Basic fare information

[Capybara]

I want to travel from A to B. I don't want a cheap advance fare. I don't want to have to go through websites which demand times and dates of travel before they will tell me the 'fares available'. I am perfectly capable of reading a timetable and planning my journey. I simply want to know what fare I will have to pay, peak but usually off-peak (what used to be a perfectly understandable Saver), to make my return journey if I turn up on the day. An unfashionable thing to do, I know, but all I want is the information that the ticket machine at the station will give me when I arrive to buy my ticket and make my journey. Is there a website that will give me this information in a straightforward manner?

 

[EM2]

Most TOC timetables will tell you what the peak times are. So if you are travelling outside of those, you can work out what ticket you need.

 

[Capybara]

Sorry. Perhaps I didn't explain myself well enough. For example, if I want to travel from King's Cross to Peterborough tomorrow, how can I find out the cost of an off-peak (day?) return. That's all I want to know.

 

[EM2]

Ring National Rail Enquiries?

 

[matt]

Just go to http://nationalrail.co.uk and put in you want to travel tomorrow and enter a time. (although tomorrow is all off-peak being a saturday)

 

[Capybara]

Thanks. But I want to know what the fare is, not what the times are.

 

[matt]

Thanks. But I want to know what the fare is, not what the times are.

National rail will give you the price as well

 

[EM2]

Edit - Matt got there first.

 

[Chris-P]

Thanks. But I want to know what the fare is, not what the times are.

Buy avantix traveller then: http://www.tsoshop.co.uk/bookstore.asp?Action=Book&ProductId=9780117068407

when I want to check fares I just enter a random time into http://eastcoast.co.uk and I can see the cost of anytime singles, off peak singles, off peak returns etc...

 

[moonrakerz]

£23 or £26. OR you could pay £33.50, £37 or even £45 ! Or, Or, Or..................

http://www.buytickets.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/TicketMatrix.aspx?Command=ReturnFareMatrixNoJasCall

 

[yorkie]

moonrakerz - you can't link to individual search results like that. The results are unique to your session.

Capybara - http://tickets.eastcoast.co.uk/ec/en/JourneyPlanning/Wizard/StationSelect

On page 3 choose 'I need an open return' a few pages later you can tick the off peak tickets box, and it then lists all the tickets and the price, and basic conditions (but not the validity codes - for that you'd need the Avantix CD-ROM)

Details for a First Class Off Peak Return
First Class Off Peak Return
£96.00, valid via Via East Coast trains Only., first class return with no railcards
Restrictions
Valid on off-peak services by the route and Train Operator shown. Return travel any day within 1 month.
First Class Off Peak Return for £96.00: Buy this ticket
First Class Off Peak Return for £96.00: Show services

Details for a Super Off Peak Day Return
Super Off Peak Day Return
£18.00, valid via First Capital Connect Only, standard class return with no railcards
Restrictions
Valid on off-peak services by the route and Train Operator shown. Return journey must be made the same day.
Super Off Peak Day Return for £18.00: Buy this ticket
Super Off Peak Day Return for £18.00: Show services

Details for a Off Peak Day Return
Off Peak Day Return
£23.00, valid via First Capital Connect Only, standard class return with no railcards
Restrictions
Valid on off-peak services by the route and Train Operator shown. Return journey must be made the same day.
Off Peak Day Return for £23.00: Buy this ticket
Off Peak Day Return for £23.00: Show services

Details for a Off Peak Day Return
£26.00, valid via Via Any Permitted Route, standard class return with no railcards
Restrictions
Valid on off-peak services by the route and Train Operator shown. Return journey must be made the same day.
Off Peak Day Return for £26.00: Buy this ticket
Off Peak Day Return for £26.00: Show services

Details for a First Class Off Peak Day Return
First Class Off Peak Day Return
£36.00, valid via First Capital Connect Only, first class return with no railcards
Restrictions
Valid on off-peak services by the route and Train Operator shown. Return journey must be made the same day.
First Class Off Peak Day Return for £36.00: Buy this ticket
First Class Off Peak Day Return for £36.00: Show services

Details for a One Day Off Peak Travelcard
One Day Off Peak Travelcard
£28.00, valid via First Capital Connect Only, standard class return with no railcards
Restrictions
Valid on off peak services within the zones specified
One Day Off Peak Travelcard for £28.00: Buy this ticket
One Day Off Peak Travelcard for £28.00: Show services
Details for a One Day Off Peak Travelcard
£29.50, valid via Via Any Permitted Route, standard class return with no railcards
Restrictions
Valid on off peak services within the zones specified
One Day Off Peak Travelcard for £29.50: Buy this ticket
One Day Off Peak Travelcard for £29.50: Show services

Details for a Super Off Peak Return
Super Off Peak Return
£37.50, valid via Via Any Permitted Route, standard class return with no railcards
Restrictions
Valid on off-peak services by the route and Train operator shown. Return travel any day within 1 month.
Super Off Peak Return for £37.50: Buy this ticket
Super Off Peak Return for £37.50: Show services

Details for a Off Peak Return
Off Peak Return
£33.50, valid via First Capital Connect Only, standard class return with no railcards
Restrictions
Valid on off-peak services by the route and Train operator shown. Return travel any day within 1 month.
Off Peak Return for £33.50: Buy this ticket
Off Peak Return for £33.50: Show services

Details for a Off Peak Return
£59.50, valid via Via Any Permitted Route, standard class return with no railcards
Restrictions
Valid on off-peak services by the route and Train operator shown. Return travel any day within 1 month.
Off Peak Return for £59.50: Buy this ticket
Off Peak Return for £59.50: Show services

Details for a Weekend Return
Weekend Return
£48.50, valid via Via Any Permitted Route, standard class return with no railcards
Restrictions
Valid for outward travel on a Friday or Saturday. Return within 4 days, but not on a Friday.
Weekend Return for £48.50: Buy this ticket
Weekend Return for £48.50: Show services

 

[moonrakerz]

moonrakerz - you can't link to individual search results like that. The results are unique to your session.

I did wonder, I posted it and then tried it and it seemed to work but it was obviously just going back in my PC to what it had temporarily stored !

 

[Capybara]

Thanks to everyone for their help and, in particular, Yorkie. I guess the answer to my original question is 'No, at least not without a lot of clicking'. Yorkie's method means going most of the way down the process towards buying the ticket but at least it gives you the options. Eventually. Most sites (and certainly National Rail's) explain what the different types of ticket are and a logical extension would be to offer to give the prices betweeen two stations of your choice. It doesn't; it's a dead end. I know these sites are set up to make money but if I decide that I want a day out tomorrow and want to quickly check the fares to two or three places before eciding where to go and going to the station to buy my ticket tomorrow, it's a right rigmarole and I might just not bother.

 

[yorkie]

I know these sites are set up to make money but if I decide that I want a day out tomorrow and want to quickly check the fares to two or three places before eciding where to go and going to the station to buy my ticket tomorrow, it's a right rigmarole and I might just not bother.

I agree. Which is why people want the Avantix CD-ROM to be available at no charge. There are, so far, no sensible arguments I can think of against making it free.

ATOC do make it difficult to find the full range of fares, and the restrictions that go with them, and make misleading statements that make it look like 2 similar fares, with identical names, are the same product, when in fact they are completely different products with completely different restrictions.

ATOC need to be brought to account, and the DfT need to start getting their act together by taking powers away from ATOC and ensuring that they look after passengers' interests.

ATOC are not at all interested in looking after passengers' interests. In any other industry the customer would matter. But the railway takes it's customers for granted and treats them like dirt. It needs to stop, soon.

NFM04 has not been 'leaked' and will, in any case, be obsolete in a months' time. Hopefully NFM05 will be leaked in January. But in the mean time, this is mostly correct.

 

[Capybara]

Thanks again. I'm fairly new on here and hadn't spotted that thread. It's reassuring at least that the reason I couldn't easily find the information is because it can't be easily found, and also that I am not alone in my concerns. While I take SWT Driver's point about the general public not comprehending all the codes in the manual, I repeat the point I made earlier that if I turn up at a railway station and tell a ticket machine where I want to go, it is able to give me the options instantly. If a machine can be programmed to do that then surely a website can also be. That's all I want.

 

[EM2]

Why this obsession with using a CD-ROM or doing it online? Why not just call?

 

[yorkie]

Why this obsession with using a CD-ROM or doing it online? Why not just call?

What's the obsession with making us call? I don't want to have to call them for a whole list of enquiries, and then write down what they say - that's absurd. It should be easily accessible. Also, why should I need access to a phone line? What if I don't want to make a noise? Is this question for real?

 

[class377man]

I know these sites are set up to make money but if I decide that I want a day out tomorrow and want to quickly check the fares to two or three places before eciding where to go and going to the station to buy my ticket tomorrow, it's a right rigmarole and I might just not bother.

I just went on the National Rail site, searched for a journey from Kings Cross to Peterborough leaving tomorrow, clicked "Check fares" and was quoted £25.90 for an Off Peak Single. This took me less time than it took me to type out this post

 

[EM2]

Is this question for real?

It's certainly for real. If you have a simple question, as the OP did, calling NRE will get you the answer quickly. I'm not saying it's perfect for every situation, but in this one, it is.
People managed perfectly well before the internet. It's made people lazy.

 

[class377man]

It's certainly for real. If you have a simple question, as the OP did, calling NRE will get you the answer quickly. I'm not saying it's perfect for every situation, but in this one, it is.
People managed perfectly well before the internet. It's made people lazy.

When you phone up NRE the person answering the call will be using near enough the same system as the website anyway, I have no idea why anyone with access to the internet would phone NRE, unless they needed travel information while on the go. I don't see how unneccesarily bringing a middle man into the situation makes someone lazier.

 

[yorkie]

It's certainly for real. If you have a simple question, as the OP did, calling NRE will get you the answer quickly. I'm not saying it's perfect for every situation, but in this one, it is.
People managed perfectly well before the internet. It's made people lazy.

How is looking up a fare any more lazy than asking someone thousands of miles away to look it up for you?

And surely one of the purposes of asking for the Avantix CD-ROM to be publicly available, is to avoid the need to use the internet (or a phone) to check fares? So I don't see how the internet making people lazy has anything to do with it.

 

[Capybara]

People I know will find it amusing that I am being accused of being made lazy by the internet as I am often accused of being a bit of a Luddite myself. But the whole point of my original post is that I am quite capable of working out my own train times and always do. All I want is the fare which I can't find out without without typing in a time and date of travel. I am then given options which I have to do further clicking around to find out what they are - peak, off-peak, advance or whatever. All of which is a complete faff when all I want to ask is a simple question which is 'what is the off-peak return fare to xxx?' The internet should be able to provide basic information such as that. And I bet if I ring them up (what is the number anyway? I'll have to look that up on the internet) the first thing they will say is 'when are you intending to travel?'

 

[tony_mac]

It's fairly easy with the East Coast site - just leave the times at the default, then you get a list of fares for that journey at the top. It should still show the fares (greyed-out) even if there are no trains available for that fare.
If you hover your mouse over the fare then it will tell you what type of fare it is.

If you want to find out the restrictions that apply to that fare, then simply translate your message into esperanto, encode it using today's key setting (which is available from your local manned station), send it out in morse code on today's sending frequency, which you will find in your frequency book (after you have decoded it with today's key setting, of course), and wait for your reply on today's receiving frequency, then reverse the process.

Ok, you can ring up and ask! Clicking on the fare shows which trains it is valid on, which is some sort of clue.

 

[Capybara]

Thanks. I'll go and do some hovering.

 

[robert2000]

thetrainline.com is prob the best.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Why this obsession with using a CD-ROM or doing it online? Why not just call?

Unlike Yorkie, I find this to be a brilliant question, because not everyone has internet access and a fair percentage of those that don't, do not even have a computer. Granted most of those that do, have a 'free' download limit which would cost less than the phone call (you can get 'free' access without getting broadband), but in reality you are still paying for that 'free' usage.

It could be said that not everyone has a phone or a phone line, but of course if you don't have these the chances of having an internet connection are somewhat limited. Perhaps we can go further by suggesting some can't read or talk, but in any event, people are fixated by 'what is online' and 'can we do it on the computer?' these days, goodness knows how we won in the war.

Seriously though, we should assume people don't have such access and that most can read and have arms and hands, tell you what, why not have a manual, say 6 volumes split by region and another for shipping and bus links.

Oh, wait......

 

[andi]

I was reading through this thinking the OP's question was quite stupid, but looking back on it, I've actually been wondering the exact same thing myself before.

Like someone else has said, the website I find easiest to bring up the fares is eastcoast, just by typing in the stations and leaving the times at defaults gets you the standard fares with the least amount of hassle. A lot less faffing around than sites such as nationalrail.co.uk and thetrainline.com.

 

[flymo]

If you want to find out the restrictions that apply to that fare, then simply translate your message into esperanto, encode it using today's key setting (which is available from your local manned station), send it out in morse code on today's sending frequency, which you will find in your frequency book (after you have decoded it with today's key setting, of course), and wait for your reply on today's receiving frequency, then reverse the process.

I knew that Enigma machine I bought on eBay would come in handy one day.

It is somewhat ridiculous that the fare/validity code thingies are not made public free of charge or at least a list of them given to you with the ticket you have just bought. Break of Journey (dis)allowed as an example.

 

[yorkie]

Unlike Yorkie, I find this to be a brilliant question, because not everyone has internet access and a fair percentage of those that don't, do not even have a computer. Granted most of those that do, have a 'free' download limit which would cost less than the phone call (you can get 'free' access without getting broadband), but in reality you are still paying for that 'free' usage.

For people with a computer but without an internet connection or a phone, then this software is the solution, surely? Yes I know they can order it for £10, but why can't a friend give them this software legally for free? I don't think ATOC are actually charging for the software anyway; it's an admin fee.

It should be freely available to download and then freely distributable.

It could be said that not everyone has a phone or a phone line, but of course if you don't have these the chances of having an internet connection are somewhat limited. Perhaps we can go further by suggesting some can't read or talk, but in any event, people are fixated by 'what is online' and 'can we do it on the computer?' these days, goodness knows how we won in the war.

But an internet connection is not needed to use the software. It is only required once to download. And easily copied via CD/USB stick.

Seriously though, we should assume people don't have such access and that most can read and have arms and hands, tell you what, why not have a manual, say 6 volumes split by region and another for shipping and bus links.

Oh, wait......

Yes, but ATOC replaced this with the CD. They used to only cover the cost of producing the manuals. But surely it can't cost £10 to produce a CD? And if it does, the solution is to ditch the CD and make it available via download for free. The cost or providing a download is negligible, and the size is smaller than the current National Rail Timetable.

 

[Helvellyn]

One reason there could be the charge for the CD is that it os prodiced by Atos Origin. They do own Avantix Traveller (and Avantix Mobile that on train staff use), so the system that produces these fares isn't ATOC's to give away for free unless they are willing to pay ATOS a great big fat fee for the privilege of having a licence to do so.

Believe me, with the money Atos Origin charge, they aren't going to start dishing out Avantix Traveller NFM05 CDs for free!