Azuma seating

[dk1]

Having experienced the metal bar twice yesterday on thankfully relatively short GWR journeys, what I don't understand is how a seat cushion can collapse so quickly.

Surely seats are designed to last much longer than that, especially a seat designed more for commuter trains. I don't recall any Electrostar/Desiro seats deteriorating so quickly, for example.

The original class 156 seating was awful with many collapsing in a similar way.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Getting reports from several friends that a number of lner units now also suffering quite extensive metal bar issues,

 

[RuddA]

The original class 156 seating was awful with many collapsing in a similar way.

Probably the worst train seat I have experienced when broken, like a crater.
Haven't experienced a problem whilst sitting on an Azuma seat, but one did rotate 45 degrees when I twisted out of the seat.

 

[irish_rail]

I hate to say this, but in the past few weeks I haven't managed to sit on a single GWR IET seat where I haven't been sat on the metal bar (in excess of 10 passenger journeys). I presume they've given up trying to replace / repair the cushions. It seems the attitude is that lesson's have been learned and the same mistake won't be made with Avanti or EMR sets, but the existing fleets can just go to Hell. It really is mighty uncomfortable too. It just isn't good enough on journeys of several hours.

 

[Mikey C]

I hate to say this, but in the past few weeks I haven't managed to sit on a single GWR IET seat where I haven't been sat on the metal bar (in excess of 10 passenger journeys). I presume they've given up trying to replace / repair the cushions. It seems the attitude is that lesson's have been learned and the same mistake won't be made with Avanti or EMR sets, but the existing fleets can just go to Hell. It really is mighty uncomfortable too. It just isn't good enough on journeys of several hours.

I'd be surprised if they had even been doing this. This isn't like an obvious breakage, where it gets reported and fixed, this is all the seating prematurely wearing out and needing replacing.

 

[physics34]

I would imagine that it will for the new CAF stock. It would cost a fortune to replace all the seating in the existing Azuma fleet.

I think if its expected to last 30 years, it would actually be a reasonable expense to replace the seating in the Azuma fleet, it would be worth it.

Of course, they could just replace the cushions.

 

[Haywain]

is the changing of the leather headrest in first class.

Based on my journeys last week, on 3 different trains, they have been completely removed.

 

[800001]

Based on my journeys last week, on 3 different trains, they have been completely removed.

Yes removed from all sets. Awaiting the new ones

 

[Bletchleyite]

Getting reports from several friends that a number of lner units now also suffering quite extensive metal bar issues,

I've now experienced it on TPE on several units too.

 

[danbarjon]

Yes removed from all sets. Awaiting the new ones

Does anyone have any idea what the new ones look like and when we can see them from?

 

[py_megapixel]

Is the different seating design in the Lumo and Avanti sets holding up any better? If so, the obvious way to solve the issue once and for all would just be to order a few thousand of those and have an ongoing programme of replacing them.

Would be costly, of course, but a much better solution than leaving them broken, and presumably cheaper than having to repeatedly replace the cushions every couple of years over the life of the fleet.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is the different seating design in the Lumo and Avanti sets holding up any better?

Yes. It is a totally different design (different frame) and has no such bar.

Even the TfW version seems to have a different base cushion that lacks the bar - I have pushed down quite hard in its usual location with my hand and been unable to find it.

 

[Blindtraveler]

The lumo sets get hammered on a daily basis with full occupancy on probably about 97% of the runs and I haven't noticed any seating problems

 

[thomalex]

Currently on an Azuma and had to move seat the first one was so bad, it was fully collapsed with the metal bar right where your pelvis is. Absolutely horrible. This one is slightly better but can still feel where the bar is.

Surely there must be some pressure now to find a solution as these seats clearly aren’t fit for purpose, and are only going to get worse.

 

[Class 800]

Currently on an Azuma and had to move seat the first one was so bad, it was fully collapsed with the metal bar right where your pelvis is. Absolutely horrible. This one is slightly better but can still feel where the bar is.

Surely there must be some pressure now to find a solution as these seats clearly aren’t fit for purpose, and are only going to get worse.

I think unless folks start voting with their feet things won’t change.

 

[irish_rail]

I think unless folks start voting with their feet things won’t change.

Indeed. The seats have been like this on GWR for 2 or 3 years now, and they only continue to deteriorate. People just seem to grudgingly accept their fate, I think we have all got a bit used to it of late.

 

[blackfive460]

Seats in Transpennine's 802s, which were uncomfortable enough when brand new are now suffering from the metal bar problem. I tried three seats before I found one that wasn't really bad but still ended up aching when I got off the damn thing after just a 50 minute journey.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Given that this is now a universal wide fleet problem across all or most of the units thus far built, is it not time that Hitachi took some kind of responsibility or have they washed their hands of it? Given that the DFT changed the specified seat to one that was much cheaper and therefore better in their view

 

[Haywain]

Given that this is now a universal wide fleet problem across all or most of the units thus far built, is it not time that Hitachi took some kind of responsibility or have they washed their hands of it? Given that the DFT changed the specified seat to one that was much cheaper and therefore better in their view

i think Agility Trains, the successor to Hitachi in ownership of the fleet, will reasonably argue that they have supplied what DfT specified and that they will be happy to negotiate the replacement of the seats with something else. That would, of course, come at a cost.

 

[Bletchleyite]

i think Agility Trains, the successor to Hitachi in ownership of the fleet, will reasonably argue that they have supplied what DfT specified and that they will be happy to negotiate the replacement of the seats with something else. That would, of course, come at a cost.

One does wonder if Fainsa could be taken to task for selling an unfit-for-purpose design and thus being in breach of contract?

 

[py_megapixel]

One does wonder if Fainsa could be taken to task for selling an unfit-for-purpose design and thus being in breach of contract?

Would that not run into the issue that the seat design was never intended for this application in the first place? Though I suppose the cushions collapsing would still have been an issue had the seats been used for regional service, as intended.

The government of the time specified a product that was not suitable for the application, and unfortunately I suspect it will be the government of now that had to reap what has been sown.

 

[Babybirdrobin]

Currently in First Class on an LNER 800, can’t feel the metal bar in my seat although still not particularly comfortable in my opinion just as I find them quite hard although I understand some people like that

 

[Bletchleyite]

Would that not run into the issue that the seat design was never intended for this application in the first place?

It wasn't but...

Though I suppose the cushions collapsing would still have been an issue had the seats been used for regional service, as intended.

This. The seat isn't suitable for any application other than one where people don't sit on it!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Aug 2024 ==

Currently in First Class on an LNER 800, can’t feel the metal bar in my seat although still not particularly comfortable in my opinion just as I find them quite hard although I understand some people like that

The First Class seats are totally different and, while not the best, don't suffer the metal bar issue.

 

[ScottGallagher]

What was the proposed seat from Hitachi that was denied by DFT?

 

[dk1]

What was the proposed seat from Hitachi that was denied by DFT?

Anything that costed more I would imagine. They’re obsessed with price for some reason. You only get what you pay for in life I find personally.

 

[Mikey C]

As the government has changed, the current government do have the opportunity to announce a seat replacement programme, while blaming the "last lot" for the extra expense.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Maybe it's time to lobby the transport secretary, they are probably plenty of things in connection with these trains that could reasonably now be renegotiated or similar

 

[Towers]

As the government has changed, the current government do have the opportunity to announce a seat replacement programme, while blaming the "last lot" for the extra expense.

Worth remembering that many of the sets from various fleets are due to spend a long time being stripped down and welded to provide a fix for the ‘cracking’ issue, so there is presumably a timescale opportunity without taking them out of service again. Nevertheless, I can’t see it happening somehow. It’s money that the industry just doesn’t have.

 

[Bletchleyite]

All they need to do is replace the base cushion. TfW's otherwise identical seats don't have the problem - the bar just isn't there however hard you push down looking for it.

It's going to have to be done at some point, there's barely anything left to sit on in some of the older sets. They just have to make sure they don't specify the same base cushion as the replacement.

 

[JonathanH]

As the government has changed, the current government do have the opportunity to announce a seat replacement programme, while blaming the "last lot" for the extra expense.

All very well that there is a different government in charge, but where do you suggest the money comes from at a time when there are far more important things to spend money on and many things to blame the 'last lot' for.