Baroness Thatcher has died

[swj99]

take a look at what actually happened to the millions of people thrown on the scrap heap and the communities, still suffering today, that were destroyed by her policies.

Fair comment.
Thatcher removed from companies the protection that they had benefited from for many years, which exposed them to fierce competition from foreign companies, which still had government support in their own home markets. Many of these UK companies failed while their EU competitors did not. As a result of her economic policies, there was a significant contraction of the manufacturing sector between 1979 and 1982. Output fell by 16%, investment fell by 30%, GDP fell by 6%, and unemployment rose from 1.3 million to over 2.8 million.

part of the country ripped apart by her cruel, vile and divisive politics.

I can understand how people in the south of the country might not be aware of this, but there is indeed still evidence of the damage, if you look for it further north.

I don’t think all the ills of this country can be blamed on Thatcher, and whilst I wouldn’t wish death on anyone, in my opinion she was no saint, and I certainly don’t think she was the saviour that many believe her to have been.

Now her successors vilify the people put in this mess by the spiritual leader. Nice.

I'm so pleased to find I'm not alone in thinking the same thing.

And where has this policy led? Massive underprovision of housing.

Correct, and it led to a housing boom and proliferation of buy to let landlords who of course charge market rents for their properties, and is a significant reason that local authorities today pay out such a lot of money in housing benefit, which of course results in higher council tax bills for those eligible to pay it.

But the number of houses was still the same, so if anything it would reduce demand in the rental sector and bring prices down. Pretty basic economics really.

Not quite. In fact the opposite is probably true.

The difference is that with the old idea of 'social housing', rents were affordable and not subject to profit or market forces. However the private rental market is.

There has been a massive growth in the private rented sector in the last 20 years. In 1991 less than 7% of people lived in privately rented accommodation, whereas now it is nearly 16%. Buy to let mortgages were introduced in 1995 and there are now over 1.5 million buy to let mortgages in the UK. According to the government’s Survey of English Housing for 2008 and 2009, there were estimated to be around a million landlords in the UK.

Because of the growth in the UK population, 250,000 new properties need to be built every year. But this target has not been met, and the shortage means demand has outstripped supply, which has fuelled the rise in property prices.
The UK rented property market is still a growing market because while mortgage lending is still tight, demand for properties is still growing, so people are having to rent rather than buy.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

I just cannot understand people who openly celebrate her death. By all means don't mourn her if one doesn't have anything positive to say about her, but to openly celebrate a human being's passing strikes me as being incredibly spiteful and childish. She is no Stalin, nor Fred West, so why all this vitriol?

Mainly down to the fact that she practically declared war on half of the country using Special Branch, M.I.5 and police forces to further her grip on power. They had free rein under her to do pretty much whatever they wanted to and it has taken decades for the police to gain any respect in many areas after what they done in her name.
A great leader UNITES a country - she irrevocably fragmented this one.
Her answer to the decline in our manufacturing base wasn't to modernise it like the rest of Europe but to irreversibly destroy it putting all the eggs in to the basket of a service economy.
I have suffered a number of bereavments over the past 18 months and generally empathise with someone's loss but in the case, call me callous if you like, I just can't help feeling good about it.
Even in her death she still divides this nation - Good riddance - rot in hell.

 

[Southwest]

The best thing the Tory party did was to stab her in the back. It showed what viscious swine they can be even to their own.

Cameron has just written to the Thatcher residence.

The start of the letter says "I regret to inform you that due to recent events, you now have too many bedrooms."

 

[Geezertronic]

New Labour were knobs. What more can be said?

They stuffed me in 1997 and the current Mr Ed and Ed show is much worse than those in power at the moment, I dread to think of these cowboys getting into power - still think the wrong Miliband got the Labour hotseat though

 

[Darandio]

Why would you have thought this? You'd like just a thread with people saying how wonderful she was? I thought real life didn't work that way.

I wouldn't like to see a thread which leaned that way, it should be there for people to voice both their likes and dislikes, how any policies she had have affected them for bad or for worse.

I think the issue with that post is nothing to do with having a one sided thread, I just see the celebration of her death as very poor taste.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Because the "Left" have never come to terms with the fact she garnered so much support from the "working classes" whom they consider their natural "voting fodder".

You may have a point there....but of course she appealed to the basest instinct of many people, that is why she managed to do what she did......
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

They stuffed me in 1997 and the current Mr Ed and Ed show is much worse than those in power at the moment, I dread to think of these cowboys getting into power - still think the wrong Miliband got the Labour hotseat though

Don't quite understand you here, the other Miliband was just another Blairite, is that what you are saying you wanted?

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . . . I just see the celebration of her death as very poor taste.

I agree.

 

[Railsigns]

Good riddance to one of the most destructive and divisive leaders this country has ever seen.

Suddenly Britain has become a little bit better and Hell just got a little more crowded.

 

[455driver]

Oswyntail @ 16:32 and bb21 @ 1649, will you please stop bringing cold hard facts into this thread please!

Who can remember Austin Rover downing tools every 5 minutes because somebody sneezed?
Or the miners churning out record coal production and then going on strike (well not actually going on strike because there never was a vote was there, mr Scargill said everyone out and they basically walked themselves out of a job) but because of the afore mentioned coal production, all stored at the power stations, it didnt make much difference as the lights never went out.
I still maintain that if there had been a vote then a strike would have been much more productive (and quick) but because nobody (except mr AS) had their say some of the miners went back to work to feed their families, the fact there had never been a vote meant they didnt break the (supposed) strike, a fact conveniently overlooked by some.

 

[Trog]

Good riddance to one of the most destructive and divisive leaders this country has ever seen.

Suddenly Britain has become a little bit better and Hell just got a little more crowded.

What has Tony Bliar died as well?

 

[wintonian]

I fear that there may be a need for her remains to be laid to rest in a secure mausoleum, perhaps one of the many disused mines around Merthyr Tydfil would be suitable?

I am neither a Labourite nor a Tory, but rather a social democrat and IMO the failings of Keynesian allowed the incoming neo-liberals to throw the 'baby out with the bath water' and attempt to dismantle the welfare state, proving that a true corporate led capitalist society would be socially irresponsible by definition.

 

[Railsigns]

What has Tony Bliar died as well?

I don't know of anyone of that name. This thread's about Maggie Thatcher.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Oswyntail @ 16:32 and bb21 @ 1649, will you please stop bringing cold hard facts into this thread please!

Who can remember Austin Rover downing tools every 5 minutes because somebody sneezed?
Or the miners churning out record coal production and then going on strike (well not actually going on strike because there never was a vote was there, mr Scargill said everyone out and they basically walked themselves out of a job) but because of the afore mentioned coal production, all stored at the power stations, it didnt make much difference as the lights never went out.
I still maintain that if there had been a vote then a strike would have been much more productive (and quick) but because nobody (except mr AS) had their say some of the miners went back to work to feed their families, the fact there had never been a vote meant they didnt break the (supposed) strike, a fact conveniently overlooked by some.

Do you not recall how she sold the UDM down the river as well?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If this thread containing so much hate and immature childish ill informed rubbish was about an ex Labour leader it wouldn't have got past page 1.

I don't think any Labour PM has been so divisive
...just because you do not agree with it doesn't make it 'immature childish ill informed or rubbish!

 

[455driver]

Do you not recall how she sold the UDM down the river as well?

I can remember the coal mining industry in this Country being unable to compete with the cheap coal available on the global market!

Is that what you mean?

 

[nedchester]

Good riddance!!!

 

[Geezertronic]

You Don't quite understand you here, the other Miliband was just another Blairite, is that what you are saying you wanted?

I am not saying anything constructive about Labour and never would, although I believe they would stand a better chance with David Miliband over Mr Ed who comes across worse than Cameron IMO, and the other Mr Ed is named accordingly since he talks a lot of Balls

 

[table38]

Well if nothing else, at least this thread will serve as a reminder of how unpleasant some of the individuals who post on this forum are.

 

[SS4]

If this thread containing so much hate and immature childish ill informed rubbish was about an ex Labour leader it wouldn't have got past page 1.

No Labour leader has been so divisive in policy. Neither has my grandma before you rebuild that straw man.

Seems to me your definition of rubbish is "things I don't agree with". From the house fire thread (newbie babs is quoted for context):

I have 4 children and soon 5 grandchildren, none of my children who are all adults are on benefits. They were brought up to work and their children mean the earth to them as mine do to me.

They should have hung all 3 of them for their depraved lifestyle they had and I hope the inmates give the children the justice they deserve and deal with them they way the courts should have.

Oh dear you'll really upset the Liberals.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
As I saw it elsewhere: gone, but not forgiven which serves as a decent enough epitaph (hope this doesn't offend the unusually touchy-feely folk who think free speech also died this afternoon)

 

[nedchester]

Well if nothing else, at least this thread will serve as a reminder of how unpleasant some of the individuals who post on this forum are.

and a reminder of how unpleasant Margaret Thatcher was (some people have very long memories).

 

[ReverendFozz]

A few people on here should be ashamed of themselves celebrating an old ladies death.

This thread should be closed.

Why should it be closed, free speech and all that , would you rather people tell barefaced lies and speak highly of her, most people I know would rather shoot themselves than say anything positive about her.

I personally dont like her, but then I have been brought up in East Durham where there is absolutely no love for her whatsoever, people who will quite happily dance on her grave, that in my opinion is low and disrespectful.

Wonder how history talks about her legacy, will she be remembered for The Falklands, helping to end the Cold War or will she be remembered for things like smashing the unions, civil unrest all through the 80s, poll tax...

I wont shed a tear for her, I also dont care about her, why should I she did nothing for me personally, one thing I will not do is celebrate her death, I would not have a party to celebrate her dying, I was brought up better than that and I am not disrespectful

 

[Manchester77]

I'm not happy she's dead. She was an influential political figure but that doesn't really change my opinion of her. What you'll probably find is that middle and upper class people will be devastated and feel like they've lost a family member, but most working class people's will be elated. I'm not gonna disagree with the people being like yay cos that's their opinion but you can't argue with the number of people who lost their job through her 'modernisation'.

P.S. dear BBC I'd like to find out about what's actually going on not just George stood outside Downing Street going on about Thatcher. Ok?

Also...

Hahaha oh Scotland:') by Manchester_77, on Flickr

Had to laugh when I saw this :')

Also if you can't accept the fact that not everyone loved her have you been living in a hole..?

 

[DarloRich]

I can remember the coal mining industry in this Country being unable to compete with the cheap coal available on the global market!

Some investment in decent equipment, new techniques, better training and conditions and general modernisation might have helped! There were lots of pits with lifetimes of reserves. They could be still fueling our power stations now.

As i said before. Change was needed. That change didn't need to destroy whole sections of society.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

I can remember the coal mining industry in this Country being unable to compete with the cheap coal available on the global market!

Is that what you mean?

No, I meant that her government sought to split the NUM (divide and rule) and supported the establishment of the 'moderate' UDM, especially in Notts....and then closed the pits there as well!
Actually, I don't recall at the time that there was much emphasis on cheap coal from abroad....didn't that come later?

 

[Trog]

Some investment in decent equipment, new techniques, better training and conditions and general modernisation might have helped! There were lots of pits with lifetimes of reserves. They could be still fueling our power stations now.

Who are you kidding there is no way on earth deep mined coal was ever going to compete with coal dug out of open cast pits by diggers the size of a house, even if you modernised to the extent of giving the miners light sabers to cut the stuff out with.

 

[ReverendFozz]

Am I right in saying that the Miners Strike itself caused more pits to close earlier than would have been, I remember someone telling me a lot more pits closed than was planned because shafts were flooded and it was tol costly to drain them, the strike pretty much played into Thatchers hands...But then people always told me Thatcher and Scargill were as bad as each other and that no matter what happened the miners were always going to be pulled out no matter what and Scargill did whatever he could to get his strike

 

[Oswyntail]

......
As i said before. Change was needed. That change didn't need to destroy whole sections of society.

Sadly, change was needed, but approaches to discuss change were ignored by Arthur Scargill. There was a need for reform of union law (Flying Pickets, for instance), but it could have been a hell of a lot more civilised without him.

 

[Butts]

Am I right in saying that the Miners Strike itself caused more pits to close earlier than would have been, I remember someone telling me a lot more pits closed than was planned because shafts were flooded and it was tol costly to drain them, the strike pretty much played into Thatchers hands...But then people always told me Thatcher and Scargill were as bad as each other and that no matter what happened the miners were always going to be pulled out no matter what and Scargill did whatever he could to get his strike

I bet Labour were secretly pleased it was a Scargill/Thatcher confrontation, it would have been far more diffilcult for them to close the mines down.

 

[bb21]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7952388.stm

The miners' strike was an epic industrial dispute, which left the coal industry bloodied and broken. But its output dropped before the Iron Lady became PM, says Michael Blastland in his regular column.

It's the 25th anniversary of the 1984 miners' strike, an event that's become a political epoch, remembered as knock-down fight to the finish, Thatcher v Scargill.
So here's a puzzle.

Each of the four lines in the chart below shows UK mining output over four 11-year periods: 11 years before Margaret Thatcher; 11 years after; 11 year of New Labour; and 11 years of Thatcher herself...

Interesting statistics.

It more or less demonstrates what I have already said. Thatcher is not the main culprit of the demise of an industry already in permanent decline.

 

[Requeststop]

Well if nothing else, at least this thread will serve as a reminder of how unpleasant some of the individuals who post on this forum are.

wonderful remark from someone whose strapline is "criminally insane".

 

[DarloRich]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7952388.stm
Interesting statistics.

It more or less demonstrates what I have already said. Thatcher is not the main culprit of the demise of an industry already in permanent decline.

all that shows is there as a falling demand for coal. It does not show how or why viable and profitable pits were destroyed simply to service dogma.

I am also sure it will offer succor to those thrown onto the scrap heap. I am sure all of those vast job creation schemes meant all of these people quickly found new employment. Oh hang on.........