Barry Doe's Column

[MidnightFlyer]

Can I just say that despite this I still think Mr Doe is one of the best railway journalists there is, some of his work on timetables and services is excellent.

Wonder if i put a freedom of information request to the Moderators or Administrators they would reveal if he is a member!!

Are you being serious? They can't reveal stuff like that, have you seen the privacy policy?

 

[YorkshireRider]

To his credit, he did email me back a few days later, quite a lengthy reply stating that he would be using the service on invitation from EC, but that they wanted him to be accompanied so they could "answer his questions" (his words). He also stated that he would make independent trips to verify without their knowledge.

Intresting, but kind of confirms ole man's point that it was never likley to be a normal service once the crew were given the heads up, especially if management were with him. Maybe he should have waited until he made these independent trips before writing the article (or did he?).

 

[tbtc]

Can I just say that despite this I still think Mr Doe is one of the best railway journalists there is, some of his work on timetables and servcies is excellent

Absolutely - one of the good guys

 

[Flamingo]

Ask yourself, seriously, whether Barry Doe would have apologised if [it] hadn't been discussed on here ....

To be fair, that is just speculation, without one of the principles saying it in public, nobody has any way of knowing. Lets give him the benefit of the doubt

 

[Essexman]

I agree that Barry Doe's work is excellent and always enjoy his column in Rail - which is the first bit I read every issue. Maybe it helps that I tend to agree with virtually everything he writes!

He always responds to emails too and was genuinely sorry when some years ago I took offence to something he wrote.

I'm sure he wouldn't have been happy to have been set up by East Coast as it seems he was.

 

[Oswyntail]

Ask yourself, seriously, whether Barry Doe would have apologised if [it] hadn't been discussed on here ....

Do you really think this site counts for that much? Barry Doe is so obviously hyper-old school, I am inclined not to look for more sinister interpretations.

 

[junglejames]

It isn't about what this site counts for. It is about the possibility of bringing a respected publisher into disrepute.

As for "hyper old school", I'm not sure what is 'old school' about grabbing every opportunity for income....<removed>

What? Income? What from a free pass and free meals on EC? Thats hardly income. He would get paid for his column no matter what he put in there.
You have absolutely no idea why he apologised, and I would guess by your comments that you are either Ms Holt herself, or you never read his column.

He has fairly and squarely exposed EC management for what they are, and in a nice public way.
EC thought they would cleverly get some unfair public praise for their service. Well it has come back to bite them very hard on the backside.

Barry Doe's apology wasnt fake as you claim. Read his columns and you would understand this.

 

[the sniper]

Prometheus - I very much doubt it. I do wonder what your 'beef' is with Barry Doe though? Head of PR at EC, maybe? You see, we can all make random guesses at things that we'll never know...

 

[Prometheus]

What? Income? What from a free pass and free meals on EC? Thats hardly income. He would get paid for his column no matter what he put in there.

The income I am referring to is the "sponsorship" of his web site and fees for consultancy work done for TOCs.

No-one who takes TOCs' money can legitimately claim to be independent.

 

[junglejames]

The income I am referring to is the "sponsorship" of his web site and fees for consultancy work done for TOCs.

No-one who takes TOCs' money can legitimately claim to be independent.

Yes they can, because they dont work for just 1 TOC. They do work for numerous.
I think his recent columns have proved that. He was given a load of freebies from EC, and did they get the praise they thought they would? No, once he found them out, they got slammed.

 

[bnm]

Mr Doe has gone into much greater detail in his latest RAIL (issue 687) column, adding flesh to the bones of the points he made in issue 686. He's really laid into East Coast for misleading him and has again apologised to his readers.

He's also apologised to Virgin for suggesting that East Coast's 1st Class offering is now better than theirs.

He makes mention of the strict per passenger quota that makes up the East Coast offer and explains that what he was offered on the supposedly 'mystery shopper' trips he made was above and beyond that offered to regular users.

He also mentions an 'internet forum' (no prizes for guessing which one!) where he got a much better picture of the reality of the East Coast 1st Class catering.

Kudos to the guy. To use almost all his column inches to apologise to his readership is to be applauded. Not many journalists would do that, or be permitted to do so by their editor.

 

[Royston Vasey]

I agree that Barry Doe's work is excellent and always enjoy his column in Rail - which is the first bit I read every issue. Maybe it helps that I tend to agree with virtually everything he writes!

He always responds to emails too and was genuinely sorry when some years ago I took offence to something he wrote.

I'm sure he wouldn't have been happy to have been set up by East Coast as it seems he was.

Afternoon Barry!

 

[YorkshireRider]

We had a notice go up a while back telling us he was going to be out and about on our services, which helpfully had a big picture on it for those not familiar with him. I forget now what he was supposed to be doing, but I didn't come across him.

He makes some valid points I must admit, but I can't help but sometimes detect a sense of self-importance in some of his writing; maybe I'm wrong I haven't met him. I do dislike his apparent view that Guards have nothing else to do other than revenue, and perhaps his failure to appreciate that unlike him most of us don't dedicate our working lives to knowing the details of every last ticket in the machine, and that our knowledge is likely to be only as good as our training.

Having had chance to read the latest article i see that he mentions this forum and in fact uses the the first couple of lines from this quote from BestWestern as some evidence that EC misled him , Barry says:
'I was alerted to a web forum on which commenting on my article, a member of EC's catering crew wrote "We had a notice go up a while back telling us he was going to be out and about on our services, which helpfully had a big picture on it for those not familiar with him".'

Now regular readers of this forum will know BestWestern is not catering crew and nor does he work for EC but even if you are not a regular reader it seems fairly obvious from the rest of this post that he is a guard:roll::roll:. Its clear this post is reference to the company they work for (FGW?).

I can say as a member of EC catering crew that i saw no such notice and thats because one didnt exist. Maybe he would like to apologise for this inaccurate reporting in the next issue?

 

[Prometheus]

Mr Doe has gone into much greater detail in his latest RAIL (issue 687) column, adding flesh to the bones of the points he made in issue 686. He's really laid into East Coast for misleading him and has again apologised to his readers.

He's also apologised to Virgin for suggesting that East Coast's 1st Class offering is now better than theirs.

He makes mention of the strict per passenger quota that makes up the East Coast offer and explains that what he was offered on the supposedly 'mystery shopper' trips he made was above and beyond that offered to regular users.

He also mentions an 'internet forum' (no prizes for guessing which one!) where he got a much better picture of the reality of the East Coast 1st Class catering.

Kudos to the guy. To use almost all his column inches to apologise to his readership is to be applauded. Not many journalists would do that, or be permitted to do so by their editor.

Kudos to the guy indeed. And kudos to the internet forum that helped him towards making the apology, with a little encouragement from his editor.

 

[junglejames]

Having had chance to read the latest article i see that he mentions this forum and in fact uses the the first couple of lines from this quote from BestWestern as some evidence that EC misled him , Barry says:
'I was alerted to a web forum on which commenting on my article, a member of EC's catering crew wrote "We had a notice go up a while back telling us he was going to be out and about on our services, which helpfully had a big picture on it for those not familiar with him".'

Now regular readers of this forum will know BestWestern is not catering crew and nor does he work for EC but even if you are not a regular reader it seems fairly obvious from the rest of this post that he is a guard:roll::roll:. Its clear this post is reference to the company they work for (FGW?).

I can say as a member of EC catering crew that i saw no such notice and thats because one didnt exist. Maybe he would like to apologise for this inaccurate reporting in the next issue?

Oops. Is this true. So who on here alerted Barry to the post in question? Because whoever alerted him has obviously told him its a member of ECs catering crew. In fact, the first time i saw the post in question I assumed it was written by a member of ECs catering crew.

 

[bnm]

So. It would appear that there is still some 'smoke and mirrors' going on.

Mr Doe mentions an 'internal leak' and also references an 'internet forum' (in all likelihood, this one...)

Wood for the trees.... muddy waters....

Whatever the chain of events, his apologies are still welcome and I hope East Coast realise they got their fingers burnt (but not on a soup tureen obviously...!!!) on this one.

 

[YorkshireRider]

So. It would appear that there is still some 'smoke and mirrors' going on.

Mr Doe mentions an 'internal leak' and also references an 'internet forum' (in all likelihood, this one...)

Wood for the trees.... muddy waters....

Whatever the chain of events, his apologies are still welcome and I hope East Coast realise they got their fingers burnt (but not on a soup tureen obviously...!!!) on this one.

There can be no doubt it is this forum he references as the quotes are identical, now i dont question the guys integrity, nor do i disagree about his comments on long journeys as regards the catering offer in first class and his apology may well be welcome but im just saying he has argued it using false information.

 

[91101]

Aye, he can put into his own comment page whatever he wants, but when the whole magazine just turns into a super-pro HS2 rag it annoys me. Every issue has him ranting about NIMBYs and about three articles about why it is absolutely the greatest thing ever. The fact that many other magazines remain neutral on the matter yet RAIL cannot is what gets me.

I have to admit, that I have skipped a bit of this thread beyond your post, so my appologies if this has been said, but, and I have seen Nigel Harris write about this and he's right, the industry has no effective lobbying body to promote itself with both in the press and with the DfT and government, so it's only right that in the position he is in as what is probably the most widely read Railway publication he uses that to generally campaign FOR and stand up for the industry.

 

[Greenback]

Barry Doe does not have to be told about this forum, or any of its contents. I am sure he is aware of its existence, and if not it is quite easy to find and to browse the various posts and threads without registering to becoming a member.

 

[Prometheus]

I have to admit, that I have skipped a bit of this thread beyond your post, so my appologies if this has been said, but, and I have seen Nigel Harris write about this and he's right, the industry has no effective lobbying body to promote itself with both in the press and with the DfT and government, so it's only right that in the position he is in as what is probably the most widely read Railway publication he uses that to generally campaign FOR and stand up for the industry.

I respect Nigel Harris because he is prepared to express his opinion; he has strong opinions, so it is inevitable that not everyone will agree.

I don't agree with him about HS2, but neither does Christian Wolmar. To be fair, Harris appears to allow Wolmar free rein in his column in the magazine. Also, the letters about HS2 that are chosen for publication appear to represent all shades of opinion, so there is really nothing to complain about in terms of an overall bias.

It is refreshing to read strong opinions in RAIL, whether from Wolmar, Harris or anyone else. The magazine is a more interesting read than other rail titles, and there is no danger of falling asleep as I do when I read "Modern Railways". :roll:

 

[junglejames]

Barry Doe does not have to be told about this forum, or any of its contents. I am sure he is aware of its existence, and if not it is quite easy to find and to browse the various posts and threads without registering to becoming a member.

But he himself said he was told of the forum.

 

[Greenback]

But he himself said he was told of the forum.

I don;t think he has said he was told of the forum. He was probably told of the thread, but I have no doubt he was aware of the forum, as are other columnists. I would bet my life savings on it.

 

[junglejames]

From Barrys mouth himself. The post from GreatWestern is not the post he was referring to. He hasnt seen this particular thread.

Yes the quotes are near identical, but there arent really many other ways of saying what was said.
Also, the poster worked for EC.

 

[YorkshireRider]

It wasnt bestwesterns quote he was refering too?? Even though the quote is word for word identical, not near identical but identical, the exact same sentences, come on. He may well have recieved emails from EC staff but this quote he got wrong unless anyone has a link to this other post to prove otherwise.

 

[junglejames]

It wasnt bestwesterns quote he was refering too?? Even though the quote is word for word identical, not near identical but identical, the exact same sentences, come on. He may well have recieved emails from EC staff but this quote he got wrong unless anyone has a link to this other post to prove otherwise.

Well unless you are calling him a blatant liar, he has said it wasnt the post he was referring to. He is wondering if somebody else has been copying and pasting, but the post he referred to definitely mentioned EC, and the poster said he worked for EC.
He hasnt said what forum it was on. Someone else can ask him if they ont believe it.

 

[ole man]

Mr Doe doesn't mention the forum in which he was talking about, but its not rocket science to work out somebody told him of this thread, and as previously stated he might even be a member or just looked when told.

Most Rail Publishers are aware of this forum, and i bet most are members, its a easy way to get up-to date information which otherwise might be withheld by Network Rail and TOC's

 

[YorkshireRider]

Well unless you are calling him a blatant liar, he has said it wasnt the post he was referring to. He is wondering if somebody else has been copying and pasting, but the post he referred to definitely mentioned EC, and the poster said he worked for EC.
He hasnt said what forum it was on. Someone else can ask him if they ont believe it.

No, he obviously hasnt purposely lied, i was just pointing out that the original quote used did not come from EC staff and that i wasnt aware of any notices going up about Barry Doe within EC. That said i only work in one depot and he may well have other information from other EC staff from other depots. Im sure now he has been made aware of it he will get to the bottom of it, hopefully he will recieve a response to his article by EC management if he hasnt already.

 

[junglejames]

Mr Doe doesn't mention the forum in which he was talking about, but its not rocket science to work out somebody told him of this thread, and as previously stated he might even be a member or just looked when told.

But he hasnt seen this thread apparently. The post he refers to was not the one on here.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

No, he obviously hasnt purposely lied, i was just pointing out that the original quote used did not come from EC staff and that i wasnt aware of any notices going up about Barry Doe within EC.

It would be interesting to know why a quote from here has ended up as part of another post somewhere else. Unless its a total coincidence and someone has typed exactly the same.

 

[ole man]

Where is this other post?.How did this other post get mentioned on this forum.

The article published by Mr Doe doesnt mention the title of the forum, or who wrote it, and i doubt if he will ever reveal his source.

 

[Oracle]

I confess! I have sent links to threads to Barry in the past (re ticketing) so he knows of this Forum!
Sackcloth and Ashes time I think!