Azuma seating

[class26]

I haves standard, full journey, no issues.

Seating is subjective (if that's the word)

I suppose your shape then must be the one unique human that fits the IET Azuma seat, just as a stopped clock is still right twice a day !

 

[800001]

I suppose your shape then must be the one unique human that fits the IET Azuma seat, just as a stopped clock is still right twice a day !

Along with the other thousands of people every day who sit on the seats and don't complain and fit perfectly fine!

 

[Phatcontroller]

To be fair to Hitachi, the seats were neither made nor chosen by them, but were specified and chosen by the DfT. I think I've seen it suggested previously that Hitachi themselves weren't keen on the choice made. However, if the maintenance of the trains is their responsibility, they ought by now to be replacing seat bases on GWR trains much sooner than they have been.

Two trips on GWR 800s last week showed this. One seat was fine - hard as they've always been, but quite adequate. The other was most uncomfortable - even on a relatively short trip, I was constantly shifting around trying to ease the discomfort of sitting on basically a metal bar. Unfortunately that train was too busy to make moving an option. It is poor when the same company's 30 year old suburban Turbos are markedly more comfortable than their flagship long distance fleet.

Again to be fair to Hitachi, the standard seats they fitted to the Kentish high speeds are far far superior to the Sophia design and have lasted really well. They have only just had a re-foam.

 

[danbarjon]

Along with the other thousands of people every day who sit on the seats and don't complain and fit perfectly fine!

I agree, I often think people really like to complain. I’ve sat on all 80x trains and never had any issues with any seats, only issue I’ve ever had was a seat stain on TPE which was rectified as they moved me. I personally think people should find new hobbies instead of banging on about seats especially when you can’t go back in time and change how much the government specified for the interiors of the IEPs and Azumas.

 

[35B]

I swear that readers of this forum have more sensitive posteriors than the rest of the population. I travel frequently on LNER and find the seats totally fine.

That will be why my wife detests travelling to London on them, and finds her back suffering badly, then?

There are two separate issues here. The first is that the seats, as built, are very firm and a very precise profile. That either suits or does not suit - and majority opinion tends towards “ironing board”.

The second is that the seat bases are not standing up to sustained use over the long term. While they don’t look too bad, it’s increasingly probable to find the leg support provided by a metal bar, and not the cushion. Previously, I’ve only once encountered that, which was on an EMR Meridian that was desperately overdue for a full interior refit.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Nov 2025 ==

I agree, I often think people really like to complain. I’ve sat on all 80x trains and never had any issues with any seats, only issue I’ve ever had was a seat stain on TPE which was rectified as they moved me. I personally think people should find new hobbies instead of banging on about seats especially when you can’t go back in time and change how much the government specified for the interiors of the IEPs and Azumas.

Good for you; you’re using the youngest fleet which haven’t yet hit the same wear and tear.

It may not change anything, but the idea that this voids discussion of the failings of this abysmal procurement exercise is for the birds.

 

[Ant1966]

Along with the other thousands of people every day who sit on the seats and don't complain and fit perfectly fine!

Most people dont complain about things like seat comfort.
Ultimately seat comfort is entirely personal and subjective, and we are all sample sizes of one.

However the ratio of comments on here between 'they are fine' and 'they are horrible' gives a fairly strong indication that something is amiss.
I guess the only way to be sure would be some sort or properly run scientific survey of passengers, but its in no TOCs interest to carry out or allow such a thing. (Maybe a nice project for one of our student forumites, anyone doing a masters in Sociology or Business?)
My own view, which I have shared many times, is that these seats are woeful and an embarassment to the UK rail industry. The comparison with seats available in alternative means of transport in the UK (Air, Coach, private car) or to premium route intercity seats in Mainland Europe is particularly stark, and puts us to shame.

Strip out the lot of them and burn them I say. Shame we've just missed Bonfire night.

 

[danbarjon]

“Good for you; you’re using the youngest fleet which haven’t yet hit the same wear and tear.

It may not change anything, but the idea that this voids discussion of the failings of this abysmal procurement exercise is for the birds.

Like stated in my post, I have travelled on all 80x. I may also add that even a family member with back problems doesn’t notice any uncomfortable feelings on LNER standard seats, I personally believe this is all a bit blown up to be more serious than it is…

 

[Ant1966]

I agree, I often think people really like to complain. I’ve sat on all 80x trains and never had any issues with any seats, only issue I’ve ever had was a seat stain on TPE which was rectified as they moved me. I personally think people should find new hobbies instead of banging on about seats especially when you can’t go back in time and change how much the government specified for the interiors of the IEPs and Azumas.

If you think this forum is full of people complaining; have you seen the rest of the Internet?

In general I find this forum to be an island of balance and sanity in a sea of increasingly vitriolic nonsense. (however i do see your point of view, in that a large amount of complaining about a subject where you think think things are fine could annoy after a while. Maybe ignore these threads?)
I agree that you cant go back in time and change mistakes that were made. However you can learn from them, and you can rectify them.

 

[kermit]

Along with the other thousands of people every day who sit on the seats and don't complain and fit perfectly fine!

Even if there are only "dozens" of complaints, that is dozens more than ever complained about Mk3 seats, as far as I can recall. Which means there is, indeed, a problem.

 

[danbarjon]

If you think this forum is full of people complaining; have you seen the rest of the Internet?

In general I find this forum to be an island of balance and sanity in a sea of increasingly vitriolic nonsense. (however i do see your point of view, in that a large amount of complaining about a subject where you think think things are fine could annoy after a while. Maybe ignore these threads?)
I agree that you cant go back in time and change mistakes that were made. However you can learn from them, and you can rectify them.

I agree with you, and one thing I appreciate about this forum is the open discussion available. I know fine well people may not agree with me but I am happy with that. On the point I agree with you, they definitely should learn as I am fully aware they used regional seats for an intercity train but in my opinion we could have ended up with worse. My point is mainly just that until we have firm plans for a refurbishment/refresh we are going to have to live with it, for some that will be hard but for some it won’t matter…

 

[35B]

If you think this forum is full of people complaining; have you seen the rest of the Internet?

In general I find this forum to be an island of balance and sanity in a sea of increasingly vitriolic nonsense. (however i do see your point of view, in that a large amount of complaining about a subject where you think think things are fine could annoy after a while. Maybe ignore these threads?)
I agree that you cant go back in time and change mistakes that were made. However you can learn from them, and you can rectify them.

Noted. We will need to disagree, especially about the tolerance for truly awful procurement choices.

 

[Ant1966]

I agree with you, and one thing I appreciate about this forum is the open discussion available. I know fine well people may not agree with me but I am happy with that. On the point I agree with you, they definitely should learn as I am fully aware they used regional seats for an intercity train but in my opinion we could have ended up with worse. My point is mainly just that until we have firm plans for a refurbishment/refresh we are going to have to live with it, for some that will be hard but for some it won’t matter…

Thanks Danbarjon, appreciate the reply. We are certainly going to have to live with it! And it definitely splits opinion, thats 100% for sure!
Agreeing to disagree on some subjects, whilst remaining polite and civilised, is what this forum is all about. Long may it continue, gives me some hope for humanity. Have a great weekend

 

[danbarjon]

Thanks Danbarjon, appreciate the reply. We are certainly going to have to live with it! And it definitely splits opinion, thats 100% for sure!
Agreeing to disagree on some subjects, whilst remaining polite and civilised, is what this forum is all about. Long may it continue, gives me some hope for humanity. Have a great weekend

You have a good weekend too! People may never agree with each other but as long as we show respect that’s all that matters.

 

[Mikey C]

The seat is a bare minimum level of comfort, but it's the lack of durability which is the biggest issue. So many GWR journeys where you're sitting on a bar.

For the seats cushions to wear so quickly shows they're not fit for purpose.

 

[D1537]

I commute to work 2-3 days a week on LNER trains (usually an 801/2 to work and an 800/2 back) and use them for longer distance journeys as well (I did Northallerton to Kings Cross and back yesterday). Whilst they're not the most brilliant seats ever, I've never actually felt actively uncomfortable on them.

 

[BRX]

I guess we can conclude that for some people, sitting on a metal bar is not uncomfortable.

 

[800001]

I guess we can conclude that for some people, sitting on a metal bar is not uncomfortable.

Because many have not felt a metal bar.......I haven't and I travel on them 5 days a week.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Totally fine? On the Azumas? You somehow don't feel the metal bar? Unless some sort of fix has actually been applied...

It hasn't, but it is possible that particularly light people don't compress the cushion enough to feel it.

 

[trebor79]

I guess we can conclude that for some people, sitting on a metal bar is not uncomfortable.

I find it's ok for a while a d then I be one aware of the bar and then it's just uncomfortable.
Kings Cross to Lincoln and I became aware of the bar somewhere around Peterborough.
Really bad. Don't get me started on the ridiculously tiny buffet with very small selection either.

 

[185143]

It hasn't, but it is possible that particularly light people don't compress the cushion enough to feel it.

I'm certainly not light, but have felt the metal bar on only a few occasions.

Travelled Aberdeen-London-Penzance in Standard on 800s a couple of years back, absolutely no issues at all.

 

[mmh]

Even if there are only "dozens" of complaints, that is dozens more than ever complained about Mk3 seats, as far as I can recall. Which means there is, indeed, a problem.

Really? There used to be loads of posts on here about the IC70 seat (the ones with the big fixed armrests) and few people were positive about them.

 

[Yorkshire09876]

Really? There used to be loads of posts on here about the IC70 seat (the ones with the big fixed armrests) and few people were positive about them.

Many are positive about them, and in any case they had gone from most fleets many years before HST withdrawal. It was only EMT AND GC sets, plus a couple of LNER sets, which still had them. The FGW fleet (which comprised about half the total HST fleet) had Grammar seats, and LNER / XC had Primarius.

 

[Wolfie]

Many are positive about them, and in any case they had gone from most fleets many years before HST withdrawal. It was only EMT AND GC sets, plus a couple of LNER sets, which still had them. The FGW fleet (which comprised about half the total HST fleet) had Grammar seats, and LNER / XC had Primarius.

What about Chiltern?

 

[Yorkshire09876]

What about Chiltern?

They still mostly have them, except for the ex-first class carriage and the priority seats at the ends of all the others.

But only 4 sets in total, so hardly a significant fleet.

 

[jon0844]

Even if there are only "dozens" of complaints, that is dozens more than ever complained about Mk3 seats, as far as I can recall. Which means there is, indeed, a problem.

It's a lot easier to complain now and you can do it in public.

Now if you mean the number of complaints sent to a train operator then that's one thing, but I strongly suspect most people complain on social media and never complain directly.

 

[Wolfie]

They still mostly have them, except for the ex-first class carriage and the priority seats at the ends of all the others.

But only 4 sets in total, so hardly a significant fleet.

They were also, l believe, in the 442s prior to the abortive refurbishment.

 

[Yorkshire09876]

They were also, l believe, in the 442s prior to the abortive refurbishment.

Don't think so - they had Chapman seats so far as I recall.

Some of the 317s had IC70s in the first class section. Those are the only ones I know of apart from HST and LHCS Mk3s.

 

[Ant1966]

It hasn't, but it is possible that particularly light people don't compress the cushion enough to feel it.

What are you suggesting about forum members?
you might be on to something though. Weight, and/or age, could play a factor?
(I'm slightly overweight, and also have scoliosis, so am well aware that I'm not 'typical', if anyone really is!)
I wonder if we shoudl have a quick poll:
How do you find IET seats?
What is your age/weight?

Perhaps split between:
As new
and
As they are now
to try and separate those 2 issues

Only half joking.

 

[takno]

How the larger population feel about the seats, and how this affects their travel decisions seems to be a largely unstudied subject, and I don't think it's fair to make assumptions either way. You might however draw some conclusions about the passenger experience from the fact that all operators switched to better seats for new fleets, and largely did so before the bases even started collapsing.

The problem for me is not the amount of cushioning, awful as that is. It's the extreme uprightness of the back, combined with the complete flatness of the base. I can't sit fully in the seat without my back getting into quite serious trouble, but as a result I'm constantly bracing myself to prevent sliding too far forward. The effect is worse of course on the cloth-covered ones, but none of them are really safe for me to travel over 2 hours on.

If anything the collapsed bases slightly improve the experience for me, since they provide a bit of a bucket effect which keeps me in the seat without having to brace my legs.

I generally haven't complained a lot, I've just quietly changed most of my domestic travel to avoid them. On east coast I kept getting 225s for as long as I could, then switched to flying or travelling first (not great seats, but adequate), and finally to travelling with Lumo. Travelling to the south-west I mostly go on SWR, and have started getting the coach sometimes.

It's a pity, but frankly it's probably had less impact on my life than the utter collapse in service on XC.

 

[Yorkshire09876]

How the larger population feel about the seats, and how this affects their travel decisions seems to be a largely unstudied subject,

And so it will probably remain! Train operators / the DfT aren't going to ask that type of question or do any surveys if there is a probability (or even strong possibility) that the answer won't be the one they want!