Banbury - all the changes

[L&Y Robert]

Called at Banbury station this morning to pick up my advance tickets, and found the environs of the station swarming with orange suits. Several Railtrack vans parked here and there, and others coming and going. The orange persons seemed to be moving off in fits and starts along the down loop to the north of the station. So something's happening.

So I thought we should have a seperate thread for Banbury, there are several projects in the offing:

Re-development of the old steam shed site,
Widening of platform 3 to make a new platform 4,
- and associated re-alignment of track to the new platform face,
Possibly a new, extra, Up loop next to the new platform road,
Re-laying of some of the four running lines north of the station,
General re-arrangement of tracks in the area of the station,
Re-signalling of the whole area, loss of the semaphores.

I know these topics have been touched on in other threads in the forum, but it'd be handy if they could be collected under one roof, as it were.

 

[MarkyT]

Called at Banbury station this morning to pick up my advance tickets, and found the environs of the station swarming with orange suits. Several Railtrack vans parked here and there, and others coming and going. The orange persons seemed to be moving off in fits and starts along the down loop to the north of the station. So something's happening.

So I thought we should have a seperate thread for Banbury, there are several projects in the offing:

Re-development of the old steam shed site,
Widening of platform 3 to make a new platform 4,
- and associated re-alignment of track to the new platform face,
Possibly a new, extra, Up loop next to the new platform road,
Re-laying of some of the four running lines north of the station,
General re-arrangement of tracks in the area of the station,
Re-signalling of the whole area, loss of the semaphores.

I know these topics have been touched on in other threads in the forum, but it'd be handy if they could be collected under one roof, as it were.

Are there any layout sketches online illustrating the changes planned. I could produce something in the style of my previous illustrations* if someone could provide me with suitable details.

* examples -
http://www.townend.me/files/newtonabbot.pdf
http://www.townend.me/files/ashford.pdf
http://www.townend.me/files/oxford.pdf

 

[Cherry_Picker]

I've not seen any plans but up and down goods loops look like they are being upgraded to carry passengers too, they run a good way north of the station (maybe the best part of a mile) and a replacement for the pointwork for the start of the up goods is already in situ. Banbury North and South boxes will be going as part of the resignalling which is a bit of a shame.

 

[didcot]

Track and points being assembled at the old Banbury Junction in connection with the resignaling

 

[Mag_seven]

Several Railtrack vans parked here and there

Really?

 

[The Planner]

Right then.....

Down direction. Banbury South box knocked down to allow an improved 30mph turnout (15mph now). Turnout from the down loop to the north of the platform moved slightly north and made 30mph (15mph now). Connection from Down Main to Down Goods north of the station is removed. The un-numbered bay platform at the north is removed. Down Goods loop increased from 15mph to 40mph from the connection from the loop to down main all the way to Banbury North Jn near the stone terminal. Milk Dock, Horse Dock and the sidings behind the down platform all removed. Access provided from the down loop to the new depot as well as an access south of the station on the Down Main. New 40mph connection from Down Main to Up Main south of the station to allow bi-di access into Platform 3 and the new Platform 4. Access back to Down Main via current crossover which is increased from 15 to 25mph. Down Main and Down loop made bi-di all the way to Banbury North Jn to allow half station blocks.

Up direction the Cattle Roads and Middle Road all removed (where Chiltern currently stable). Up Goods connection at Banbury North increased from 15mph to 50mph with flashing yellows and made passenger rated. Up Goods made 25mph from 15mph and slewed over at the station to allow the new platform 4 loop line which is 25mph. Current Platform 4 bay to the south of the station removed. New 40mph crossover at Banbury North on the up to allow access to the newly bi-di Down Loop and Down Main.

Speed through the station stays at 75mph with the 90mph either side, passive for greater than 90mph either side.

I think that covers it.....

 

[L&Y Robert]

Right then.....

I think that covers it.....

Wow!
Yep - guess it does!
Thanks for that, we'll know what to expect.

Er, - anything known about Chiltern's plans for the new facilities on the old steam shed site?
(Sigh - ah! - those were the days).

 

[didcot]

Plan for depot as submitted to council

http://npa.cherwell.gov.uk/AnitePublicDocs/07744139.pdf

 

[L&Y Robert]

Right then.....

I think that covers it.....

And the re-laying job north of the station? When is that going to happen? Noted today piles of concrete sleepers have appeared near the Stone terminal - towards the end of the down loop. No orange suits though - it's Friday afternoon and pouring down!

By a strange co-incidence just now they are re-conductoring the line of electricity pylons which crosses the site. Nobody there, either.

 

[dysonsphere]

And the re-laying job north of the station? When is that going to happen? Noted today piles of concrete sleepers have appeared near the Stone terminal - towards the end of the down loop. No orange suits though - it's Friday afternoon and pouring down!

By a strange co-incidence just now they are re-conductoring the line of electricity pylons which crosses the site. Nobody there, either.

LMAO it THURSDAY today

 

[cle]

Does much 'non-stop' Banbury? I didn't think so, but it probably doesn't need 2tph on XC. Could see trains running fast from Oxford to Coventry/Birmingham.

 

[The Planner]

It will always stay 2tph XC.

 

[D1009]

Does much 'non-stop' Banbury? I didn't think so,

Erm, a lot of freight does.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Does much 'non-stop' Banbury? I didn't think so, but it probably doesn't need 2tph on XC. Could see trains running fast from Oxford to Coventry/Birmingham.

Two or three Chiltern services a day in each direction and most of the freight.

 

[The Planner]

A lot more freight will stop after the re-signalling, it is too slow and cumbersome to do it there in the up currently and stuff normally goes down to Aynho, the improvements mean it will be easier to get trains out the way. Down trains will get a performance boost and stop knocking trains behind them, either that or ran to an improved Fenny Compton.

 

[L&Y Robert]

LMAO it THURSDAY today

What's LMAO?

Yes, of course! I've been a day out all week! BBC's internet weather forecast is a day out as well.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Are there any layout sketches online illustrating the changes planned. I could produce something in the style of my previous illustrations* if someone could provide me with suitable details.

* examples -
http://www.townend.me/files/newtonabbot.pdf
http://www.townend.me/files/ashford.pdf
http://www.townend.me/files/oxford.pdf

Yes, that'd be really good - they are nice graphics all of 'em. "The Planner" 's info (post 6) is very helpful, but when I tried to make a diagram out of it I found I was short of the really essential detail, for example:
Will the new platform 4 road be a simple loop off the up main, or off the re-aligned up loop, or both? I read that there are to be these two up loops, but joining together before connecting back into the up main, or connecting separately?
And similar questions about the down.
The end-loading bay to go for ever? The bay to go, I read. All that clunky point-work? It's all very 50s, the north end of the station. What's the wedge of land thus made available to be used for? Something better than car-parking (wretched things) I hope.

 

[The Planner]

Platform 4 loop comes off the Up Main. The Up Goods and Platform 4 loop join together and join the up main at one connection.

 

[L&Y Robert]

Platform 4 loop comes off the Up Main. The Up Goods and Platform 4 loop join together and join the up main at one connection.

Yes, less pointwork on the Main of course. (we're struggling here, piecing together info so that MarkyT can do a nice layout plan).

 

[The Planner]

You would be better off doing the drawing and I can tell you what needs altering to be fair.

 

[MarkyT]

You would be better off doing the drawing and I can tell you what needs altering to be fair.

Agreed, I'm hoping to have time to do the drawing today so first version should be out late this evening or tomorrow morning for comments. A question regarding the stone terminal: these sidings kick back off the down goods loop which acts as a headshunt at its northern end. I note from the sectional appendix these connections are controlled from a ground frame. Will these facilities be brought under direct signaller control in the future? If the current down goods loop connection to the down main at the north end is to remain, and there is bi-di signalling on both lines that implies there is a new right hand facing main to main crossover beyond the north end of the loop. Will the down goods loop be signalled to passenger standards? (relevant to individual trapping of siding connections).

 

[L&Y Robert]

Never understood why the two stone terminal sidings were connected seperately to the down loop. I thought best practice would be for them to join together, THEN connect to the loop, with catch points as well.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

New 40mph crossover at Banbury North on the up to allow access to the newly bi-di Down Loop and Down Main.

So the stone train can run directly into the down loop, then. Engine at the wrong end, but it can run round on the main I suppose. Better than the present mucking about in the station though.

 

[didcot]

Im pretty sure in the days of Banbury Junction signal box the longer stone terminal siding was a loop line off the Down Goods. Always thought it would make unloading easier if it went back to being a loop.

 

[L&Y Robert]

Im pretty sure in the days of Banbury Junction signal box the longer stone terminal siding was a loop line off the Down Goods. Always thought it would make unloading easier if it went back to being a loop.

'The Planner' says "No"!

"There isn't going to be south end access to the stone depot". (Post 3 in "Banbury North (LaFarge Aggregates Depot) thread).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Up Goods connection at Banbury North increased from 15mph to 50mph with flashing yellows and made passenger rated. /QUOTE]

What do you have to do to a track to make it passenger rated? What do we passengers need that a goods train doesn't?

 

[WestCountry]

What do you have to do to a track to make it passenger rated? What do we passengers need that a goods train doesn't?

Facing point locks, proper signals rather than ground lights, higher maintenance standards.

 

[MarkyT]

V1 of Banbury sketch published for comments:

http://www.townend.me/files/banbury.pdf

One question remaining not clear from The Planner's comments: Is there a left-hand crossover at the south end as I have shown? - seems sensible for trains in Pl 1 & 2 to start back towards Oxford/Bicester.

 

[The Planner]

Not quite right, the Up Goods is separate to the Platform 4 line which is on a loop on its own off the Up Main, they both join together before they then join back to the Up Main.

Have taken another look at the signalling diagram. The Up Main to Down Main crossover is after the Stone Terminal connections so that train won't be able to run straight in. The loop points at Banbury North are pretty much parallel in real life too and don't move, yours are offset. The Down Loop to Down Main connection north of the platforms is before the Up to Down main crossover, so that either needs moving back or the other points moving after. The headshunt on the up south of the station goes too. Good punt though based on my description!!

Plaform 1 is 270m, 2 and 3 are 300m, the new 4 is only 133m with passive for 300m from what I can see.

 

[MarkyT]

Not quite right, the Up Goods is separate to the Platform 4 line which is on a loop on its own off the Up Main, they both join together before they then join back to the Up Main.

Have taken another look at the signalling diagram. The Up Main to Down Main crossover is after the Stone Terminal connections so that train won't be able to run straight in. The loop points at Banbury North are pretty much parallel in real life too and don't move, yours are offset. The Down Loop to Down Main connection north of the platforms is before the Up to Down main crossover, so that either needs moving back or the other points moving after. The headshunt on the up south of the station goes too. Good punt though based on my description!!

Plaform 1 is 270m, 2 and 3 are 300m, the new 4 is only 133m with passive for 300m from what I can see.

V2 is published here: http://www.townend.me/files/banbury.pdf

I haven't marked Junction names, because I'm not sure about extents. If the north end platform loop connections are 'Banbury North', then the goods loop turnouts and main crossover near the stone terminal can't be part of the same junction as they are about a mile away! ('Banbury Goods Junction' perhaps?). Similarly the new crossovers and depot departure line connection to the south are a fair distance from the station (a separate 'Banbury Depot Junction' perhaps?). I assumed the new short platform 4 will be at the north end of the station as the length from the steps to ramp at that end match up with your given figure and it should be easier to construct there whilst the existing terminal bay remains in use. Once that old platform track is removed then it should be a fairly easy job to build out from the existing face to extend 4 further if required in the future. I've assumed the speed on the Up Goods Loop changes from 55 to 25 at some point along its length, or the 55MPH run-in would be fairly pointless! I've added and named the removed facilities around the station as well in a 'ghostly grey'.

 

[L&Y Robert]

V2 is published here: http://www.townend.me/files/banbury.pdf

I haven't marked Junction names, because I'm not sure about extents. If the north end platform loop connections are 'Banbury North', then the goods loop turnouts and main crossover near the stone terminal can't be part of the same junction as they are about a mile away! ('Banbury Goods Junction' perhaps?). Similarly the new crossovers and depot departure line connection to the south are a fair distance from the station (a separate 'Banbury Depot Junction' perhaps?). I assumed the new short platform 4 will be at the north end of the station as the length from the steps to ramp at that end match up with your given figure and it should be easier to construct there whilst the existing terminal bay remains in use. Once that old platform track is removed then it should be a fairly easy job to build out from the existing face to extend 4 further if required in the future. I've assumed the speed on the Up Goods Loop changes from 55 to 25 at some point along its length, or the 55MPH run-in would be fairly pointless! I've added and named the removed facilities around the station as well in a 'ghostly grey'.

A few comments on your (very nice!) plan:

The north end of the 'Up' loop is, at the moment, pretty nearly opposite to the 'down' loop points. It is all on the site of the old "Banbury North Junction" - the old GC link-line to Woodford Halse. Could call it that, perhaps?

Immediately beyond the stop-block of the down loop the Oxford Canal passes under, pretty much at right-angles. The loop headshunt can't continue north unless the bridge is widened.

I understood from local sources that the new platform 4 will be the whole length of the station and gobble up both north and south facing bays. I never heard of it being "short".

Knowing the site fairly well, I assumed that the up loops would describe a fairly smooth arc, not the wiggly ends you have shown. Bridge Street crosses the railway between the station and Banb. North S.Bx., and the goods loop swings wide to clear the bridge support pier. I know it's a diagram, but addition of the bridge (and the canal) would enhance the graphics I thought.

I see, greyed out, the lines of existing tracks. Couple of queriesfor 'ThePlanner', maybe:

There was, and may yet be, a siding (or two?) parallel to the up loop north of the station - "Engineer's siding?" Are we keeping that?

There was an oil siding to the south-west of the station. Keeping it? (There are some storage tanks immediately west of the station). - I always assumed they were part of the same facility.

Very good to see it plotted out in this way - many thanks to MarkyT!

 

[BanburyBlue]

Does anyone know when we see some real action? Bricks in the ground and all that?

 

[The Planner]

V2 is published here: http://www.townend.me/files/banbury.pdf

I haven't marked Junction names, because I'm not sure about extents. If the north end platform loop connections are 'Banbury North', then the goods loop turnouts and main crossover near the stone terminal can't be part of the same junction as they are about a mile away! ('Banbury Goods Junction' perhaps?). Similarly the new crossovers and depot departure line connection to the south are a fair distance from the station (a separate 'Banbury Depot Junction' perhaps?). I assumed the new short platform 4 will be at the north end of the station as the length from the steps to ramp at that end match up with your given figure and it should be easier to construct there whilst the existing terminal bay remains in use. Once that old platform track is removed then it should be a fairly easy job to build out from the existing face to extend 4 further if required in the future. I've assumed the speed on the Up Goods Loop changes from 55 to 25 at some point along its length, or the 55MPH run-in would be fairly pointless! I've added and named the removed facilities around the station as well in a 'ghostly grey'.

Had another look at the diagram, Banbury North where the loops end as penned by me is actually going to be called "Reservoir Junction". "Banbury North" are the crossovers to the north of the station and the access to the P4 loop. Your position of P4 is correct. The loop exit/entrances directly to the south of the station are "Banbury South Jn". The crossovers and depot access further south aren't named. The Up Goods is 50 not 55 from Reservoir Junction for ½ mile until the 25 at around the 86¾ mile post. The depot access junctions are 15mph but the depot access line itself is 5mph.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I see, greyed out, the lines of existing tracks. Couple of queriesfor 'ThePlanner', maybe:

There was, and may yet be, a siding (or two?) parallel to the up loop north of the station - "Engineer's siding?" Are we keeping that?

There was an oil siding to the south-west of the station. Keeping it? (There are some storage tanks immediately west of the station). - I always assumed they were part of the same facility.

No, the engineers siding as you name it is where the Up Goods gets slewed over to so the P4 loop can go in. The Up Goods is going to run on what is now called the middle road. P4 is on the current Up Goods. Not sure where you mean for the Oil Siding but nothing is retained on that side.