Bermondsey dive under open

[IKB]

Will any Southern services normally be booked to use line 8 in the final layout though? The Stage 4 layout sketches in the 2014 presentation suggest (by colour coding) that line 8 is Southeastern's; and the signalling diagrams pages 40/41 in the same pdf suggest it is nearly all an up direction only line?

Not sure if booked to use it, but it is currently signalled in the Down direction and the Sectional Appendix labels it as a Down line. According to the diagram I have 8 & 9 merge at Spa Road.

 

[Bald Rick]

Not sure if booked to use it, but it is currently signalled in the Down direction and the Sectional Appendix labels it as a Down line. According to the diagram I have 8 & 9 merge at Spa Road.

The short part of Line 8 comes out of use this Christmas, and is then 'repurposed' as an up line for SE services. It won't see use as a down line, and I'm reasonably sure the down signalling is removed.

 

[IKB]

The short part of Line 8 comes out of use this Christmas, and is then 'repurposed' as an up line for SE services. It won't see use as a down line, and I'm reasonably sure the down signalling is removed.

Interesting, thanks. I thought I saw a switched on Down signal or two in last couple of weeks, but could of since disappeared.

The Stage 4 layout sketches in the 2014 presentation suggest (by colour coding) that line 8 is Southeastern's; and the signalling diagrams pages 40/41 in the same pdf suggest it is nearly all an up direction only line?

You are correct then, my diagram must show what is currently in place, not what will be in future

 

[physics34]

The short part of Line 8 comes out of use this Christmas, and is then 'repurposed' as an up line for SE services. It won't see use as a down line, and I'm reasonably sure the down signalling is removed.

yeh thats roughly what i was told. Line 8 was just a "bonus" for a while for us SOuthern drivers!

 

[carriageline]

The short part of Line 8 comes out of use this Christmas, and is then 'repurposed' as an up line for SE services. It won't see use as a down line, and I'm reasonably sure the down signalling is removed.

Seeing the signalling diagrams for the final layout has the down signalling in place. But only as a way to get from the Eastern side to the central side.


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[physics34]

Just seen the route pack that is being handed out to staff.
All pretty straight forward. Should solve a few issues.

Southern drivers have started the route briefing but it might be tight to get all drivers who sign LBG to get their briefing before the 27th! We'll see!

 

[ijmad]

So one of the tracks under the dive-under is being brought in to service during Christmas engineering works, right? Presumably the down for Southern services, correct?

 

[carriageline]

Correct. Down Sussex Slow through the BDU is commissioned on the morning of the 27th.


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[physics34]

on schedule to open tomorrow then i guess?

 

[carriageline]

All opened up! Now to see if all the drivers sign the route


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[Sunset route]

All opened up! Now to see if all the drivers sign the route


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Well one at least lol

 

[carriageline]

Well one at least lol

Yep, the less said about that the better


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[MotCO]

Yep, the less said about that the better


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What would happen if a driver approached the area and realised s/he was being sent via the Dive Under when they had not been signed for it? Are there any circumstances when they would go down an unsigned route when conveying passengers?

 

[carriageline]

What would happen if a driver approached the area and realised s/he was being sent via the Dive Under when they had not been signed for it? Are there any circumstances when they would go down an unsigned route when conveying passengers?

Drivers won't go down an unsigned route AT ALL, unless there is a driver in the cab who signs the route and can "conduct" the driver and tell him where signals are, what the speed is, and stations etc etc.

Drivers will realise they are going towards the BDU by the signals they are getting, what junction indicators are lit etc. If a driver goes past the signal and realises he doesn't sign the route, then he changes ends, makes a wrong direction move back behind the signal, then goes the correct way.


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[Chrisgr31]

Well one at least lol

That's one of ours. Seems "some" drivers have not been taught the route. Does that in reality mean some have but most haven't! Ah well will make the overtime ban have a greater impact!

 

[QueensCurve]

Drivers will realise they are going towards the BDU by the signals they are getting, what junction indicators are lit etc. If a driver goes past the signal and realises he doesn't sign the route, then he changes ends, makes a wrong direction move back behind the signal, then goes the correct way.

What is the procedure to get authority for that?

 

[bengley]

We don't sign it separately to the other lines - it's part of the route. We were all given a brief to look at and that was our only way of 'signing' it as there were no passenger or training trains over it before it opened.

I worked over it today (incidentally this was also my first passenger working since passing out as a driver) and it's a lot better than the reversibles. Much faster and smoother, it's quite cool flying through it at 50mph (there's a TSR on it, it will be 60 once lifted.)

 

[rebmcr]

We don't sign it separately to the other lines - it's part of the route. We were all given a brief to look at and that was our only way of 'signing' it as there were no passenger or training trains over it before it opened.

I worked over it today (incidentally this was also my first passenger working since passing out as a driver) and it's a lot better than the reversibles. Much faster and smoother, it's quite cool flying through it at 50mph (there's a TSR on it, it will be 60 once lifted.)

Other than the points at either end, what extra knowledge is required to add it to the signed route? Does it incorporate any new signals?

 

[bengley]

Other than the points at either end, what extra knowledge is required to add it to the signed route? Does it incorporate any new signals?

Different linespeed and yes a couple of signals, but all routes can be accepted from the signal at the end so it's a fairly low risk route.

 

[Sunset route]

Most but not all services used it today, as I was watching on CCF for most of my shift. It all seemed to be running very smoothly especially through Bricklayers Arms junction. There were a lot of controlled signals worked in auto (a very rare event until now). Most up used the USS/F onto the Suusex Rev thence line 10, most down used line 9 onto the DSS then either staying on or crossing onto the DSF. Train from South Bermondsey mainly used line 11 in both directions which is how I'm guessing it is supposed to work. Now all we need to see is it first AM peek service to give it its first proper test.

 

[neilm]

Most but not all services used it today, as I was watching on CCF for most of my shift. It all seemed to be running very smoothly especially through Bricklayers Arms junction. There were a lot of controlled signals worked in auto (a very rare event until now). Most up used the USS/F onto the Suusex Rev thence line 10, most down used line 9 onto the DSS then either staying on or crossing onto the DSF. Train from South Bermondsey mainly used line 11 in both directions which is how I'm guessing it is supposed to work. Now all we need to see is it first AM peek service to give it its first proper test.

We won't be seeing a full peek service for weeks I think.

 

[Sunset route]

We won't be seeing a full peek service for weeks I think.

Yeah, you, me and most of south east England agree on that one.

 

[carriageline]

What is the procedure to get authority for that?

Driver contacts the signaller. If it's one of the few reasons that the rule book allows, then the signaller sets it up, and between the driver and signaller the wrong direction move takes place.

No authority is needed past that. Obviously the driver needs to get authority from the signaller to make the move, but the signaller doesn't need authority from above.


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[Bromley boy]

Driver contacts the signaller. If it's one of the few reasons that the rule book allows, then the signaller sets it up, and between the driver and signaller the wrong direction move takes place.

No authority is needed past that. Obviously the driver needs to get authority from the signaller to make the move, but the signaller doesn't need authority from above.


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And there would be a chat sans tea and biscuits in the driver's future for accepting a wrong route!

 

[IKB]

Most but not all services used it today, as I was watching on CCF for most of my shift. It all seemed to be running very smoothly especially through Bricklayers Arms junction. There were a lot of controlled signals worked in auto (a very rare event until now). Most up used the USS/F onto the Suusex Rev thence line 10, most down used line 9 onto the DSS then either staying on or crossing onto the DSF. Train from South Bermondsey mainly used line 11 in both directions which is how I'm guessing it is supposed to work. Now all we need to see is it first AM peek service to give it its first proper test.

Sounds like a good start. I was looking at RTT earlier and there were a few trains nicking a minute or so in both directions. With down trains now using line 9/DSS, I'm assuming those on the USF weren't having to get checked down/crossed over just after New Cross Gate? If so that should speed things up nicely.

 

[bengley]

Sounds like a good start. I was looking at RTT earlier and there were a few trains nicking a minute or so in both directions. With down trains now using line 9/DSS, I'm assuming those on the USF weren't having to get checked down/crossed over just after New Cross Gate? If so that should speed things up nicely.

The points after NXG are 60mph anyway so doesn't cost any time going onto the slow there

 

[IKB]

The points after NXG are 60mph anyway so doesn't cost any time going onto the slow there

Yes, but it's common to get cautionary aspects on the approach to/through NXG due to the South Bermondsey bottleneck and having keep the Sussex Reversible free for Down trains. If the controlled signals are switched to auto more often it would suggest more greens and sailing through USF onto Sussex Rev and 10.

I'm curious to know why the new points from the DSS to the DSF are 50mph and not 60mph. Both pieces of track are parallel and there's plenty of room to have a longer, quicker crossover.

 

[MarkyT]

I'm curious to know why the new points from the DSS to the DSF are 50mph and not 60mph. Both pieces of track are parallel and there's plenty of room to have a longer, quicker crossover.

10MPH difference? Maybe they would have put in a 40MPH turnout if they could have got away with it but in signalling that would require approach release or some other complex advance aspect sequence with splitting distants, preliminary route indicators and the like. Where these are close to other junctions it starts to get really complicated. You can't for example have flashing yellow sequences for one signal overlapping with the same system approaching the next one, so you have to choose splitting distants or PRIs. Make all the diverging differentials no more than 10MPH slower than the fastest route and forget all that. You can have free aspect for all routes.

 

[neilm]

Finally used it this evening, much faster to get away from LBG now.

 

[swt_passenger]

We don't sign it separately to the other lines - it's part of the route. We were all given a brief to look at and that was our only way of 'signing' it as there were no passenger or training trains over it before it opened.

Thanks for confirming what a couple of us suggested would probably happen many weeks ago, in this thread.

It is obviously impossible for drivers to learn the route "practically", because there is no period when both routes are available prior to it being in use by passenger trains. IIRC exactly the same happened with the Reading flyovers, drivers were reported to have had a brief, and a video, and basically got on with it.