Aviation Discussion

[ian959]

They've gone 9-abreast in economy. Nothing premium about that, it's greedy airlines with a seat that is totally unsuitable for long-haul, let alone short-haul (the A320 narrow-aisle configuration chosen by most airlines has wider seats).

If you are talking about the Qantas 787-9s, you are ignoring the fact that half the cabin is devoted to business class and premium economy seating. That is very much premium

As for 3+3+3 configuration down back, well that is anther reason why I will be avoiding Qantas at all costs. Give me 2+4+2 seating every time - even though it seems to be a dying trend now regrettably, like Cathay pacific's good seat pitch about to die by squeezing 2 more rows of seating into their aircraft. Never let an accountant loose to run an airline.
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At best you save a little immigration time by doing it in Perth, but if the immigration is really so slow and inefficient you will have to allow extra time for the connection anyway, which defeats the purpose.

You have obviously never done immigration through Perth They specialise in slow and inefficient.

 

[atillathehunn]

If you are talking about the Qantas 787-9s, you are ignoring the fact that half the cabin is devoted to business class and premium economy seating. That is very much premium

As for 3+3+3 configuration down back, well that is anther reason why I will be avoiding Qantas at all costs. Give me 2+4+2 seating every time - even though it seems to be a dying trend now regrettably, like Cathay pacific's good seat pitch about to die by squeezing 2 more rows of seating into their aircraft. Never let an accountant loose to run an airline.
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You have obviously never done immigration through Perth They specialise in slow and inefficient.

The seating down the back might be densely packed, but the saving grace is surely the fact they can't fill the plane for weight reasons. I don't know what this translates to in seat numbers left empty, but perhaps it will significantly increase the chances of a seat empty next to you?

 

[ian959]

The seating down the back might be densely packed, but the saving grace is surely the fact they can't fill the plane for weight reasons. I don't know what this translates to in seat numbers left empty, but perhaps it will significantly increase the chances of a seat empty next to you?

Depends who you listen to. Alan Joyce seems to think that based on Qantas' modelling, there should be no problems flying a full load from PER to LHR and back. Common sense suggests that at certain times of the year, prevailing winds will make it impossible to carry a full load even with the low seat numbers for a 787-9. So you are probably right - not that I would want to test it out

 

[atillathehunn]

Depends who you listen to. Alan Joyce seems to think that based on Qantas' modelling, there should be no problems flying a full load from PER to LHR and back. Common sense suggests that at certain times of the year, prevailing winds will make it impossible to carry a full load even with the low seat numbers for a 787-9. So you are probably right - not that I would want to test it out

That's a shame - that could have been a good trick for guaranteeing no middle seat on long haul.

I find it a little bit hard to believe, but I have no data to prove it. We'll wait and see. Though I've seen elsewhere that many are expecting a press release next year saying the deal with the WA government and airport fell through and there's nothing they can do but cancel the route.

 

[ian959]

Though I've seen elsewhere that many are expecting a press release next year saying the deal with the WA government and airport fell through and there's nothing they can do but cancel the route.

Not heard that one (yet) but there are still lots of hurdles before the service can happen. The biggest issue is the building work needed and given the incredibly slow pace at which Perth Airport works generally happen, there could well be delays to the start up date. The state election in March 2017 when the WA government is likely to change may also have a bearing on things.

It also seems slightly coincidental that Singapore Airlines have just announced additional services between Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne to Singapore to start several months before the new PER-LHR service. Give me one stop to Europe on Singapore Airlines any time over Qantas...

 

[atillathehunn]

Not heard that one (yet) but there are still lots of hurdles before the service can happen. The biggest issue is the building work needed and given the incredibly slow pace at which Perth Airport works generally happen, there could well be delays to the start up date. The state election in March 2017 when the WA government is likely to change may also have a bearing on things.

It also seems slightly coincidental that Singapore Airlines have just announced additional services between Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne to Singapore to start several months before the new PER-LHR service. Give me one stop to Europe on Singapore Airlines any time over Qantas...

I would imagine everybody anticipates the building work to overrun, but they will want to launch the service in advance of the traditionally busy periods to down under.

I don't know the domestic political situation, so I can't comment. But I had read on a different forum that many were sceptical it would ever go ahead. Probably to a combination effect rather than a single issue. There are also suggestions that it would not continue as a domestic flight, rather as an international one. Which I assume means you would do passport control in your arrival airport. Surely this seems counterfactual to the idea of saving time in the busier airport by using the relatively quiet Perth airport for the formal arrivals process?
Edit: I believe so that you would avoid the need to be bussed between terminals, which I agree would be a complete faff, especially as a brief perusal of the Perth weather forecast seems like it can get fairly toasty.

 

[dosxuk]

There are also suggestions that it would not continue as a domestic flight, rather as an international one. Which I assume means you would do passport control in your arrival airport. Surely this seems counterfactual to the idea of saving time in the busier airport by using the relatively quiet Perth airport for the formal arrivals process?

By continuing as an international flight, they don't need to clear / clean the aircraft before they continue on to the next leg (the import regulations are very strict in Oz, and on domestic flights you don't have to go through the import declarations, so someone leaving a pack of nuts on the international leg which is then picked up by someone on the domestic leg and brought in would be a big no-no!). I don't know if they're still doing it, but they used to do it with their SIN-ADL-SYD flight, which was handy for Adelaide passengers as it meant "leaving" Oz at Adelaide and being dumped into the Sydney international terminal for onward travel, rather than having to retrieve bags , trekking between terminals, checking in and reclearing security.

Edit: I believe so that you would avoid the need to be bussed between terminals, which I agree would be a complete faff, especially as a brief perusal of the Perth weather forecast seems like it can get fairly toasty.

Qantas are intending to move all of their international flights to PER to their current domestic terminal (after adding the requisite facilities), so no bussing needed.

 

[ian959]

But I had read on a different forum that many were sceptical it would ever go ahead. Probably to a combination effect rather than a single issue. There are also suggestions that it would not continue as a domestic flight, rather as an international one. Which I assume means you would do passport control in your arrival airport. Surely this seems counterfactual to the idea of saving time in the busier airport by using the relatively quiet Perth airport for the formal arrivals process?
Edit: I believe so that you would avoid the need to be bussed between terminals, which I agree would be a complete faff, especially as a brief perusal of the Perth weather forecast seems like it can get fairly toasty.

Ideally Qantas would like to have started these flights earlier to catch the Christmas traffic but the delivery times of the 787-9s are such that even starting in March 2018 will be difficult. The delivery dates of the aircraft are such that at best they may only have 3 787s in service by then, and they really need four aircraft for the two announced services so far. Any slippage in delivery dates will make things very problematic.

Everything I have seen so far suggests that the onward/inward flight to Melbourne would be a domestic flight but since Qantas have not announced anything formal regarding this, it is all conjecture at this time. It would seem logical for it to be a domestic flight from Melbourne, everyone gets off, clear immigration outbound and then board the same aircraft to London. Inbound, everyone clears customs and immigration in Perth, do a bag drop after clearing customs and then board on a domestic flight.

That would be consistent with the existing arrangements at Sydney/Brisbane/Melbourne, as well as consistent with the idea that transfers from international will predominantly be to domestic flights to SYD/BNE/MEL/ADL. It would be senseless to have MEL passengers treated differently to those going to other destinations. It would also be consistent with our strict biosecurity requirements.

Nothing wrong with being bussed between terminals Air conditioning works fine on our busses Qantas have been doing it for decades at Sydney...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Nothing wrong with being bussed between terminals Air conditioning works fine on our busses Qantas have been doing it for decades at Sydney...

I think it's best to design terminals around short walks (works well with "toast rack" and pier style terminals, not so well with long or round ones) and keep it to walking. Walking times are inherently predictable, as little or nothing will change the speed that an individual typically walks at indoors in a well-designed uncongested area. Once you involve wheeled transport, unpredictability creeps in, and so you need to leave more time. If a shuttle runs every 10 minutes, you have to build in an extra 10 minutes in case you miss one, for example.

 

[ld0595]

Flybe has released more details on its new Edinburgh/Aberdeen to Heathrow service.

• Starts on March 26th
• Operated by a Q400 rather than an E170/195
• 4 flights per day from Edinburgh on weekdays, 2 per day on Saturdays and 3 on Sundays
• 3 flights per day from Aberdeen on weekdays, 1 per day on Saturdays and 2 on Sundays
• Flight time to Heathrow - 2h from EDI, 2h15 from ABZ
• Flight time from Heathrow - 1h40 to EDI, 2h to ABZ
  

Will be interesting to see how successful the route is. Fares don't seem to be much cheaper than BA and flights take about 30 mins longer, but I wish them all the best!

 

[AlterEgo]

Wow, props back at Heathrow!

 

[stut]

Wow. Haven't seen those since KLM ran F50s to RTM...

(Got to say, I do actually quite like the crash-8s...)

 

[Tetchytyke]

Will be interesting to see how successful the route is. Fares don't seem to be much cheaper than BA and flights take about 30 mins longer, but I wish them all the best!

That'll probably be contingency time for the stack at Heathrow, given that a Dash-8 isn't going to be able to sit in the wake of an A380 for very long.

I wish them well. I wonder what the end game is here. It doesn't, on the face of it, look the best business plan in the world, unless their codeshare partners are putting a big slab of cash in.

 

[AlterEgo]

That'll probably be contingency time for the stack at Heathrow, given that a Dash-8 isn't going to be able to sit in the wake of an A380 for very long.

I wish them well. I wonder what the end game is here. It doesn't, on the face of it, look the best business plan in the world, unless their codeshare partners are putting a big slab of cash in.

It does look a bit speculative. They're putting their lowest-quality aircraft on the route. I'm intrigued how the traffic will be managed into Heathrow. A Dash-8 is like a paper aeroplane in any sort of wind or wake.

 

[WestCoast]

The Dash 8 has actually been a occasional visitor to Heathrow over the past few years - Flybe has actually flown them in from Brussels on behalf of Brussels Airlines and Swiss (op by Tyrolean) has flown them in from Geneva.

I suspect we might see Embraers if the venture is successful but the Dash is a cheaper way to test the market, it means they can utilise the fleet already based in Aberdeen and Edinburgh (I don't think Flybe base any Embraers at their Scottish airports, they all "live" in England/Wales but correct me if I'm wrong). Plus they won't earn that much from codeshare passengers connecting on to long-haul flights so it makes sense to use their cheapest aircraft and maybe succeed where Virgin failed.

 

[gsnedders]

I suspect we might see Embraers if the venture is successful but the Dash is a cheaper way to test the market, it means they can utilise the fleet already based in Aberdeen and Edinburgh (I don't think Flybe base any Embraers at their Scottish airports, they all "live" in England/Wales but correct me if I'm wrong). Plus they won't earn that much from codeshare passengers connecting on to long-haul flights so it makes sense to use their cheapest aircraft and maybe succeed where Virgin failed.

Pretty certain some at least frequently stay overnight at Glasgow. Though that's neither Edinburgh nor Aberdeen.

 

[Butts]

Pretty certain some at least frequently stay overnight at Glasgow. Though that's neither Edinburgh nor Aberdeen.

Pretty sure I got an Embraer down to Cardiff from Edinburgh early one morning so perhaps they have the odd "night out" in Edinburgh as well

 

[ld0595]

BBC is reporting that the upcoming British Airways strikes have been suspended.

 

[73001]

Russian Tu154 has been lost in the Black Sea... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/25/russian-military-plane-missing-in-black-sea-with-up-to-100-on-board-report-says

Sad news at any time of year. Thoughts go out to everyone involved.

 

[Butts]

A "Tale of 2 Airports"....

Glasgow was dead on Christmas Eve but Birmingham fairly busy on New Years Eve

 

[atillathehunn]

The Manchester - Dubai service from Emirates has gone over completely to A380 operation.

While good news for passenger numbers - 1551 seats per day out to Dubai! - it's a cut in the cargo capacity significantly from the 777 to the A380 which is bad news for the airport trying to entice cargo operators to its massive new cargo handling facility.

Would be interesting to know the load factors on those flights. 1500 is a lot of seats...

In other ME3 news, one of the Etihad rotations is going to be going over to the 787-9.

 

[freetoview33]

The Manchester - Dubai service from Emirates has gone over completely to A380 operation.

While good news for passenger numbers - 1551 seats per day out to Dubai! - it's a cut in the cargo capacity significantly from the 777 to the A380 which is bad news for the airport trying to entice cargo operators to its massive new cargo handling facility.

Would be interesting to know the load factors on those flights. 1500 is a lot of seats...

In other ME3 news, one of the Etihad rotations is going to be going over to the 787-9.

Well I guess they wouldn't of changed to an A380 if they didn't think there would be the extra demand.

 

[atillathehunn]

Well I guess they wouldn't of changed to an A380 if they didn't think there would be the extra demand.

Where did I say they wouldn't?

I was idly speculating - which is what internet forums are intended for - as to the nature of the flows they are transporting. Is it mostly inbound or is it outbound? Is it VFR? Is it tourism? It is business? What's the catchment radius from Manchester?

I also noted the part about cargo figures because each time I go through Manchetser - alarmingly regularly - I see big notices about their cargo handling facilities in the nearby manufacturing area adjacent to the airport. I then noted that one the big global airlines there is cutting capacity in cargo. I'm well aware it will make sense to Emirates. Just interesting its implications for the airport and local economy.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Heavy snow forcimg diversions for Istanbul flights.

Weirdly this one from Turkmenistan decided to divert all the way to Minsk!

https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/817479390967820288

 

[Butts]

Have Flybe tarted up some of their Dash 8 Q 400's. ?

Was on the 0900 from SOU to GLA this Morning and said beast had Blue Coloured Seats that seemed more substantial than the nomal Grey Livery variety.

Wondered if newer models have better seating - seemed a lot better than the normal Q400 offering.

 

[atillathehunn]

Heavy snow forcimg diversions for Istanbul flights.

Weirdly this one from Turkmenistan decided to divert all the way to Minsk!

https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/817479390967820288

I'm not sure Turkmenistan has many friends in the region, and so it's possibly diverting to the nearest 'friendly' airport.

The last Flybe planes I've been on have been tarted up quite considerably. Perhaps they've given them a lick of paint in preparation to their new life playing with the big boys at Heathrow.

 

[fowler9]

I'm not sure Turkmenistan has many friends in the region, and so it's possibly diverting to the nearest 'friendly' airport.

The last Flybe planes I've been on have been tarted up quite considerably. Perhaps they've given them a lick of paint in preparation to their new life playing with the big boys at Heathrow.

Wow, Minsk is a hell of a diversion. Belarus doesn't really have many friends anywhere though so maybe they were just putting it out there.

 

[berneyarms]

It may have been the closest airport to Istanbul at which the airline has handling facilities.

Airlines prefer to use airports where they already have handling facilities.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Given that Belarus requires visas even for transit for most nationalities it must have been a preplanned agreement.

I've never had a diverted flight, anyone else had an interesting diversion?

 

[AlterEgo]

One that Butts will appreciate: Just booked Norwich-Exeter on Flybe for £22...madness!