main ticket hall at Stratford International reminds me of a reactor hall in a nuclear power station. Huge, mostly empty and eerily quiet, with a few staff members peering at stuff. Contrast with Stratford mainline station, which again reminds me of a nuclear reactor hall....in 1986 Chernobyl; pandemonium, no clear exit, shouting Eastern European accents and if you stay too long, you'll probably be killed.

 

[jon0844]

Stratford International looks and feels cold, so the power station reference seems very apt.

At the normal station, you won't get cold as you run around trying to find where you are going and seeing many places where there are no signs (and those that are there are hidden) leaving you to just guess where the hell you're going. The result of what I presume was a smaller station that kept getting expanded over time.

 

[43021HST]

Stratford International looks and feels cold, so the power station reference seems very apt.

At the normal station, you won't get cold as you run around trying to find where you are going and seeing many places where there are no signs (and those that are there are hidden) leaving you to just guess where the hell you're going. The result of what I presume was a smaller station that kept getting expanded over time.

The most anying thing about Stratford is that theres is no main concourse with destination boards. you just have to peer at some mimsy little screens that have been put up in random locations.

 

[jon0844]

Designed to keep you on your toes!

I'm sure it will all be fine and dandy come the Olympics!

 

[MikeWh]

The whole principle of Thameslink is cross London services, which by its very nature means fewer terminating trains thus fewer terminus platforms. Why spend money (our money remember) on infrastructure that isn't needed?

Will the terminating platforms be used by Southeastern suburban services again, as they were before they shut?

 

[swt_passenger]

Will the terminating platforms be used by Southeastern suburban services again, as they were before they shut?

Yes, almost certainly. The South London RUS, although a few years old now (2008), has a diagram showing the likely service patterns, and the bay platforms end up with a peak 8 tph,

"9.6.2
...the services at present envisaged to terminate at Blackfriars from
2015 are:
4 tph Wimbledon Loop
2tph from Kent House
2tph semi-fast service from the Medway area and/or Maidstone line."

The line diagram shows Rochester as the latter origin, but I guess it is tbd.

The more recent RUS's such as those for Sussex and Kent haven't shown anything different.