Banbury - all the changes

[MarkyT]

. . . Immediately beyond the stop-block of the down loop the Oxford Canal passes under, pretty much at right-angles. The loop headshunt can't continue north unless the bridge is widened.

Noted. It looks like the abutments were built for a wider bridge if necessary.

I understood from local sources that the new platform 4 will be the whole length of the station and gobble up both north and south facing bays. I never heard of it being "short".

The 133m figure was from The Planner. I guessed it would be at the north end.

Knowing the site fairly well, I assumed that the up loops would describe a fairly smooth arc, not the wiggly ends you have shown. Bridge Street crosses the railway between the station and Banb. North S.Bx., and the goods loop swings wide to clear the bridge support pier. I know it's a diagram, but addition of the bridge (and the canal) would enhance the graphics I thought.

It's a fair comment, but some of the curves on loops and turnouts, especially on the up side, are 'false'. That is to say, they are not present in real life but are necessary for a straight line diagram to keep the loops parallel with the main lines. In reality, the curvature of the whole station site allows the tracks to splay apart around the platforms without such a wiggly approach on the loops. I could redraw the whole thing on a curve but that is time-consuming so I probably won't. I have shown the road, canal and river bridges.

There was, and may yet be, a siding (or two?) parallel to the up loop north of the station - "Engineer's siding?" Are we keeping that?

There is one siding north of the road bridge, called the middle road. It is to be removed according to The Planner.

There was an oil siding to the south-west of the station. Keeping it? (There are some storage tanks immediately west of the station). - I always assumed they were part of the same facility.

There's a headshunt for the mileage sidings there that projects towards the old steam depot site. It looks like the new depot reception roughly follows same alignment.

New version 3 : http://www.townend.me/files/banbury.pdf

 

[BanburyBlue]

So how does the length of the new platform 4 compare to the length of the existing platform 4? Or, what length of train, in terms of how many carriages, can you get on a 133m platform?

 

[MarkyT]

New Version 4 : http://www.townend.me/files/banbury.pdf
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So how does the length of the new platform 4 compare to the length of the existing platform 4? Or, what length of train, in terms of how many carriages, can you get on a 133m platform?

Should take a single 4 or 5 car Cross Country voyager (5 x 23m = 115m), or up to 5 cars of Chiltern or GW 23m DMUs in various formations, possibly more if SDO provided. The Chiltern Mk3 sets would be too long, but again anything's possible with SDO if they were so equipped - only one passenger door need be isolated.

 

[Overload]

New Version 4 : http://www.townend.me/files/banbury.pdf
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---




Should take a single 4 or 5 car Cross Country voyager (5 x 23m = 115m), or up to 5 cars of Chiltern or GW 23m DMUs in various formations, possibly more if SDO provided. The Chiltern Mk3 sets would be too long, but again anything's possible with SDO if they were so equipped - only one passenger door need be isolated.

Liking the revised sketch. Very good!

 

[The Planner]

That's pretty much spot on apart from the 55 on the up goods, its 50, just also need to double check the run off you have on the Up Goods, not sure that is planned.

 

[L&Y Robert]

Noted. It looks like the abutments were built for a wider bridge if necessary.

I seem to remember it was a wider bridge at one time, the ironstone quarry railway came in from the west, and, I think, connected to a much longer down loop. I definitely remember travelling to Birmingham on a DMU and passing long lines of iron ore hoppers on the left just north of Banbury. There isn't much trace of the ironstone line now, my map shows a footpath on the line of it passing through Hardwick, so it must have connected about where the M40 bridge is now.
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Pausing on the Grimsbury Green bridge this afternoon, I saw that floodlights had been laid out (but not erected) along both sides of the running lines from Hennef Way bridge to the canal bridge - so that, I guess, is the work-site. I also saw, with binocs, that the new facing crossover is assembled on the cleared site north of the stone terminal, and the new up loop turnout similarly assembled on the other side of the line. We (I met a fellow traveller on the bridge) thought the work must be imminent - anybody know the timetable for the job?
I noticed that one of those temporary level crossing thingies (to allow plant to get onto the line) was already in place (what are they called, those thingies?) There were also 5 or 6 pieces of heavy yellow plant on the site, but not an orange suit to be seen.

 

[swt_passenger]

I noticed that one of those temporary level crossing thingies (to allow plant to get onto the line) was already in place (what are they called, those thingies?)

I think the current term is Road Rail Access Point (RRAP), some of the recent installations on the SWML near me seem semi-permanent, with substantial concrete approaches built outside the track.

 

[Andyjs247]

Does anyone know when we see some real action? Bricks in the ground and all that?

Work seems to be starting on the ground at Banbury this weekend, Sunday 24 May. Line closed between Banbury and Leamington all day. (Line also closed between Princes Risborough and Beaconsfield until 12.30 - there is engineering work at High Wycombe also.)

Following week there is an all day closure between Dorridge and Beaconsfield on Sunday 31 May. Various line closures on the Chiltern line on a Sunday now until July - no doubt someone will have more details than I do.

 

[The Planner]

Can imagine there will be works all the way to August 16 when its due to be comissioned.

 

[swt_passenger]

Can imagine there will be works all the way to August 16 when its due to be comissioned.

Presumably as the up side alterations require the existing stabling roads to be taken out of use there needs to be progress with the new depot fairly quickly?

Or can units be stabled elsewhere temporarily?

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Bad idea not having bays. They're perfect for shuttles and storing duff units as well as normal terminating services.

Not having bays for such things just leaves the station "open" to errors and congestion, when it goes pear shaped and you need somewhere nearby to store a unit or loco quickly & get things moving.

 

[MarkyT]

Bad idea not having bays. They're perfect for shuttles and storing duff units as well as normal terminating services.

Not having bays for such things just leaves the station "open" to errors and congestion, when it goes pear shaped and you need somewhere nearby to store a unit or loco quickly & get things moving.

The new bi-directional through platform 4 as a replacement for the up side bay is much more useful though. Trains terminating can cross straight over into 4, which they can't do with the bay today, or they can go to 1 or 2. From 1 or 2 they can go north over the north end crossovers to reverse on the down main and regain the up side, including pl 4, or they can depart directly towards London from the down side (that can be done today). An option for Chiltern services would be to reverse from 1 to layover in the depot reception / departure roads then shunt back to 1 or via the departure road and south crossovers to the up side to form a new service. Contingency for a failed (but movable) Chilterns unit clearly will be to put it in the depot sidings, but for a GWR unit I don't know. Perhaps they will have an arrangement with Chiltern to go in the depot - maybe NR wrote that clause into the lease deal for the depot land.
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A hopefully final V5 of my diagram is available : http://www.townend.me/files/banbury.pdf

 

[The Planner]

Bad idea not having bays. They're perfect for shuttles and storing duff units as well as normal terminating services.

Not having bays for such things just leaves the station "open" to errors and congestion, when it goes pear shaped and you need somewhere nearby to store a unit or loco quickly & get things moving.

Its a re-signalling job so the bays would have be shortened anyway as the current buffers won't be up to current regs. You would never get more than 2 cars in them, so pretty much useless. There is no reason why you couldn't hide something on the Chiltern depot if required or on the down goods.

 

[OneTrackMind]

There was a ballast train this afternoon just north of the north signal box, although completely unphotographable. An awful lot of Colas Rail personnel were around shaking hands and all...

It appears whatever is gonna happen, is gonna happen tonight due to the lighting being erected and with the arrival of 6V82.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U36456/2015/05/24/advanced

Some images for your viewing...

Nothing going on in the station or to the south by the way.

 

[MarkyT]

Some images for your viewing...
. . .

Thanks. The third picture confirms the two existing stone sidings diverge separately from the down goods loop, and that is what is shown in the sectional appendix, both under control of the ground frame.

It makes sense for both sidings (plus the new tamper siding) to share only one controlled, trapped connection in the future however, so if that is the final arrangement it must be part of the changes planned. Some further modification to my drawing I fear! Can The Planner advise please?

 

[L&Y Robert]

Thanks. The third picture confirms the two existing stone sidings diverge separately from the down goods loop, and that is what is shown in the sectional appendix, both under control of the ground frame.

It makes sense for both sidings (plus the new tamper siding) to share only one controlled, trapped connection in the future however, so if that is the final arrangement it must be part of the changes planned. Some further modification to my drawing I fear! Can The Planner advise please?

The ground frame will be abolished?

On the left in yo ur pic., behind blue netting can be seen the new facing crossover, and just visible nearer the camera is the new down loop turnout. Across the line laid out on the ground is the new up loop turnout.

Yesterday morning there were two trains on the down, comprising about 6 wagonsloaded withf old bullhead rail on wooden sleepers, and following in the consist an indeterminate number of bogies full of spent ballast, all coming from the down loop just north of the station. A bit later (lunch-time-ish) work seemed to be concentrated on the down loop just north of Banb. N signal box.

 

[150219]

Bad idea not having bays. They're perfect for shuttles and storing duff units as well as normal terminating services.

Not having bays for such things just leaves the station "open" to errors and congestion, when it goes pear shaped and you need somewhere nearby to store a unit or loco quickly & get things moving.

The bay platforms at Banbury don't have the facility for terminating trains, they're only accessible after shunting. More often than not, the adjacent sidings are used for failures.

 

[MarkyT]

New drawing version available here:
http://www.townend.me/files/banbury.pdf

 

[didcot]

Work being carried out at Banbury Junction today - looks like the new Up Main to Up Goods turn out being installed

 

[BanburyBlue]

Just re-read this post and it seems a little strange that one of the key benefits of the layout changes was to improve operational flexibility, when by removing all the sidings and stabling areas this surely must decrease operational flexibility. Unless there's an assumption that the new shed will pick this up?

 

[swt_passenger]

Just re-read this post and it seems a little strange that one of the key benefits of the layout changes was to improve operational flexibility, when by removing all the sidings and stabling areas this surely must decrease operational flexibility. Unless there's an assumption that the new shed will pick this up?

The planning application details showed that the new depot provides significantly more stabling space than the existing, as well as the maintenance shed roads.

 

[OneTrackMind]

Both of the mainline points being installed today.

 

[L&Y Robert]

New drawing version available here:
http://www.townend.me/files/banbury.pdf

So when all is finished, a train coming in from the north could be routed along any of four roads into the station. Is that right? Somewhere (out of sight from the Grimsbury Lane bridge) must be a new signal covering this set of options - a red/green with three feathers? And on the same theme, new signals to control north-bound traffic on down main and down loop, and also the exit from the (now quite long) headshunt, and perhaps from the stone terminal sidings into said headshunt as well.

The stone train was unloading there yesterday morning, left northwards at about 11-45.

 

[The Planner]

Signal OL3148 which replaces BN51 on the up main will have 3 feathers to use all 4 routes. New signals will be on the down lines too, nothing out of the stone sidings though.

 

[MarkyT]

Both of the mainline points being installed today.

Can you get a shot once all the plant is out the way so I can adjust the relative point positions on my diagram accordingly. I'm thinking about putting the new signal positions on as well. I've got a pretty good idea of where they must go, but haven't got access to numbers and precise form of gantries etc.

 

[OneTrackMind]

Update now the points are in, work I believe was going on towards the south of the station today.

 

[L&Y Robert]

Update now the points are in, work I believe was going on towards the south of the station today.

Today (13/07/2015) I saw that the points Up Main to Up Loop are in and appear operational, but both sets of points which make the new facing crossover are missing rails (the curved bits in the four-foot). The same is true of the Down Loop into Down Main points, but the corresponding turnout from the Down Loop is missing entirely, so there's a lot to do still. There was a team (of 7) orange-clad persons scratching about there yesterday.

There was indeed track-work of some sort to the south of the station yesterday, a long spoil train in evidence on the Down, and plant and equipment moving about beyond Banbury South signal box. It is difficult to get near this area without trespassing - I went as far as I legitimately could. I did see, however, that work has started on Chiltern's train maintenance and storage facility on the old steam shed site; a site office established, generator installed and running, access ways opened up for plant and deliveries, and some site clearance done.

 

[HowardGWR]

In the photo, the sidings track work looks like it was laid by Gromit, similar to my old Triang train set on the carpet. That is a very nasty kink, so it seems, in the inner one. Did any rolling stock ever actually pass over it?

 

[dysonsphere]

In the photo, the sidings track work looks like it was laid by Gromit, similar to my old Triang train set on the carpet. That is a very nasty kink, so it seems, in the inner one. Did any rolling stock ever actually pass over it?

Given the rails are nice and shiny thats a telephoto lens error making it look worse than it is.

 

[150219]

In the photo, the sidings track work looks like it was laid by Gromit, similar to my old Triang train set on the carpet. That is a very nasty kink, so it seems, in the inner one. Did any rolling stock ever actually pass over it?

Yes, 6G32 was unloading yesterday.