Bad information by Virgin ticket office.

[bnm]

You really are being pedantic, I am sure you understood what I meant.
How else would you describe the ticket ?

A Wolverhampton to Cheltenham Advance Single.

 

[CliveJones]

At no point in my original post did I mention having Wolverhampton to Birmingham tickets.
I will reiterate, the issue concerns the Wolverhampton to Cheltenham return portion of an advance ticket which they were advised could be used on a later train by Virgin staff at Wolverhampton.

Ultimately. They don't really have any comeback on this. Whether they showed the ticket or not is unimportant because there is going to be no way to prove it unless the clerk remembered and admitted it. At a busy office they probably wont remember. Frankly I would not be supprised if the customer services dept even bothered to ask.

However, it doesn't cost anything to try. So they could send it off and get a 99.9% chance of a free "NO U" letter.

A Wolverhampton to Cheltenham Advance Single.

Yes. As long as we are dealing with what's important here eh?

 

[bnm]

Yes. As long as we are dealing with what's important here eh?

:roll:

I, and others, got confused as to what the OP was actually asking. Merely seeking, and attempting to establish clarity for the benefit of others.

 

[Ticket Man]

squabbles aside, I'd say 99.9% of my colleagues and myself could tell you if the ticket was 300 yards away that its only valid on the booked train only.
There are only two types of ticket that you print out at home. Mega train and E-Ticket, both of which are restricted to booked train.
Plus if you pulled out a phone your either going to show me a reference for tickets you haven't collected or a mobitix which would still not be valid.

I'd really like to get my hands on "that guy" who tells so many people that there tickets are valid when they're not.
Its a real shame for people who have been genuinely misinformed because this excuse is usually the first line of defence for people with ticket issues and is used far far more than could possibly be true

 

[taxidave]

:roll:

I, and others, got confused as to what the OP was actually asking. Merely seeking, and attempting to establish clarity for the benefit of others.

I really don't see what there was to be confused about in my opening post.

Three of my friends were returning from Crewe last Saturday, on my advice they had split their tickets at Wolverhampton, hence advance XC Cheltenham to Wolverhampton and return, then groupsave3 Wolverhampton to Crewe LM only.
This was ok until they arrived back at Wolverhampton on the return journey where, having watched Cheltenham lose 8-1, they decided they needed a few drinks and so asked at the ticket office if their tickets were valid on a later train than that shown on their tickets and were told by the clerk in the office that this would be ok.

Perhaps you would be good enough to explain where the confusion arose so that I do not replicate it in any future posts.

 

[AlterEgo]

There are only two types of ticket that you print out at home. Mega train and E-Ticket, both of which are restricted to booked train.

You can purchase certain flexible tickets as E-tickets. A Saver Half Return, for one.

Just because something's an e-ticket doesn't mean it's an Advance...although 98% of the time, they are!

 

[bnm]

I really don't see what there was to be confused about in my opening post.

Perhaps you would be good enough to explain where the confusion arose so that I do not replicate it in any future posts.

Firstly, the first few responses concentrated on the GroupSave 3 tickets, which weren't relevant to your query. So some confusion there.

Secondly, it was only in a subsequent post that you mentioned the tickets from/to Cheltenham were e-tickets.

Then, you said they were advance returns. Now, I'm not a mind reader, so I don't know for definite whether we are talking about an Advance Purchase printed on normal stock, an e-ticket printed at home or a walk-up return purchased in advance of the date of travel.

Finally, when I seek clarification I get called a pedant. Fine,. You're prerogative. But it's important to remember that we are hearing about an incident 2nd hand - not you that had the issue but friends of yours. Very easy for detail to be lost in translation.

As to the issue raised, then if these e-tickets were indeed shown to staff in a ticket office, then I find it almost impossible to believe they would say they were valid for travel on a service other than that printed on the ticket.

Now... mistakenly showing the GroupSave 3 tickets and asking if they could be used on a later train.... that I can believe would have got an answer in the affirmative.

 

[Greenback]

The original post was pretty clear to me. What muddied the waters was First Class talking about Groupsave.

The suggestion of showing the Wolverhampton to Crewe tickets in error had not croseed my mind! It would explain why they appeared to have been given incorrect advice.

 

[taxidave]

Finally, when I seek clarification I get called a pedant. Fine,. You're prerogative.

Not my prerogative but your very own words

Dr. bnm. PhD FARTS. Resident pedant.

 

[junglejames]

Firstly, the first few responses concentrated on the GroupSave 3 tickets, which weren't relevant to your query. So some confusion there.

Secondly, it was only in a subsequent post that you mentioned the tickets from/to Cheltenham were e-tickets.

Then, you said they were advance returns. Now, I'm not a mind reader, so I don't know for definite whether we are talking about an Advance Purchase printed on normal stock, an e-ticket printed at home or a walk-up return purchased in advance of the date of travel.

Finally, when I seek clarification I get called a pedant. Fine,. You're prerogative. But it's important to remember that we are hearing about an incident 2nd hand - not you that had the issue but friends of yours. Very easy for detail to be lost in translation.

As to the issue raised, then if these e-tickets were indeed shown to staff in a ticket office, then I find it almost impossible to believe they would say they were valid for travel on a service other than that printed on the ticket.

Now... mistakenly showing the GroupSave 3 tickets and asking if they could be used on a later train.... that I can believe would have got an answer in the affirmative.

It was as clear as day what he was saying in the original post.
Only those that read the post in a hurry, or not fully, mistook what he was saying.
As for subsequent posts, they didnt make any difference. The e ticket made no difference. It was still an advance ticket, explained right at the beginning.
When he said Advance returns, it was plainly obvious he meant 2 advance singles, as this had already been highlighted that they were advance tickets. What they are printed on made no difference.

Admittedly though, i do not believe that they showed the tickets to the ticket clerk. Otherwise they would have been given the correct info.

 

[yorkie]

taxidave did mention things that were not relevant, I agree this did cause confusion but I also agree that, if you read the post really carefully it was possible (with some basic knowledge) to work out what he meant. The only relevant ticket is the Advance Single from Wolverhampton to Cheltenham. Sometimes mentioning a combination of tickets can be useful, where they are used for one journey, but that does not apply in this case.

I struggle to believe the advice that is claimed was given, but if they really insist that it was given, I can only suggest that they spoke to an extremely unknowledgeable member of staff and a letter could be written to Virgin about that.

 

[Minilad]

I used to work in the Booking Office at Longbridge on the Cross City Line in Birmingham.
Most of the time it was just returns to Birmingham but we did also sell quite a lot of advanced tickets (Virgin Values and Apex at that time)
Many times I would be asked for tickets of this type and given times they wanted. When I would tell them that no tickets were available for those times it was amazing how many times people would just say oh give me any train then and I will have a word with the guard on the original train. Seems people were quite happy to have the cheap tickets but not want the restrictions.
I bet a lot of these would have then gone to the guard and said "oh but the guy at the station said I could use them on this train"
Eventually we got hold of a stamp which said "restrictions advised" which we used on AP tickets. No chance of them trying it on then

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I'd really like to get my hands on "that guy" who tells so many people that there tickets are valid when they're not.

He gets around a bit, too, apparently!

But I can confirm that these "you'll be fine with that ticket" staff do exist!

Sometime last year I collected a large number of pre-paid tickets from the TVM and was sure something wasn't right, though I was struggling to work out if one voucher was maybe covering 2 legs of my journey or if there was some other simple explanation, so, rather than leave with the dubious tickets, I joined the end of the queue for a ticket window so that I could have the tickets checked.
While I was waiting, another member of ticket staff came along to relieve the queue by asking if anyone waiting was just wanting information, so I presented my tickets and asked my questions. I was told "they'll be all right" and "if that's what the machine printed, then it will be correct".
I went home, but was still in doubt. So, the next day I phoned Customer Services to check further and was first told: "you should have checked them before leaving the station". Which is exactly what I HAD done! - and been told the tickets were correct!

Anyway, there WAS an error and after a bit of "there's nothng wrong at our end" and "we can't help you at this stage", I eventually had them corrected, but it wasn't helped by the ticket assistant in the station telling me "they'll be all right" when they were not.

I can imagine what the outcome would have been if they were for immediate travel.

 

[jon0844]

Staff who are not trained, and have no need to be trained, should be told NOT to give advice and direct people to someone who is.

This might annoy some customers who wonder why someone in a uniform doesn't know, or can't answer their questions, but it would cause a lot less problems.

This will also stop people being able to deliberately seek out someone who isn't likely to know, just to get the answer they want to hear (quite possibly by asking a question in a certain way). I could just as easily ask someone wearing a FCC Initial uniform when they're emptying the bins!

 

[Ticket Man]

He gets around a bit, too, apparently!

But I can confirm that these "you'll be fine with that ticket" staff do exist!

Sometime last year I collected a large number of pre-paid tickets from the TVM and was sure something wasn't right, though I was struggling to work out if one voucher was maybe covering 2 legs of my journey or if there was some other simple explanation, so, rather than leave with the dubious tickets, I joined the end of the queue for a ticket window so that I could have the tickets checked.
While I was waiting, another member of ticket staff came along to relieve the queue by asking if anyone waiting was just wanting information, so I presented my tickets and asked my questions. I was told "they'll be all right" and "if that's what the machine printed, then it will be correct".
I went home, but was still in doubt. So, the next day I phoned Customer Services to check further and was first told: "you should have checked them before leaving the station". Which is exactly what I HAD done! - and been told the tickets were correct!

Anyway, there WAS an error and after a bit of "there's nothng wrong at our end" and "we can't help you at this stage", I eventually had them corrected, but it wasn't helped by the ticket assistant in the station telling me "they'll be all right" when they were not.

I can imagine what the outcome would have been if they were for immediate travel.

Thankfully then your situation was resolved. And hats off to the cust service team if you had your situation resolved with-out charge. Sifting the genuine from the chancer's is no easy feat.

 

[yorkie]

He gets around a bit, too, apparently!

Indeed.

I was at East Croydon the other day, a passenger asked how to get to Guildford. The staff member said "you need to change at Clapham Junction" I have checked the fares, and - surprise supririse - the cheapest fare is routed "NOT Clapham Junction", no attempt was made to determine the ticket held. The customer could potentially have been asked for an excess fare of about £1.30*, OK only a small amount, but that's beside the point, and that team of people on SWT who are famous for their lack of customer service skills may find some excuse to treat the customer more harshly, as we have seen evidence that they don't particularly like issuing change of route excess fares in the correct manner (and neither do some Euston barrier staff, either. Still waiting to receive Virgin's response to that).

If I'd had time (I didn't; my train was pulling in) I may have asked the customer if he'd let me see his ticket, and if it said "Not Clapham Junction" I may have asked the staff member why he was encouraging a customer to use a ticket that was not valid and would incur an excess fare.

* Assuming a non-discounted CDR.

 

[Ticket Man]

Indeed.

I was at East Croydon the other day, a passenger asked how to get to Guildford. The staff member said "you need to change at Clapham Junction" I have checked the fares, and - surprise supririse - the cheapest fare is routed "NOT Clapham Junction", no attempt was made to determine the ticket held. The customer could potentially have been asked for an excess fare of about £1.30*, OK only a small amount, but that's beside the point, and that team of people on SWT who are famous for their lack of customer service skills may find some excuse to treat the customer more harshly, as we have seen evidence that they don't particularly like issuing change of route excess fares in the correct manner (and neither do some Euston barrier staff, either. Still waiting to receive Virgin's response to that).

If I'd had time (I didn't; my train was pulling in) I may have asked the customer if he'd let me see his ticket, and if it said "Not Clapham Junction" I may have asked the staff member why he was encouraging a customer to use a ticket that was not valid and would incur an excess fare.

* Assuming a non-discounted CDR.

I think that's a bit naughty yorkie (on more than one front).

Was the customer not rightly informed?

If a customer asks me how to get somewhere, they're not asking what restrictions they have on their journey and I'm pretty sure 9 out of 10 customers would start getting shirty with me if I did start quoting them

That example seems to be a twisted take on a simple question/answer situation.

 

[Greenback]

It's not easy to interact with customers! Ticket Man is correct that one person may simply want a quick answer and be in possession of season or othe rticke tthat allows travel by a number of routes. They may well be irritated if what to them seems a simple question provokes an interrogation as to what ticket they hold.

On the other hand, another person may actually mean something quite different to the question being asked - they may actually want to get somewhere other than Guildford like Clandon or Dorking. In those cases, qithout questioning the person you aren't likely to find out!

With experience, it gets easier to tell what type of customer you are talking to. But it is not an exact science, and it is often simpler to just answer the question that has been asked. After all, the customer can always ask a follow up question if they think they need to.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Indeed. One instance I recall was at Huddersfield. Just as I was about to close the doors a passenger came running up to the door nearest me, stopped, looked around, saw me and shouted "Leeds?" pointing at the train. "Yes" I responded, they got on, and we went on our way. Only when I went down to check tickets did I find they didn't want Leeds, they wanted Dewsbury. They wanted the train which terminated at Leeds - ie the Leeds train, and not a train which went via Leeds. They seemed most aggrieved by the fact we weren't stopping at Dewsbury, but as I pointed out, if they had asked "Dewsbury?" then I would have given them a more accurate answer.

I had a conversation with a passenger once who was trying to use a Leeds - Preston Rte Burnley ticket via Manchester. They had just missed the direct train which their ticket was valid for, and went and asked a member of staff "when's the next train to Preston?". The correct answer to that question was provided - catch the Liverpool train and change at Manchester Piccadilly. I then pointed out their ticket wasn't valid and got the "well the bloke on the station said..." tale. After further conversation it transpired they hadn't actually shown their ticket or anything. If the question asked of staff was "when is the next train to Preston with this ticket?" or similar, then I am sure a more accurate answer would have been forthcoming.

Only today, when presented with an Advance ticket on the wrong train did I have a conversation very similar to this-
"I am sorry, that ticket is not valid on this train" But the bloke on the station said I could catch this train to Manchester. "Well you can, but not with that ticket". Well, he never said that. He told me I could catch this train. "Did you show him your ticket?". No. "Well there you are then. This is a reduced price Advance ticket valid on specific trains only". I know that, but the bloke on the station said I could catch this train to Manchester". Well without seeing your ticket he wouldn't have known you had an Advance ticket for a train 30 minutes ago. Had he done so I'm sure he would have advised you more accurately. I'm sorry, but the ticket isn't valid, it'll be £xx please. "Well I want your name because... ..." (Cue long rant about customer service, discretion, the bloke on the station etc etc).

All these go to show how difficult it is to give the entirely correct answer. If you ask a question you get an answer. If not don't ask the right question you don't get the right answer. Greenback is right. It's tricky, but you really haven't got the time to check everyone's ticket everytime someone asks a question. Besides, lots of people would get irritated if you asked to see their ticket when all they wanted to know was the next train to X.

 

[Greenback]

I'm pretty sure that someone who has never worked on the railway would be amazed at the abuse staff have to put up with. I remember when I was walking across Reading station concourse on my to start my late shift. I had a leather jacket on, which covered my FGW uniform except for my tie, yet this gentlemn still managed to spot that Iw as an employee. He approached me, asking loudly which platform for London. I started to explain that fast trains to Paddington normally went from 5 or 8, and that there was an indicator at the top to stairs showing the next fast service, or that there were slow trains to Waterloo from 4A or 4B, but he cut me off shouting 'Just tell me the bloody platform' so I told him to go to 5.

I never found out whether he wanted Paddington, or somewhere else in London entirely. As for tickets he may not have had one at all! If I had asked him about that he may well have had a stroke!

I'm not complaining - as an employee I was happy to answer any questions, even when people were shouting in my face, but if that chap had complained about the answer he was given afterwards then it would have been extracting the urine.

 

[taxidave]

Just bumping this thread back up to inform you that my friends received travel vouchers to the value of £50 from Virgin Trains for "being supplied with incorrect information". These vouchers more than cover the excess fares they were charged by XC.

 

[Ticket Man]

Just bumping this thread back up to inform you that my friends received travel vouchers to the value of £50 from Virgin Trains for "being supplied with incorrect information". These vouchers more than cover the excess fares they were charged by XC.

Glad to hear all was resolved well