Best ever train to run on UK mainline (excluding HS1)

[Topological]

I'd say much better than the Mk3, as the IC70 is the worst seat to have ever disgraced the UK rail system. Yes, even worse than a collapsed Sophia.

But with the new seats installed they kick the Mk3 firmly into a cocked hat.

I am not so negative about the IC70, but definitely newer seats are progress.

Taking the old MK3 to London from Manchester was nice, but the Pendolino has made the journey better, quicker and more frequent. Whether VHF could have been delivered with mk3 I do not know, but it transformed the WCML.

All that said I would probably vote for the HST of old, I am glad I had enough years of being able to ride them before they began to be run down. The current HST just makes me sad.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I am not so negative about the IC70, but definitely newer seats are progress.

I think it's the size of me, I'm 6' 4" and built like the proverbial...rugby player - I just don't fit comfortably in an IC70. I'm sure for those who do fit they're decent enough, I don't recall hating them when I was a kid.

 

[cambsy]

The best trains to ever run in my opinion, are based on ride,ambience and performance, here are my opinions;

The best overall train would be HST and loco hauled MK3’s, as they were very comfortable and rode well, and just great trains, and pretty much saved BR when they came out, revolutionised train travel with their 125mph top speed.

The 225’s when they came out, as they were a step change on the ECML, with power doors, improved ambience and speed, as they were able to do 140 mph, which the drivers of the time, though un official, definitely took advantage of the 140 mph capability when Running late etc, especially on the 3hr 59 min London-Edinburgh Scottish Pullmans, I had some very fast runs on these services.

These are controversial, but I’d say the 390 Pendolino’s are worth a shout, as they were a step change in speed and performance on the WCML, with their tilting capability and 125mph speed, transforming this main route up to the top league along with ECML, Though not good as HST for ambience etc, with their more cramped interior due to tilting profile, and ride from tilting, though this never bothered me and like the tilting experience.

I think from recent trains I have rode on, the best have been the Stadler Flirts, as they perform very well and truly fly, and have decent ambience and seem really well built and put together, but being Basher from 80’s and 90’s I’ll always think best trains were 37’s, Deltics etc, as just a great sounding Loco and Mk1 or MK 2 coaching stock just knocks any modern bland and boring train out of the water for me.

 

[Irascible]

As a passenger experience I'm still sticking with aircon Mk2 ( most of my time was in 2e, which didn't have the newer interior ). They weren't the quietest things ever(!) - especially with the brakes on - but I haven't been on anything since that's got enough things right to feel better.

 

[harz99]

Firstly a class 55 Deltic and Mk2f carriages, and secondly an IC125 with the initial seat refresh (one piece backrest and sprung padded seat squab in red pattern moquette replacing original fittings), all in standard class.

 

[MarkWiles]

Class 323.

Why?

Because they replaced the Godawful Class 304. Sorry, but their bungee suspension and those bouncy trampoline seats combined to make for an awful passenger experience. By comparison the 323 was a perfect combination of comfortable seating, good ride and good acceleration. They were also good as local service trains (the kind most people travel on day to day) but could also do well as a regional semi-fast getting up to speed en-route.

My Inter-City journeys compared to the thousands of miles I put in on 323s were few and far between but I echo the comments about the IC70 seat. Awful when new in the vile turquoise covers and only marginally better when the seat cushions were redesigned and upholstered in the Red Dogger upholstery.

I also will nominate the 150 - given BR was up against it financially to turn out such a reliable, long-lived unit despite having to cut costs to keep the Provincial services going was a technical tour de force.

 

[43096]

Class 323.

Why?

Because they replaced the Godawful Class 304. Sorry, but their bungee suspension and those bouncy trampoline seats combined to make for an awful passenger experience. By comparison the 323 was a perfect combination of comfortable seating, good ride and good acceleration.

The 323s were a massive step-change from the 304s. Excellent trains those 323s.

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

Greater Anglia Class 755

 

[Bletchleyite]

As a passenger experience I'm still sticking with aircon Mk2 ( most of my time was in 2e, which didn't have the newer interior ). They weren't the quietest things ever(!) - especially with the brakes on - but I haven't been on anything since that's got enough things right to feel better.

I found the headrest wings got in the way of my shoulders, forcing me to slouch. To me the best Mk2s were the ones that had the IC70 type cushions in the Mk2 style seat shell (without a centre armrest) as I could fit in those (which is why I think people who fit IC70s like them).

 

[DarloRich]

HST. End debate. Close thread

( at least for modern era vehicles)

 

[Bletchleyite]

HST. End debate. Close thread

Not unless they fit power doors and non-IC70 seating. That's why I think the 442 was the ultimate Mk3.

I suppose you could argue GWR have that, but they ruined it with the blue lighting.

 

[DarloRich]

Not unless they fit power doors and non-IC70 seating. That's why I think the 442 was the ultimate Mk3.

I suppose you could argue GWR have that, but they ruined it with the blue lighting.

we are talking broad concepts.

 

[The exile]

These are relatively minor gripes, though, and they weren't even particular downsides in their time. A perfect train hasn't been created (yet?).

Having said that, given the dodgy ventilation / air-con, the atmosphere inside the 57xxx car when smoking was still a thing was vile!

 

[yorkie]

Not unless they fit power doors and non-IC70 seating. That's why I think the 442 was the ultimate Mk3.

I suppose you could argue GWR have that, but they ruined it with the blue lighting.

Just a gentle reminder can we please stick to actual trains rather than theoretical 'what if' scenarios in this thread, thanks

 

[RailWonderer]

Commuter: 442s and 444s.
Regional: 158 and 755.
IC: Pendolinos and the 745.

If a Stadler Giruno was ordered we may have a winner. I'm judging solely about ride quaity as configurations can vary greatly i.e. 158 original vs Fainsa seating. The Lumo and new Pendolino seating is approaching IET levels of legroom which previously only Desiros offered. 225s get an honourable mention.

 

[NSEWonderer]

Highspeed: Class 395s. Solid built AT300s
Commuter: 444 or 745s

 

[Express380]

GWR/Northern 3 car 158s

 

[signed]

Is it because this train is designed to do higher speeds or are there other reasons

Everything below :

It was the flagship of a major cross border/ multi country project that built a tunnel under the sea. So there was little room for getting it wrong. Also designed during a time when it wasn't all about squeezing every penny possible out of a new train making it as cheap as possible ( great thought went into the passenger experience I imagine).

+

• It's a loco-hauled train, so you pack most equipment in the power cars, you have a LOT more space to work with in the passenger cars (EMUs don't have that, and must have all the equipment under/over the cabin) and that means you also have less noise inside the cabin.
• The Jacobs Bogey (one bogey for two cars), along with evident safety benefits means you don't have the wheels immediately under you further limiting noise production.
• Cabins on continental TGV, even if they've come quite downhill in 2nd with the most recent Océane (grey and blue) refurbishment, (while the new red and black 1st is a CLEAR upgrade from the older 1sts), are one of the absolute best (IMHO, for the 2nd the older ones were better) cabins in standard passenger trains in Continental Europe (ex aequo with the AnseldoBreda ZF1000 running on Italian Frecciarossas). Siemens doesn't know how to build comfortable High-Speed train cabins compared to that (seats are sooo thin, beit in any versions, DB or Renfe).

Starting from such base means that, even though the loading gauge is smaller on 373s (it always looked weird, especially in early Eurostar liveries or even in TER GV service (yes, a regional, reservation-exempt, services is operated by former 373 sets)), you can really get some nice seats in there and just have space you don't have in most EMUs.

 

[Class15]

Class 87 + Mk3.

 

[Juniper Driver]

The HST

Southern 4Ceps and Eastern Class 309's before refurbishment

Yes the HST.

 

[Archie810]

nobody will agree but Class 332

 

[devon_belle]

Electrostars would get my vote. Perhaps not as glamorous or comfortable as historical flagship trains, but they are functional and serve their purpose very well.

HSTs were nice but very cramped and slow compared to their contemporaries at the end of their life. Though the buffet cars are sorely missed (as a concept, rather than the HST-specific execution).

 

[renegademaster]

Electrostars would get my vote. Perhaps not as glamorous or comfortable as historical flagship trains, but they are functional and serve their purpose very well.

HSTs were nice but very cramped and slow compared to their contemporaries at the end of their life. Though the buffet cars are sorely missed (as a concept, rather than the HST-specific execution).

The more comfortable older 377 2x2 mostly tables configuration is basically a modern day TSO but more comfy imo. Very underrated train. Does its role very well. Very good reliability considering how thin margins Southern have been running on since they got rid of their 455s.

 

[QSK19]

HST and Pendo.

To offer a different angle, in terms of upcoming trains with the potential to be the best, I think the (long-awaited!) 810 could be a contender so long as the spec lives up to the hype thus far and has addressed the well-discussed issues with 80x. A lot of work has gone into the 810 and hopefully that pays off.

 

[ComUtoR]

GTR 700's

 

[devon_belle]

GTR 700's

Brave!

 

[Irascible]

I found the headrest wings got in the way of my shoulders, forcing me to slouch. To me the best Mk2s were the ones that had the IC70 type cushions in the Mk2 style seat shell (without a centre armrest) as I could fit in those (which is why I think people who fit IC70s like them).

I can see that - I'm fractionally over 5' 10", so no worries there. Also when the seats started softening a bit and weren't replaced that probably helped

 

[yorksrob]

They (4-CEP etc) only needed bouncy seats to cope with the terrible ride from the track and suspension! Agree that the refurb seats were rock hard by comparison. But there’s no way that basically an electric Mk1 was the best ever train.

If you're sat on a train for several hours, bouncy seats go a long way to alleviating a sore bottom, regardless of ride.

Phase 1CIG is just as good without the hard seated refurbishment.

It's a toss up between those and IC125 for me.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

They were a real let-down after the mark 3s they replaced. Felt really cramped.
Branson wanted rail travel to be like air travel. Unfortunately, air travel for the non-business-class majority is far less pleasant than rail travel. But Branson wouldn't know that.

Not much to do with Branson, 390s were the best Alstom-Fiat could muster on the twisting WCML.
87+Mk3 couldn't give you 390 journey times, and not all WCML trains were Mk3.
Just enjoy the rock-solid ride in a 390 at speed and full-tilt - no equal on the network.

 

[Mzzzs]

Class 365 always happy to see you