Bee Network Service/Route Discussion

[sprunt]

Severe congestion in the Rusholme area due to illegal parking. Also affects other routes which normally go through Rusholme.

Thanks, and well done for picking up that I wasn't talking about a London bus!

 

[Cavendish1]

Ive just been sent a picture of a GM atlantean on service 316, which i think ran from chorlton to stepping hill. This got me thinking, and i guess no one will have the full answer, but how many services have disappeared from manchesters roads in the past decade or so?

 

[Redmike]

According to signage, some of the departure stands at Stockport Interchange are to be rearranged from Sunday 20th July. Stand Q, the one stuck out on the opposite side from the main part of the station, will no longer be used for the 199, 313 and 391 routes. This is significant because it eliminates an extra loop round the bus station one-way system that those services have to do in order to serve stand Q and then exit the station at the Mersey Square end.

IMO this change is sorely needed (in fact I wrote about the issue on this forum a few months ago) - given that extra loop has to be done at 5 mph, stopping repeatedly to give way to arriving or departing buses, it can sometimes add 5 minutes or so to the time taken to serve the Interchange. Particularly on the 313, which is rather tightly timed and often seems prone to unreliability, being forced to spend several minutes of each trip driving round in circles is highly unwelcome

Stand Q would be better suited to those services which head out in that direction eg 42, 23, 197.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Stand Q would be better suited to those services which head out in that direction eg 42, 23, 197.

Would the single stand Q be able to cope with the existing arrival and departure timetabling of the 23, 42 and 197?

 

[Redmike]

Would the single stand Q be able to cope with the existing arrival and departure timetabling of the 23, 42 and 197?

I was giving examples of services which head out of the interchange in that direction. I’m not suggesting they all use the same stand.

 

[mangad]

Ive just been sent a picture of a GM atlantean on service 316, which i think ran from chorlton to stepping hill. This got me thinking, and i guess no one will have the full answer, but how many services have disappeared from manchesters roads in the past decade or so?

No idea but there's a huge archive of bus timetables that will probably tell you with a little digging.

 

[daodao]

Ive just been sent a picture of a GM atlantean on service 316, which i think ran from chorlton to stepping hill. This got me thinking, and i guess no one will have the full answer, but how many services have disappeared from manchesters roads in the past decade or so?

Route 316 (formerly joint Manchester/Stockport route 16) still runs between Stockport and Chorlton-cum-Hardy as route 23, but the section from Stockport to Stepping Hill Hospital via Offerton and Dialstone Lane disappeared many years ago.

 

[158756]

I don't think it's been mentioned yet, but the Bee Network's second new route started today. Route 631, like the 632 (Wigan-Chorley) runs along the main road between Wigan and Standish, and then does a couple of loops around Standish.

The only part of the route not served by other buses appears to be a new housing estate in Standish, which is a hail and ride section with no bus stops. Between this new service and the convoluted route of the 640/641 and the Lancashire contracted service 110 (which TfGM presumably have some input on given the route), I do wonder if some rationalisation of services in Standish might have been in order. It does coordinate with the 632 to provide a 30 minute frequency from Wigan to Standish (this direction only) in the evening.


There is also news on the expansion of night buses. The Bee Network committee agenda this week includes this report https://democracy.greatermanchester-ca.gov.uk/documents/s38872/12. BNC 20250724 Night Bus.pdf

Which summarises the results of the pilot scheme on the 36 and V1. Unsurprisingly patronage is heavily concentrated on Friday and Saturday nights. It is proposed to continue the 36 and V1 night buses 7 days a week until at least the end of the financial year, but the next routes, the 17 and 135, are proposed to run Thursday-Saturday nights only.

 

[domcoop7]

I don't think it's been mentioned yet, but the Bee Network's second new route started today. Route 631, like the 632 (Wigan-Chorley) runs along the main road between Wigan and Standish, and then does a couple of loops around Standish.

The only part of the route not served by other buses appears to be a new housing estate in Standish, which is a hail and ride section with no bus stops. Between this new service and the convoluted route of the 640/641 and the Lancashire contracted service 110 (which TfGM presumably have some input on given the route), I do wonder if some rationalisation of services in Standish might have been in order. It does coordinate with the 632 to provide a 30 minute frequency from Wigan to Standish (this direction only) in the evening.


There is also news on the expansion of night buses. The Bee Network committee agenda this week includes this report https://democracy.greatermanchester-ca.gov.uk/documents/s38872/12. BNC 20250724 Night Bus.pdf

Which summarises the results of the pilot scheme on the 36 and V1. Unsurprisingly patronage is heavily concentrated on Friday and Saturday nights. It is proposed to continue the 36 and V1 night buses 7 days a week until at least the end of the financial year, but the next routes, the 17 and 135, are proposed to run Thursday-Saturday nights only.

Total net costs of the existing pilot from September 2024 to May 2025 (eight months) were £1.6 million. Annualised, that would make £2.4 million. The new pilot is estimated to cost another half a million. Three million quid for somewhere around 10,000 passengers per month (if my reading of the chart on page 8 of the link is right) = 120,000 passengers a year - £25 per passenger. It'd be cheaper to just book each passenger an Uber.

But at least the Fat Cat Bus Barons aren't coining it in any more... oh wait ... all these costs go to private bus company operators who get paid win, lose or draw. Trebles all around, comrades!

 

[mangad]

Total net costs of the existing pilot from September 2024 to May 2025 (eight months) were £1.6 million. Annualised, that would make £2.4 million. The new pilot is estimated to cost another half a million. Three million quid for somewhere around 10,000 passengers per month (if my reading of the chart on page 8 of the link is right) = 120,000 passengers a year - £25 per passenger. It'd be cheaper to just book each passenger an Uber

The chart shows the number of trips per month, not the number of passengers. hard to tell from the scale but that around 6,200 in May on the 36, 4800ish on the V1. Note from the chart trips per month is growing month on month. May's usage is higher than December, which is a traditionally very busy month for people socialising. Dips in January and February as you would expect. I for one would be very interested in seeing what next Decembers are like. Given the growth, I think they will be very good

Costs are high yes, but these are introductory services and they are being established. How long does it take to establish a new night bus and get people out of cars and taxis? We are talking major behavioural shift here. That's slow. Maybe costs can be reduced with better understanding of demand.

But you know what, if you only ever look at cost you miss a huge part of the picture. Public transport as a provider of social good. That's why the night buses were introduced after all.

Could you just give everyone an Uber credit instead? Yeah, you could. But in the Canada Uber persuaded Innisfil to get rid of public transport and replace it with subsidised Ubers. It was a massive success. People used it! They used it too much... Costs skyrocketed, budgets busted. Whole thing began to cost more than a traditional public transport system...

Basically beware of saying "you could just get everyone a cab" because it's not that simple. In the long run, it wouldn't work out cheaper in Greater Manchester, of that I am sure.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Costs are high yes, but these are introductory services and they are being established. How long does it take to establish a new night bus and get people out of cars and taxis?

When taking a night journey by taxi, it drops you off at your home address. What are people expected to do at night time when leaving the bus....get a taxi from there to their home address?

 

[mangad]

When taking a night journey by taxi, it drops you off at your home address. What are people expected to do at night time when leaving the bus....get a taxi from there to their home address?

Well I don't know about you, but I tend to take buses that run near my house. And if there wasn't a convenient night bus that ran near my house, I would use a different mode of transport.

So I think it's a fair assumption that - as with any bus route - the vast majority of people using the night buses will be using bus stops pretty close to their home address.

I mean I could be wrong and people are going to get off the V1 and walk three miles to their house. But it just doesn't seem very likely. Still, what do I know?

 

[M60lad]

I was reading on another forum recently that there's more changes to Bee Network routes coming up in September and one of them seems to be the withdrawal of X50 Piccadilly-Trafford Centre service and replacing it with a 30 Piccadilly-Trafford Centre service running via Regent Road, Salford Quays and Trafford Park not to sure what other services are changing in September though.

 

[father_jack]

A 100 had roof ripped off in Eccles yesterday. Someone has been left badly hurt in hospital.

Eccles: Fifteen hurt as double-decker bus hits bridge

Three people are seriously hurt, one critically, after the bus struck a bridge in Eccles.

www.bbc.co.uk

Fifteen hurt after double-decker bus hits bridge
A yellow double-decker bus has a smashed top windscreen and no roof, leaving the top floor seats exposed. A fire engine is parked in front of it and a man in a fireman's helmet can be seen stand on the street next to it speaking to people.

The roof of a double-decker bus has been torn off after it struck a bridge

Sarah Spina-Matthews & Rachael Lazaro
BBC News, Manchester
Richard Stead
BBC News
Reporting from
Eccles
Published
21 July 2025
Fifteen people have been injured, one critically, as a double-decker bus had its roof torn off after striking a bridge.

The vehicle crashed at the junction of Barton Road and Trafford Road in Eccles, Salford, at about 15:00 BST, Greater Manchester Police said.

North West Ambulance Service said 15 people were treated at the scene and then taken to hospital. Three people have sustained serious injuries. One of them is in a critical condition.

Transport for Greater Manchester (TfGM) said the bus was a 100 service in operation at the time of the crash.

People are standing on the top deck of a yellow bus of which the top has been pulled off. The front windscreen has been smashed.

Several passengers were taken to hospital after the crash with three seriously hurt

A large number of paramedics, including an air ambulance, attended the scene. Road closures are in place, with police advising people to avoid the area.

North West Ambulance Service said it had sent 10 emergency ambulances, its hazard response team and colleagues from North West Air Ambulance, with the first team arriving at 15.10.

"NWAS treated 15 patients who were all taken to Salford Royal or Manchester Royal Infirmary hospitals," it added.

A number of people, who have been blurred out, are stood on the top floor of a double decker bus which has had its top sliced off. The back of the bus is handing off and people are watching on from either side of the road.

A witness says several children were on the bus when it crashed

Stacey Morley, who lives next to the scene of the crash, said this was the "third or fourth time" she had seen a bus crash into the same canal bridge.

"It was horrific, I'm still in shock," she said.

"I just feel sorry for the people and their families."

Szymon Hundz said he and his girlfriend were in their flat overlooking the road at the time of the crash.

He said his girlfriend saw the bus go under the bridge and "two people fall out from the top floor onto the ground".

Mr Hundz said: "It was a really loud explosion sound.

"We rushed down to bring chairs and water and stuff for people, we were trying to find any medical supplies from the neighbours while paramedics weren't there."

He said he witnessed one man have a seizure after the crash, and "lots of people with bleeding heads".

A young man with messy light brown hair stands with a neutral expression in front of police tape which is across an area in front of a tree. A police officer is stood facing away behind him.

Szymon Hundz says he rushed down to help the victims after the crash

Witness Josh Tyldesley said the roof of the bus had been "completely ripped off".

"I saw a woman or a man lying at the back of the bus," he said.

"I've never ever seen an emergency presence like it."

A man with a gingerish beard and sunglasses on his head stands wearing a backpack next to a road. Behind him the road has been blocked off with police tape.

Josh Tyldesley says he saw someone lying on the road behind the bus

Another witness who lives in the area said seeing the crash and its aftermath was "really upsetting".

She said: "I've actually never seen anything like it in my life.

"[There were] lots of children on the bus, the bus is a mess."

People stand around looking at a fire truck which is parked in front of a yellow double decker bus which has had its top ripped off and the top windscreen smashed. Firefighters in helmets and high vis are standing on the exposed top deck.
The bus was operating on the 100 route at the time of the crash

Transport Commissioner for Greater Manchester Vernon Everitt said an "immediate and urgent" investigation into how the crash happened was under way.

"First and foremost, our thoughts are with everyone on board the bus," he said.

"This is clearly a distressing situation for everyone involved and we'd like to thank emergency services for their swift response."

Two yellow ambulances are parked in the middle of a street. People can be seen walking along the street in the background.

Paramedics, including air ambulance, are at the scene

A TfGM spokesperson earlier said it "had received reports of a double-decker bus colliding with a bridge on Barton Road in Eccles".

"The bus was a 100 service and in operation at the time of the collision," they said.

"Our absolute priority right now is supporting the emergency response and the people who were on board."

A bus has previously had its roof ripped off after striking the same bridge in April 2023.

The video below in the public domain is quite disturbing, please be aware.

 

[mattb7tl]

Total net costs of the existing pilot from September 2024 to May 2025 (eight months) were £1.6 million. Annualised, that would make £2.4 million. The new pilot is estimated to cost another half a million. Three million quid for somewhere around 10,000 passengers per month (if my reading of the chart on page 8 of the link is right) = 120,000 passengers a year - £25 per passenger. It'd be cheaper to just book each passenger an Uber.

That doesn't factor in the effect an around the clock service has on daytime and evening journeys. It usually results in long term growth outside the night service as an around the clock service offers security and is a more competitive car replacement

 

[Statto]

I was reading on another forum recently that there's more changes to Bee Network routes coming up in September and one of them seems to be the withdrawal of X50 Piccadilly-Trafford Centre service and replacing it with a 30 Piccadilly-Trafford Centre service running via Regent Road, Salford Quays and Trafford Park not to sure what other services are changing in September though.

Does anyone use the X50 now, as that's been redundant since the Metrolink extention to the Trafford Centre opened, it's every 30 minutes (mind you the X50 was every 30 minutes when it was introduced, but went to every 15 minutes for a whilst), other routes from Central Manchester 100 & 250 (which the X50 is a faster version off) are more frequent although slower.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Jul 2025 ==

Thinking, could the 52 route be split at Eccles, with another route operating Eccles - Trafford Centre section, as i see the 52 has one of those wierd frequencies, were the route is Trafford Centre - Eccles - Cheetham Hill - Failsworth, with the core section being Eccles - Cheetham Hill were the route is every 10 minutes, however each end (Trafford Centre - Eccles & Cheetham Hill - Failsworth) is every 30 minutes, but buses don't operate through during the day, heres the 52 timetable from bustimes.org.

52 - The Trafford Centre Bus Station - Tesco

Bee Network - Stagecoach Manchester

bustimes.org

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The 368 has unusual timetabling with a 20 minute service at peak periods but a 15 minute service at off-peak times. Is there a reason for this anolamy?

 

[WibbleWobble]

The 368 has unusual timetabling with a 20 minute service at peak periods but a 15 minute service at off-peak times. Is there a reason for this anolamy?

Quite common these days - allows for longer journeys times without increasing the vehicle requirement for the service.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I don't think it's been mentioned yet, but the Bee Network's second new route started today. Route 631, like the 632 (Wigan-Chorley) runs along the main road between Wigan and Standish, and then does a couple of loops around Standish.

The only part of the route not served by other buses appears to be a new housing estate in Standish, which is a hail and ride section with no bus stops. Between this new service and the convoluted route of the 640/641 and the Lancashire contracted service 110 (which TfGM presumably have some input on given the route), I do wonder if some rationalisation of services in Standish might have been in order. It does coordinate with the 632 to provide a 30 minute frequency from Wigan to Standish (this direction only) in the evening.

Is an hourly Frequency adequate for any Standish-to Wigan service?

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Is an hourly Frequency adequate for any Standish-to Wigan service?

The main direct service (632) runs every 20 minutes during the day reducing to hourly mid-evening. The other less direct routes are semi-rural in nature and would be unlikely to justify more than an hourly service.

As for rationalisation it's complicated by the need to serve Wrightington Hospital which is very much "out in the sticks".

 

[johncrossley]

The introduction of the 631 means that the service from Wigan to Standish is now half hourly on Monday to Saturday evenings. No Sunday service on the 631 means Sunday evenings remains hourly.

 

[mangad]

Manchester Evening News have a new story with some updates from TfGM about the Barton Lane Bridge.

Specifically from the article: "the installation of new and additional warning measures – including further signage – at and near the bridge, some of which (roadside signs) is already in place." As mentioned somewhere (on the Fleet thread?), Google Streetview shows the warning barriers to be in a state of disrepair (compared to what used to be there). They're also looking at re-routing buses away from Barton Lane.

 

[Leyland Bus]

Manchester Evening News have a new story with some updates from TfGM about the Barton Lane Bridge.

Specifically from the article: "the installation of new and additional warning measures – including further signage – at and near the bridge, some of which (roadside signs) is already in place." As mentioned somewhere (on the Fleet thread?), Google Streetview shows the warning barriers to be in a state of disrepair (compared to what used to be there). They're also looking at re-routing buses away from Barton Lane.

The only sensible option...


(My bolding)

 

[daodao]

The only sensible option...


(My bolding)

If a double deck bus passes close to the Barton Lane bridge the driver could still take a wrong turning. A safer option would be only to use single deck buses on all routes passing close to this bridge.

 

[Leyland Bus]

If a double deck bus passes close to the Barton Road bridge the driver could still take a wrong turning. A safer option would be only to use single deck buses on all routes passing close to this bridge.

No, that's just silly as it would cause all manor of issues.

If no route passes under that bridge, then no one has any need or reason to turn under it, regardless of what they're driving.

Someone like @mayneway can perhaps answer this one: how little or often are low bridge locations etc etc brought up with driving staff these days or is it still just a section of a notice board and just left to drivers to read it at whim??

 

[mayneway]

No, that's just silly as it would cause all manor of issues.

If no route passes under that bridge, then no one has any need or reason to turn under it, regardless of what they're driving.

Someone like @mayneway can perhaps answer this one: how little or often are low bridge locations etc etc brought up with driving staff these days or is it still just a section of a notice board and just left to drivers to read it at whim??

Just a section on a notice board at the depot and we were told about low bridges during route training.

I wouldn’t like to hazard a guess at how many buses per hour go over the swing bridge past the junction with the low bridge. It’s just a tragic mistake. No matter how much training or how manage audio alarms go off to warn of a low bridge ahead sadly there’s always a risk of it happening.

 

[GCH100]

I agree with Leyland Bus on this issue, the only mid term sensible issue is to re-route buses away from Barton Lane, there has been at least 12 issues involving buses becoming deroofed over the last 60 years there, and not only that also HGV's as well. The bridge was fine in its time but it has served its purpose, and the road needs to be restricted to car access only, Barton Lane could still have a bus service operating via Trafford Road and or Cawdor Street in a loop. Otherwise if nothing is done a bridge strike will end up resulting in fatalities there. Double-deckers need to be used on surounding routes, to say that get rid of deckers from any routes going close is redicoulous, you would end up with routes to the Trafford Centre being entirely operated by saloon which just isn't feasible. Indead at one stage the 100 when operated by First using saloons if I am not mistaken, used Trafford Road and Cawdor Street, to reach the Trafford Centre for a short period of time, when very few deckers where based at Queens Road.

 

[Statto]

Looking at the Salford bus map, could the routes 20/21/22/100 be rerouted from Barton Road, the rerouting could be via Trafford Way, Salford Western Gateway, & Liverpool Road (Trafford Way & Salford Western Gateway is that new link road to/from the Trafford Centre that opened a few years ago), it would mean through journey's on the 100 doing a double run, but it would take those routes away from Barton Road & the temptation to turn into Barton Lane, & keep the 52/66 as they are, as they're allocated single decks anyway.

 

[M60lad]

You don't even need to go down to Salford Western Gateway the easiest way to reroute the above services would be via M60 which is the diversion when the Swing Bridge is in use, going via Salford Western Gateway I think would increase timings and could need extra vehicles on some services.

 

[Whisky Papa]

You don't even need to go down to Salford Western Gateway the easiest way to reroute the above services would be via M60 which is the diversion when the Swing Bridge is in use, going via Salford Western Gateway I think would increase timings and could need extra vehicles on some services.

How long do they turn the swing bridge for at a time these days? I suppose a crawl over the M60 high-level bridge might be quicker, but that assumes you know in advance the swing bridge is going to be opened for the canal for some length of time.

I spent a few months back in 1980/1 commuting on the old 262 from Urmston to Eccles, and no doubt we would get 'bridged' at least once a week - usually it added no more than 5 minutes to the journey.