Beggars

[johntea]

Why is it beggars always seem to use the excuse that they are x.xx short for the bus/train?

I would have a lot more respect if they were just honest and said 'I'm homeless, can you help?' to which I would maybe provide some food or drink if nearby (I never give money to them as we know exactly where that goes).

One of them made me laugh the other day, he was apparently needing £2.40 to get his train ticket back to Warrington. From Leeds. Think he may have been having to book that one about a year in advance

 

[jon0844]

Or taking things steady. One station at a time...!

 

[Springs Branch]

Do any of the TOCs or TfL have any consistent policy to allow travel in "Good Samaritan" cases?

I've seen the usual suspects hanging around stations asking people for money for fares after "losing their wallet", "being mugged" etc etc. The scruffy, very pale, skinny & fidgety guy you can usually assume doesn't want the money to get home in time for tea.

But what about if someone really had been pickpocketed or robbed, or genuinely had lost their handbag with their mobile phone & train ticket? If such a person approached a ticket office or station staff, would they be given some sort of authority to travel without payment?

If there is some system to exercise discretion I don't envy the staff members having to implement this. Obviously the tearful, well-dressed 15-year-old girl wanting to get home to mum & dad in Richmond is an easy case. But what about if the passenger looked a bit scruffy middle-aged geezer, maybe a "rough-diamond", not the most well-spoken but who usually paid their fare and really had lost their wallet & Oyster on one occasion? Do staff usually give the benefit of the doubt? (presumably not if they come back with the same story the next day)

And presumably there's some distance limit? i.e. it's not unreasonable to ask for a one-off emergency authority for Kings Cross to Harringay or Enfield Chase, but what about KX to York or Newcastle?

Has anyone seen any examples of this happening?

 

[Temple Meads]

A while back I was at a local bus station with a couple of friends when a chap asked for the money for his bus ticket 'home'. One of my friends indulged him, then about 30 minutes later we saw him coming out of Sainsburys, away from the bus station, carrying a six-pack of lager!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

This takes back to the early 1960's when I was in Manchester at the University there and a beggar asked me for money "to buy a cup of tea". I said that I would do better than that and said that he could come with me to the refrectory, where I would buy him a cup of tea and also something to eat.

All that I received as thanks was abuse, so I left him to his own devices.

 

[Flamingo]

Do any of the TOCs or TfL have any consistent policy to allow travel in "Good Samaritan" cases?

I've seen the usual suspects hanging around stations asking people for money for fares after "losing their wallet", "being mugged" etc etc. The scruffy, very pale, skinny & fidgety guy you can usually assume doesn't want the money to get home in time for tea.

But what about if someone really had been pickpocketed or robbed, or genuinely had lost their handbag with their mobile phone & train ticket? If such a person approached a ticket office or station staff, would they be given some sort of authority to travel without payment?

If there is some system to exercise discretion I don't envy the staff members having to implement this. Obviously the tearful, well-dressed 15-year-old girl wanting to get home to mum & dad in Richmond is an easy case. But what about if the passenger looked a bit scruffy middle-aged geezer, maybe a "rough-diamond", not the most well-spoken but who usually paid their fare and really had lost their wallet & Oyster on one occasion? Do staff usually give the benefit of the doubt? (presumably not if they come back with the same story the next day)

And presumably there's some distance limit? i.e. it's not unreasonable to ask for a one-off emergency authority for Kings Cross to Harringay or Enfield Chase, but what about KX to York or Newcastle?

Has anyone seen any examples of this happening?

There is the SILK process in place, where a manned booking office can issue a ticket paid for at another manned booking office http://www.passengerfocus.org.uk/fa...-at-a-station-with-no-money-can-anyone-help-2

Also, at their discrection, an Unpaid Fare Notice can be issued by Guards and stations. This is for an Anytime single ticket, and gives ten days to pay. It can't be issued across different TOC's, however, and is subject to an address check.

As with all these things, there are processes in place to help the genuine. However, they need to be accessed before beginning the journey. Somebody already on my train fromLondon saying "You need to give me one of those written tickets, bud" will find themselves sorting it out on the platform at Reading. It's also amazing how many of them have dying sisters in Newport that they can't delay the journey thirty minutes for the next train to see...

 

[Busaholic]

We used to have a woman in Penzance who stopped everyone to ask for enough money to get a bus fare to see her sick mother in Treliske Hospital, Truro. It was just about feasible in the late 1980s that her mother was still alive, but by 2000 when the beggar must herself have been at least 75 the story had worn a bit thin, particularly when you'd heard it twenty times before.

I still remember the first time I was asked for money in London, and I grew up there. It was about 1973 and I got off a bus outside St Pancras Station and a middle aged man approached me: I was more surprised than shocked, and I think it was another few years before it happened again, then it quickly became endemic as drug use soared.

 

[LowLevel]

I've a mate who works in the social security system. They had a regular customer who had all sorts of woes that required him to turn up asking for more money every few weeks - he'd lost all his, had some sort of disaster etc. All very dubious. He got blackballed when a check of his case file indicated that he'd asked for help paying for his father's funeral 6 times over 3 decades.

 

[Busaholic]

I've a mate who works in the social security system. They had a regular customer who had all sorts of woes that required him to turn up asking for more money every few weeks - he'd lost all his, had some sort of disaster etc. All very dubious. He got blackballed when a check of his case file indicated that he'd asked for help paying for his father's funeral 6 times over 3 decades.

Sure he wasn't an M.P.?

 

[CC 72100]

I'll never forget when working in Paris we had a local beggar who would hang around our office, a pleasant bloke who looked like Uncle Albert from Only Fools and Horses.

However, any respect was soon gone when I saw him purchasing a 70 euro bottle of liquor one morning. Something tells me he wasn't so genuine!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I have been approached in Birmingham by a man wanting money for the train to Nottingham, as he was down visiting his mate who then got done for driving offences, leaving him stranded. I've experienced it once singularly, as has a friend, and once with said friend, all three of which occurred about six weeks apart from each other. Hmm...

 

[MCR247]

One of my friends saw a begger in town recently asking for money but as she had no cash on her she offered to buy him a hot drink from the nearby Greggs, to which he replied "Could you not go to Starbucks they taste better"

 

[table38]

There's an old joke about the beggar who asks for "10p for a cup of tea" and the bloke says "that's cheap, here's 20p can you get me one as well"

But seriously I think I've posted before about being approached by a young girl in London who needed to get home. I considered offering to go to the ticket office and buy her a ticket, but I didn't really have time. She did appear to be genuinely distressed, but if I'd been in her position I would probably have gone to ask someone at the station to help or even the police rather than just some handsome random stranger.

I still don't know if I did a good thing that day or not!

 

[Busaholic]

There's an old joke about the beggar who asks for "10p for a cup of tea" and the bloke says "that's cheap, here's 20p can you get me one as well"

But seriously I think I've posted before about being approached by a young girl in London who needed to get home. I considered offering to go to the ticket office and buy her a ticket, but I didn't really have time. She did appear to be genuinely distressed, but if I'd been in her position I would probably have gone to ask someone at the station to help or even the police rather than just some handsome random stranger.

I still don't know if I did a good thing that day or not!

It can't have been a bad thing you did that day, even if she wasn't genuine. You'd have felt awful if you'd heard soon after that a young girl had been picked up by an unlicensed minicab and raped then dumped somewhere. Such vultures lurk near several London stations, ready to rip the unwary off if nothing worse. The worst that could have happened to you was parting unnecessarily with a few quid, which many of us are happy to do with the lottery.

 

[Tetchytyke]

They don't do that in London. Here they plonk a packet of tissues next to you with a little note about how they've got cancer and their kids are dying of ebola, and only £1 will save them, or something equally unlikely.

I normally just text the BTP when I see them.

 

[bussnapperwm]

I said to one once I only had visa to which they whipped out a chip and pin machine

 

[Busaholic]

I said to one once I only had visa to which they whipped out a chip and pin machine

I'd be interested to know to whom that machine was registered because only they could benefit by such a transaction, paid into a bank account a couple of days later. On the other hand, the machine might have been one that just captured your card details for cloning purposes.

 

[jon0844]

I suspect it was a joke.

 

[Gemz91]

I suspect it was a joke.

There was a story in The Sun (I think)a few weeks ago about a begger in London who had a card machine. Didn't buy the paper though only, read the headline so not sure of the ins and outs of it.

 

[507021]

I was once approached by a man asking for £2 for a train to Warrington (would have cost more than that!). Needless to say I didn't believe his story as after I refused him money (I had just spent what I had in a nearby Tesco) he asked for a can of lager from my shopping for a friend's party

I wouldn't have minded but if he wanted to get the train he would have been at or near the railway station and not walking away from it

 

[fowler9]

There was a story in The Sun (I think)a few weeks ago about a begger in London who had a card machine. Didn't buy the paper though only, read the headline so not sure of the ins and outs of it.

The Sun is a comic and when it comes to comics I tend to find Viz more realistic and less offensive.

As for beggars I know several regular ones in Liverpool with some very elaborate stories. There are some though who I have given a roly to or some change. One chap selling the Big Issue outside Lime Street (So not really a beggar) I gave a fiver to. He was short on getting in to a hostel that night. I had chatted to him a few times and he was a couple of weeks of getting a house so his son could visit. Not seen him since, I hope because he now has the house.

 

[Merseysider]

Outside Liverpool Lime Street can be particularly bad for beggars compared to other stations. I'd say for every three times I walk out of the station I get accosted once.

I don't give out money when I get asked for 'train fare' or '60p to make a call'.
If they were honest and asked me for money for a pint I'd oblige them!

 

[ainsworth74]

If they come to me saying something along the lines of 'I only 50p short to buy my ticket home' then usually I'll offer to buy the ticket for them (from machine or booking office) in exchange for the rest of the money they've gathered. So far no one has taken me up on the offer...

 

[Antman]

I don't give any money to beggars and that includes 'chuggers' and people trying to sell internet services.

I'll gladly give money to charities that help homeless people though.

The problem seems to have reached epidemic proportions and the police seem to given up trying to stop it.

 

[fowler9]

I don't give any money to beggars and that includes 'chuggers' and people trying to sell internet services.

I'll gladly give money to charities that help homeless people though.

The problem seems to have reached epidemic proportions and the police seem to given up trying to stop it.

The thing is police haven't given up on it, what are they supposed to focus on? People doing over 70 in a 40 zone, people smoking cannabis in an area full of people out of their mind on booze, train fare evaders, people asking for a quid for the train fare when they want a bottle of Frosty Jacks etc. etc.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A while back I was at a local bus station with a couple of friends when a chap asked for the money for his bus ticket 'home'. One of my friends indulged him, then about 30 minutes later we saw him coming out of Sainsburys, away from the bus station, carrying a six-pack of lager!

If I felt it was a genuine case, I would accompany them to the relevant public transport vehicle/service and pay their fare for them rather than hand over cash.

There used to be such a person near us, who asked for a specific sum for a bus fare. Unfortunately, there was not a fare at the sum stated.

I don't give money to liars under any circumstances. By lying, they remove themselves from any possible consideration.

Neil
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There was a story in The Sun (I think)a few weeks ago about a begger in London who had a card machine. Didn't buy the paper though only, read the headline so not sure of the ins and outs of it.

This is it:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nds-holidays-iPad-whinges-Cowell-gave-20.html

Neil
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I don't give any money to beggars and that includes 'chuggers' and people trying to sell internet services.

I won't give money to "chuggers" under any circumstances, because if I wish to donate to charity I wish to make a considered decision at home in my own time. I am happy to be leafletted, and provided I'm not busy to have a chat about why it should be their charity, but I will never under any circumstances sign up to a direct debit to a charity in any setting other than at home on my own.

However what I don't like is when "chuggers" obstruct my path, in which case they will be told rudely to move out of the way (and I am big and threatening looking so they usually do). "Excuse me sir" is fine, I'll sometimes even stop and chat, deliberately moving to obstruct my path is not. (Worth pointing out I'm completely non violent but they don't know that )

I complained to FGW about "chuggers" in Slough station building once as they were obstructing the flow of passengers from busy trains. To their credit FGW had them move out of the way.

(I normally don't do charity direct debits as there are so many charities and I'd rather spread my money around, I prefer to give random amounts, sponsor people etc as and when. Happy to throw a quid in a bucket, but a regular Direct Debit charity donation is an important commitment to think about in your own time, not do on the spur of the moment).

Neil

 

[jon0844]

In the last few months of travelling about London, I've noticed an incredible increase in the numbers of people with stands full of leaflets about God, and people handing them out. Some appear to be on railway property, some perhaps immediately outside the boundaries.

Now if Network Rail is pushing them to the boundary that's one thing, but of course that's not really enough as they're still going to be in your way as you approach (often they're on the pavements by crossings) so I have to wonder if the council has powers to move them on, or doesn't want the trouble or bad publicity?

And in the last year, even though I've worked from home for a few years now, I'm getting more and more chuggers knocking on my front door. Often the same people (they work for a separate company and represent multiple charities) and if they congregate outside by house in the summer when the window is open (I'm near where they seem to meet up for their pep talk before blitzing the whole street) then I can hear their motivational b******t and how they're really out to just con as many people as possible!

I believe that it takes over 12 months of monthly donations before the charity concerned gets paid in many cases, so it's good money for these legalised beggars.

 

[muz379]

I won't give money to "chuggers" under any circumstances, because if I wish to donate to charity I wish to make a considered decision at home in my own time. I am happy to be leafletted, and provided I'm not busy to have a chat about why it should be their charity, but I will never under any circumstances sign up to a direct debit to a charity in any setting other than at home on my own.

However what I don't like is when "chuggers" obstruct my path, in which case they will be told rudely to move out of the way (and I am big and threatening looking so they usually do). "Excuse me sir" is fine, I'll sometimes even stop and chat, deliberately moving to obstruct my path is not. (Worth pointing out I'm completely non violent but they don't know that )

I complained to FGW about "chuggers" in Slough station building once as they were obstructing the flow of passengers from busy trains. To their credit FGW had them move out of the way.

(I normally don't do charity direct debits as there are so many charities and I'd rather spread my money around, I prefer to give random amounts, sponsor people etc as and when. Happy to throw a quid in a bucket, but a regular Direct Debit charity donation is an important commitment to think about in your own time, not do on the spur of the moment).

Neil

Completely agree .

When I used to walk accross Manchester often for work you used to find these chuggers out in force . In fact its impossible to walk from one end of market street to the other without getting accosted by these people .

The thing that annoys me is knowing someone who used to work for a fundraising company that did this kind of work I know that the people that are out doing the "chugging" often just work for fundraising agencies and so dont actually care about the charity one week they might be wearing an NSPCC T shirt then the following week its friends of the earth etc etc .

On more than one occasion I have had to tell a "chugger" that their guilt and pressure tactics are shameful .They speak as if the charity they are speaking about is the single most important one and everyone MUST donate to it . I personally believe that people chose charities they donate to for personal reasons . I made the decision some time ago to regularly donate to a cancer charity because of the things that have happened in my life that make me feel that it is important and a worthwhile cause . However I have friends that instead donate to animal or children's charities . I dont guilt them or deride their choice of charity because they donate to those charities for specific reasons .

 

[185143]

In the last few months of travelling about London, I've noticed an incredible increase in the numbers of people with stands full of leaflets about God, and people handing them out. Some appear to be on railway property, some perhaps immediately outside the boundaries.

Now if Network Rail is pushing them to the boundary that's one thing, but of course that's not really enough as they're still going to be in your way as you approach (often they're on the pavements by crossings) so I have to wonder if the council has powers to move them on, or doesn't want the trouble or bad publicity?

And in the last year, even though I've worked from home for a few years now, I'm getting more and more chuggers knocking on my front door. Often the same people (they work for a separate company and represent multiple charities) and if they congregate outside by house in the summer when the window is open (I'm near where they seem to meet up for their pep talk before blitzing the whole street) then I can hear their motivational b******t and how they're really out to just con as many people as possible!

I believe that it takes over 12 months of monthly donations before the charity concerned gets paid in many cases, so it's good money for these legalised beggars.

Not just London. There are usually people outside Manchester Piccadilly handing out leaflets about God now.

Last week I got off my bus and witnessed 3 or 4 commuters in a full-on argument about the fact they were 'Wasting valuable paper to promote a load of b******t!' Quite funny at the time tbh!

 

[jon0844]

The thing that annoys me is knowing someone who used to work for a fundraising company that did this kind of work I know that the people that are out doing the "chugging" often just work for fundraising agencies and so dont actually care about the charity one week they might be wearing an NSPCC T shirt then the following week its friends of the earth etc etc .

I do often think of trying to catch them out by seeing if I can make them forget which charity they're representing that day.

But I don't do it because I now just ignore them completely. On the street I just walk by and don't even register their existence. I am sure they don't care, although they do walk alongside people for a fair bit trying (so they must care a bit!), and I don't care either so no harm done!

Not just London. There are usually people outside Manchester Piccadilly handing out leaflets about God now.

Last week I got off my bus and witnessed 3 or 4 commuters in a full-on argument about the fact they were 'Wasting valuable paper to promote a load of b******t!' Quite funny at the time tbh!

They're all over Oxford Street too. I mean, they're bloody everywhere and given they have stands with leaflets/brochures it must be quite organised.