Blackfriars Bays - use in the May 2012 timetable.

[swt_passenger]

By May this year, the two Blackfriars bay platforms should be reopened.

So, is there any confirmation yet of which services will terminate there normally? IIRC the various Southeastern services that were effectively 'linked up' with Thameslink Moorgate services (to produce the Key Output 0 timetable) still need to run through the core for the same reason.

Will there be any additional Southeastern services diverted into Blackfriars and terminating? I'm surprised there doesn't seem to be anything in teh public domain yet.

I've intentionally kept this question separate from the one about future Sutton/Wimbledon loop services to avoid confusion, because that one concerns the relatively long term (6 yrs) future.

 

[87015]

Don't think they will get any regular use, just a small selection of late night and perhaps early morning Sevenoaks.

 

[cjohnson]

The new Sunday services of Sutton via Mitcham trains will start/terminate at Blackfriars (Sutton via Wimbledon services will, as now, go through the core).

 

[Class377/5]

By May this year, the two Blackfriars bay platforms should be reopened.

So, is there any confirmation yet of which services will terminate there normally? IIRC the various Southeastern services that were effectively 'linked up' with Thameslink Moorgate services (to produce the Key Output 0 timetable) still need to run through the core for the same reason.

Will there be any additional Southeastern services diverted into Blackfriars and terminating? I'm surprised there doesn't seem to be anything in teh public domain yet.

I've intentionally kept this question separate from the one about future Sutton/Wimbledon loop services to avoid confusion, because that one concerns the relatively long term (6 yrs) future.

Weekday timetable is as now with one or two at the end/start of the timetable FCC/SE services that will use the bays.

Saturday - I believe Sevenoaks but didn't have tha 100% confirmed.

Sunday - a FCC Blackfriars - Sutton via Mitcham service as well as Southeastern services. (Note the via Wimbledon Sutton service goes through the Core). Sunday's will see less train miles over all with 2tph to Brighton and 2toh to East Croydon from Bedford.

 

[swt_passenger]

Sunday - a FCC Blackfriars - Sutton via Mitcham service as well as Southeastern services. (Note the via Wimbledon Sutton service goes through the Core).

Will they be 'joined across Sutton' in practice, or does it really mean FCC trains terminating at Sutton from both directions?

 

[cjohnson]

Will they be 'joined across Sutton' in practice, or does it really mean FCC trains terminating at Sutton from both directions?

Looks like it - from what I can make out on Open Train Times it'll be Blackfriars bay - Mitcham - Sutton (3/4 min wait) - Wimbledon - Blackfriars - St Albans, and then back again.

 

[swt_passenger]

Looks like it - from what I can make out on Open Train Times it'll be Blackfriars bay - Mitcham - Sutton (3/4 min wait) - Wimbledon - Blackfriars - St Albans, and then back again.

Interesting, I'd forgotten opentraintimes might have it already. What date are you checking, I guess you have to edit the URL, as the dates in the drop down box are limited to the current period?

 

[cjohnson]

Interesting, I'd forgotten opentraintimes might have it already. What date are you checking, I guess you have to edit the URL, as the dates in the drop down box are limited to the current period?

27 May is the first Sunday of the new timetable - was using this link (for Sutton), comparing the times/platforms of (say) 2O69 and 2O70.

 

[swt_passenger]

27 May is the first Sunday of the new timetable - was using this link (for Sutton), comparing the times/platforms of (say) 2O69 and 2O70.

Brilliant, thanks.

I'll stop looking at May 13 and May 20 then - which are theoretically in the new period as far as the NRTT is concerned... :roll:

 

[cjohnson]

I'll stop looking at May 13 and May 20 then - which are theoretically in the new period as far as the NRTT is concerned... :roll:

Ah, maybe that is the new timetable period; but for whatever reason Sunday 27th May is the first day for those new services!

 

[Class377/5]

I've got down May 20th as the start of the next timetable. I don't actually hav te new timetable to hand, just been told the 'service' pattern pretty much same as pre December 2008 from what I'm told (wasn't with FCC then). wouldn't be surprised if they weren't jointed up operationally to be honest. Reversing at Sutton isn't ideal. Then again neither is East Croydon.

Edit - wrong date initially put.

 

[swt_passenger]

I've got down May 29th as the start of the next timetable. I don't actually hav te new timetable to hand, just been told the 'service' pattern pretty much same as pre December 2008 from what I'm told...

Everything you suggested earlier about weeekday evenings, and Sat and Sun, is basically showing in opentraintimes for relevant days from that week.

It does strongly suggest the bays will not see trains during the weekday 'daytime', with the relevant SE services still running through to Kentish Town as now until mid evening.

BTW one service I noted that I half expected to be diverted to a bay platform is that early train from Orpington that currently terminates at City T/L at 0619, and reverses in Smithfield CHS to form a Sevenoaks departure, but that seems to carry on as now. Must be a popular destination at that time of day?

 

[Class377/5]

Everything you suggested earlier about weeekday evenings, and Sat and Sun, is basically showing in opentraintimes for relevant days from that week.

It does strongly suggest the bays will not see trains during the weekday 'daytime', with the relevant SE services still running through to Kentish Town as now until mid evening.

BTW one service I noted that I half expected to be diverted to a bay platform is that early train from Orpington that currently terminates at City T/L at 0619, and reverses in Smithfield CHS to form a Sevenoaks departure, but that seems to carry on as now. Must be a popular destination at that time of day?

That's why I put weekdays is pretty much as is now in an earlier post. When I said same as pre December 2008, I should have been clearer, this was meant the weekends only.

There will be some services in the bays weekend days but I don't have the full info. Don't think it's a daily thing, the info I got was very general and only related to FCC services.

That train surprisingly always had people on at City terminating and the service back. Not many but always surprised me. I'm guessing the earlier train that currently reverses in platform at City (it did a year ago) is also going to the bays. Mainly as these two are pure SE services.

 

[swt_passenger]

There will be some services in the bays weekend days...

That's what I meant.

I should have written 'weekday evenings, and Sat Sun all day' etc, which might have been clearer.

For a first approximation, Southeastern seem to be running a half hourly Sevenoaks service to/from Blackfriars on both Sat and Sun.

 

[swt_passenger]

One of the odd things about the 'new' Blackfriars to Sutton Sunday service is that although it links to the St albans Sutton service, journey planners show journeys through Sutton such as St Helier to Mitcham Jn as requiring a change.

However NRES has the following note next to a big red warning triangle:

"First Capital Connect journeys through Sutton
If a journey through Sutton shows a train connection at Sutton of less than 5 minutes,
the journey can be completed on the original train. No change of trains will be necessary."

So the question is, why don't they just treat this as a St Albans to Blackfriars via Sutton service? It isn't as though 'A-B via B' services don't exist elsewhere, it's the same as Salisbury to Romsey via Romsey in some respects...

 

[12CSVT]

On a weekday there are still engineering possessions during the day from about 0800 to 2000, with the bays fenced off from the public. Last week the bays were a hive of activity with road/rail vehicles.

Last passenger train off platform 3 in the mornings is the 06:42 Blackfriars - Sevenoaks (319 unit)
Then, just after 20:00, an 8 car 465 arrives platform 3 as E.C.S. which splits to form 21:42 and 22:12 departures to Sevenoaks.

Platform 3 is in use throughout the day on Saturdays.

 

[Class377/5]

One of the odd things about the 'new' Blackfriars to Sutton Sunday service is that although it links to the St albans Sutton service, journey planners show journeys through Sutton such as St Helier to Mitcham Jn as requiring a change.

So the question is, why don't they just treat this as a St Albans to Blackfriars via Sutton service? It isn't as though 'A-B via B' services don't exist elsewhere, it's the same as Salisbury to Romsey via Romsey in some respects...

Because people found it confusing around the loop. For example at Streaham the Blackfrairs service via Sutton would be long than a Luton or St Albans but people just see the initial stop. Passenger groups requested the change from Wimbledon (via Sutton) and Sutton (via Wimbledon) services due to confusion and this is an extenstion of this.

On a weekday there are still engineering possessions during the day from about 0800 to 2000, with the bays fenced off from the public. Last week the bays were a hive of activity with road/rail vehicles.

Last passenger train off platform 3 in the mornings is the 06:42 Blackfriars - Sevenoaks (319 unit)
Then, just after 20:00, an 8 car 465 arrives platform 3 as E.C.S. which splits to form 21:42 and 22:12 departures to Sevenoaks.

Platform 3 is in use throughout the day on Saturdays.

The weekday possessions will continue while they finish the bays off. Currently looking like July for that.

 

[swt_passenger]

Because people found it confusing around the loop. For example at Streaham the Blackfrairs service via Sutton would be long than a Luton or St Albans but people just see the initial stop. Passenger groups requested the change from Wimbledon (via Sutton) and Sutton (via Wimbledon) services due to confusion and this is an extenstion of this.

Ah I see. So (as LDBs now show) the southbound weekday train destinations are either just 'Sutton' or 'Sutton via Wimbledon'. Makes sense in that case.