Beeching

[Zoe]

These days there's no need to go and get the shopping yourself though, you can have it delivered.
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Good.

The sooner people realise that complete freedom of travel is privileged and not a right, the better.

We can't be completely sure sure how much there's left in the ground to propel us all around in buses and cars and ferries and helicopters. So let's use what we do have left go a little further. Because you never know when you are really going to need it.

That's why it's a good idea to start planning for a car free society now so there is not chaos if and when it is forced on us. If the car was banned tomorrow the public transport network would not cope with the extra demand so investment needs to be made now to cover this.

 

[Greenback]

We now go shopping at the local market on a Saturday fro fruit, veg and meat. The quality is better than you get in the supermarket. We walk there and back, although soemtimes it's astrain carrying the heavier bags, though that depends on what exactly we buy of course!

Mrs Greenback also likes to buy eggs at a farm she passes on the way to and from work. Apart from that we will buy bread at the local bakers when we can, there is a bakery within ten minutes walk, it's right by the station, but when I come home it's often shut or sold out!

We have certainly reduced our visits to the supermarkets by car, although we can;t cut it out completely! We still find it too convenient to fill up the freezer every couple of months!

 

[Zoe]

I don't think the current policy of booking in advance or paying through the roof for an intercity journey is very helpful in getting people to choose rail. It's great if you plan a holiday weeks in advance and know exactly when you are going but some journeys need to be made at short notice and people want flexibility. The current policy encourages these people to go by car.

It's not just the private car that may have its days numbered, air travel will likely be around for some time but the idea of jetting off somewhere every summer may well have its days numbered.

 

[Greenback]

I agree Zoe. I think that the process may have already started - we certainly don;t jet off every year any more.

 

[Spamcan81]

You would be surprised to see what can be carried by bike. Dutch cyclists can be seen carrying lots of shopping in a trolley attached to the rear.

And you're seriously suggesting an 86 years old should do this?
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These days there's no need to go and get the shopping yourself though, you can have it delivered.
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That's why it's a good idea to start planning for a car free society now so there is not chaos if and when it is forced on us. If the car was banned tomorrow the public transport network would not cope with the extra demand so investment needs to be made now to cover this.

Delivery by carrier pigeon I presume as we mustn't use nasty, fossil fuel burning vans now must we?
I would be interested to know how many of the posters on this thread live in rural communities as opposed to urban areas and are relatively young with unimpaired mobility.
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70% of the UK population live in urban areas.

8 cities: Bristol, Nottingham and suburbs, Birmingham, Glasgow, Leeds, Liverpool, Sheffield and Manchester have populations over 500,000. These cities can all copy the London transport model namely:

• total state control of public transport provision within its jurisdiction
• promotion of and provision for cyclists
• smart card tickets
• 24 bus services on many routes, with 5-10 min frequencies during the day
• through, simplified, universal and often flat fare ticketing
• and dare I say it, congestion charging

London is the least car dependent city in the UK. I work in an office of 80. Several come by bike, the rest by public transport.

Least car dependent or not, I still see lots of private cars in London.
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You would be surprised to see what can be carried by bike. Dutch cyclists can be seen carrying lots of shopping in a trolley attached to the rear.

I've been to Holland many times and whilst cyclists are plentiful and well catered for, there seems to be an awful lot of cars nonetheless.
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Worth a shot. If you are of working age can walk two flights of stair unaided, you ought to be a cycle 4 miles.



I do. Week in, week out.
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Bully for you. Family of four?

 

[shinkansen1966]

I would be interested to know how many of the posters on this thread live in rural communities

If posters here reflect the national average, it will be 30%.

Cars have role in life. And I suspect a declining one. 200 years ago, the furthest most people went was the furthest you could go on foot or on horseback. 200 years from now we might just find ourselves with the same travel habits. It won't happen overnight, but bit by bit and over many, many decades we might drift back to those transport patterns.

 

[Greenback]

When history books are written in the future, the car may not be regarded as the great invention that brought individual freedom.

Instead, it may be seen as a contributor to the increase in obesity, the increase in chest diseases, a killer of innocents, and as a consumer of sparse natural resources.

Our final payment for convenience, flexibility and making our lives easier may not yet have been calculated.

 

[shinkansen1966]

When history books are written in the future, the car may not be regarded as the great invention that brought individual freedom.

Instead, it may be seen as a contributor to the increase in obesity, the increase in chest diseases, a killer of innocents, and as a consumer of sparse natural resources.

Our final payment for convenience, flexibility and making our lives easier may not yet have been calculated.

Wish I'd stop agreeing with you.

PS ... loving the TfL real time bus stop web site. Handy when you are at pub and wonder if you've got time for another swift half.

 

[Zoe]

200 years from now we might just find ourselves with the same travel habits. It won't happen overnight, but bit by bit and over many, many decades we might drift back to those transport patterns.

It's clearly expected that there is going to be more demand for travel though, they wouldn't be determined to build HS2 if they thought there was going to be less demand for travel in the future.

 

[shinkansen1966]

It's clearly expected that there is going to be more demand for travel though, they wouldn't be determined to build HS2 if they thought there was going to be less demand for travel in the future.

Not entirely sure that demand creates provision for the service. When the car was invented, it wasn't invented as response to the demand for the car. Nor was the telephone invented in response for a demand for non face-to-face conversations.

What's the worse than can happen if HS2 does not get built ? Those trips won't get made and people's travel habits will evolve in a different way.

 

[Zoe]

Not entirely sure that demand creates provision for the service. When the car was invented, it wasn't invented as response to the demand for the car. Nor was the telephone invented in response for a demand for non face-to-face conversations.

What's the worse than can happen if HS2 does not get built ? Those trips won't get made and people's travel habits will evolve in a different way.

For years as traffic increased, roads were widened to cope with the extra demand. This has now largely ended as it has been concluded that you can't build your way out of congestion but the concept can still be used in rail. The argument is that the WCML is at capacity so a new line needs to be built to cope with the demand.

 

[LE Greys]

I would be interested to know how many of the posters on this thread live in rural communities as opposed to urban areas and are relatively young with unimpaired mobility.

I do, almost. Graveley is certainly a rural community, but it is on the regular bus route to Stevenage and Letchworth. I'm 27 and walk with a slight limp, but can still cover the three miles into Hitchin (where my profile says I live, but that's just the nearest convenient station) in about an hour, maximum an hour and a half if I'm carrying something. Baldock is an annoying distance away, and we don't have a shop in the village, so everything has to come in. The most convenient way is to do this by car, but it's also possible to walk or use the bus from Stevenage. I can't drive, but do get lifts from people, so I know what it's like to cope without a car. Actually, not too bad. As long as you can carry it, getting it on a bus is possible, and carrying stuff home in a backpack is a decent alternative. Getting to stations is also a walk or a bus ride.

Cycling would be the other option, but they stopped making decent bikes about forty years ago and I'm having a hard job finding one. If I ever do find a 1-speed, steel-frame, narrow-tyred bike, then that might help with speed, but not much. The lanes are narrow and the main roads are busy, so it's a bit dangerous. I'll stick with buses and walking for now.

 

[IanXC]

What we do need to do is address the issue that exists, if only in people's minds, that the fixed costs of owning a car make it sensible to use it as much as possible rather than leaving it parked up.

I think the major solution to this is giving public transport a "high fixed cost" option, and use this same mindset to promote public transport. I don't like to reawaken the Bahncard set up but...