Aviation Discussion

[Butts]

Seat pitch and width are precisely the issue


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Plus you probably had much better grub and a nice Cigar and Cognac afterwards - heaven

 

[rf_ioliver]

To all of the wimps who can't take 17 hours on a nice smooth jet, remember that in 1957 TWA were flying Lockheed Starliners (the ultimate Constellation) from San Francisco to London in 18 and a half hours, with four thundering Wright Cyclones in your ear (although, as with many piston jobs at the time, you were lucky if all four were still running on arrival). I believe that the record for a piston engine airliner was over 23 hours for a TWA London-Los Angeles flight (must have had headwinds!). It must be said, however, that the seat pitch was somewhat more generous in those days.

Let's be a little more honest here...the service you got was somewhat different to now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJU9MLMSGp8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITBQDApTsm0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaXZ8Nisyjo

Last time I flew "a major Nordic airline" I was actually refused help to use the self check-in machine when it didn't recognise my booking code...followed by the bag drop complaining that I hadn't printed my baggage receipt from the check-in machine...

Or a major US airline boasting that they now serve "real coffee" - *except* on their subcontracted routes - on planes than have the same livery, same flight numbers, same crew uniforms etc etc...

Come to think of it the best service I've received recently on any short-haul route has been from TAP and Norwegian....the World's Favourite Airline lost my loyalty years ago I'm afraid.

t.

Ian

 

[freetoview33]

http://www.breakingtravelnews.com/n...ls-airlines-into-eurowings-from-january-2017/

Lufthansa to buy the remaining 55% of Brussels Airlines. Short Haul destinations will be re-branded as Eurowings. Long Haul destinations will continue under Brussels Airlines but will say "Member of the Eurowings Group"

Good? Bad? Could this see Lufthansa Group just become Eurowings Group?

 

[atillathehunn]

http://www.breakingtravelnews.com/n...ls-airlines-into-eurowings-from-january-2017/

Lufthansa to buy the remaining 55% of Brussels Airlines. Short Haul destinations will be re-branded as Eurowings. Long Haul destinations will continue under Brussels Airlines but will say "Member of the Eurowings Group"

Good? Bad? Could this see Lufthansa Group just become Eurowings Group?

I never thought I would praise anything Belgian, but SN long haul is good. I hope they don't lose their individuality. And by individuality I mean cracking good beer menu, which is as good as you would expect for a Belgian airline.

No surprise on short-haul. Never did see the point of their hap-hazard route network.

 

[me123]

^I've never flown SN long haul, but the SH is pretty good. Crew have always been exemplary when I've flown with them.

 

[atillathehunn]

^I've never flown SN long haul, but the SH is pretty good. Crew have always been exemplary when I've flown with them.

Nothing against their short-haul, but the route network just seems too small to be a game changing player and slightly too random.

Their long-haul network is primarily designed to shift people between America and Europe and Francophone Africa which they do very well. They are well regarded among people I've idly talked to in various capital cities.

 

[WestCoast]

Eurowings is a great low cost airline - low headline fares, professional Lufthansa standard crews, modern A320s, and the option to upgrade to extra legroom with a snack/drink for something like £15. Honestly I think I have enjoyed my short haul flights in Europe with them the most...

 

[Butts]

Been to Belfast today on Flybe...ex EDI Q400 both ways.

This was my Cyber Monday £39 Return.....

40 Minutes out, 35 Minutes back is there really any other way to get from Edinburgh to Belfast ?

City Hall looked nice decked out in Christmas Decs with the Seasonal Market in front.

Great day out for £40 !!!

 

[jon0844]

I did long haul with my ex if you want to talk about an audible assault on the senses? Noisy, cantankerous, unreliable and can make something simple turn into an eternity.

Are you describing the flight or your ex?

 

[AlterEgo]

Been to Belfast today on Flybe...ex EDI Q400 both ways.

This was my Cyber Monday £39 Return.....

40 Minutes out, 35 Minutes back is there really any other way to get from Edinburgh to Belfast ?

City Hall looked nice decked out in Christmas Decs with the Seasonal Market in front.

Great day out for £40 !!!

That is amazing value!

 

[atillathehunn]

Are you describing the flight or your ex?

I'll leave that up to your imagination...

Great value that, Butts!

 

[Butts]

That is amazing value!

As I said at the time that was a Cybermonday real offer ...not some half baked sold at 28 days in the last 10 years job reduction

Even better value my Blackfriday £48 return to Southampton coming up in January

 

[fowler9]

As I said at the time that was a Cybermonday real offer ...not some half baked sold at 28 days in the last 10 years job reduction

Even better value my Blackfriday £48 return to Southampton coming up in January

Nice one chief. I may see if I can get a bargain from Liverpool. Never been on a Crash 8.

 

[atillathehunn]

Nice one chief. I may see if I can get a bargain from Liverpool. Never been on a Crash 8.

What's flybe's network out of Liverpool?

 

[ian959]

That non-stop flight would be good if you had the money to pay for the fare (which will probably be higher than flights with a stop-over).

Although 16 hours on a plane would get boring after a while (I did Shanghai - Heathrow last year and landing was more than welcome after 12-odd hours in the air)

Indeed, it should be pointed out that this PER-LHR service IS a premium fare service due to the seat configuration that Qantas have chosen for their 787-9s. This effectively will put the flights out of the pocket of the semi-budget/family flyers, even before considering whether they would want to spend 17 hours cooped up in any airplane.

It should be noted too that the rumour is that it will be a MEL-PER-LHR service, with Qantas dropping the MEL-DXB-LHR A380 service. Not sure how well that will go down with the Melbourne crowd if true.

My personal view is that Qantas are overestimating the market for this non-stop service, even with the business flyers that the service is obviously aimed at. Given that nearly all, if not all, major Australian destinations have a one stop service to Europe already, I just don't see why people would switch to using a one stop service via PER, especially when you would be stepping down fro a better airline in many cases (especially if using Cathay Pacific or Singapore Airlines).

 

[atillathehunn]

Indeed, it should be pointed out that this PER-LHR service IS a premium fare service due to the seat configuration that Qantas have chosen for their 787-9s. This effectively will put the flights out of the pocket of the semi-budget/family flyers, even before considering whether they would want to spend 17 hours cooped up in any airplane.

It should be noted too that the rumour is that it will be a MEL-PER-LHR service, with Qantas dropping the MEL-DXB-LHR A380 service. Not sure how well that will go down with the Melbourne crowd if true.

My personal view is that Qantas are overestimating the market for this non-stop service, even with the business flyers that the service is obviously aimed at. Given that nearly all, if not all, major Australian destinations have a one stop service to Europe already, I just don't see why people would switch to using a one stop service via PER, especially when you would be stepping down fro a better airline in many cases (especially if using Cathay Pacific or Singapore Airlines).

The dropping of MEL-DXB-LHR has been going round as you say, with anecdotal evidence saying they struggle to fill an A380, not helped by the lack of connections available compared to Sydney.

I've heard mixed reviews about QF up front so let's not rule it out.

The big advantage they have is a semi-private transfer experience in Perth. While it's not optimal right now, apparently there are plans afoot to make the transfer smoother, and with few other international flights and very few transfer flights, it could be a nice experience.

 

[ian959]

And there are a few military runways in Western Australia that could accept it if Perth couldn't in an emergency.

Not really correct...

There are only two military runways that are really capable of taking widebody aircraft in Western Australia. RAAF Base Learmonth is the primary alternate obviously as it is a regular RPT airport. RAAF Base Curtin (near Derby) could take widebodies but the facilities there are minimal and only sporadically used. They are not manned full time - basically only in care and maintenance mode most of the time. The runway at RAAF Base Pearce is probably just about able to handle widebodies up to 787/A350 size but it would be tight and in any case being so close to Perth Airport, using it in an emergency would be relatively pointless.

Otherwise there is Darwin.

 

[ian959]

I would challenge Qantas' claim that Perth could be a gateway to Western Australia (I think that Dubai offers a better gateway from the whole of the UK to the whole of Australia).

I agree with you. I think Alan Joyce is/has been smoking some funny tobacco if he seriously thinks that Perth offers a better gateway to Australia than any of Dubai, Doha, Abu Dhabi or Singapore (the main choices, let alone considering the merits of Hong Kong, Bangkok and Kuala Lumpur).

One interesting fact about transferring the Qantas international flights from Terminal 1 to Terminal 3 at Perth is that the international swing-gate facilities at Terminal 3 will pretty much use the area that used to be the old international terminal, built in 1962 for the Commonwealth Games, that was closed in 1986 when the current Terminal 1 was opened.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They've gone 9-abreast in economy. Nothing premium about that, it's greedy airlines with a seat that is totally unsuitable for long-haul, let alone short-haul (the A320 narrow-aisle configuration chosen by most airlines has wider seats).

 

[anme]

They've gone 9-abreast in economy. Nothing premium about that, it's greedy airlines with a seat that is totally unsuitable for long-haul, let alone short-haul (the A320 narrow-aisle configuration chosen by most airlines has wider seats).

Agree. Nine across in a 787 for long haul is grim. I don't know the numbers but it feels as bad as 10 across in a 777, as much criticised here recently. It's certainly not a premium configuration.

I don't really buy the "Perth as a gateway" story. A direct flight to Perth is good if you want to go to Perth, but if you need to stop or transfer anyway it doesn't make a big difference where it is. Singapore, Hong Kong, Dubai, etc are all equally good. At best you save a little immigration time by doing it in Perth, but if the immigration is really so slow and inefficient you will have to allow extra time for the connection anyway, which defeats the purpose.

In the end it will come down to price, as always.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The problem is that one airline starts the race to the bottom and all others follow.

There needs to be legislation on seat width as well as pitch (and pitch related legislation, which does exist in the UK, needs to require a wider pitch). I'd suggest the Boeing 737 seat (16.something inches) as an absolute minimum - the 787 with 9 across is actually narrower.

 

[atillathehunn]

To deviate wildly, I've found what might be the shortest scheduled A380 service in the world while putting together an intinerary: EK841/842 from DXB-DOH.

Coming in at just 378km and a typical flight time of 50 minutes (from flightradar), which one assumes must include a fair amount of taxi time as well.

I'm sure there's a record somewhere on the most amount of champagne guzzled in business class on the little hop.

 

[berneyarms]

To deviate wildly, I've found what might be the shortest scheduled A380 service in the world while putting together an intinerary: EK841/842 from DXB-DOH.

Coming in at just 378km and a typical flight time of 50 minutes (from flightradar), which one assumes must include a fair amount of taxi time as well.

I'm sure there's a record somewhere on the most amount of champagne guzzled in business class on the little hop.

Forget about Business Class!

What about First Class?

 

[Airline Man]

The problem is that one airline starts the race to the bottom and all others follow.

There needs to be legislation on seat width as well as pitch (and pitch related legislation, which does exist in the UK, needs to require a wider pitch). I'd suggest the Boeing 737 seat (16.something inches) as an absolute minimum - the 787 with 9 across is actually narrower.

Too true. BA has been lowering it's standards for a few years now. Just doing enough to keep it ahead of the competition. Now they've gone down the path of paying for food in Economy, but making sure their sandwiches are from M&S!

This has not gone down well with the staff, most of which want to be working for a full service airline.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As far as I am concerned there is now no reason to fly BA over easyJet unless they are cheaper.

 

[Butts]

Too true. BA has been lowering it's standards for a few years now. Just doing enough to keep it ahead of the competition. Now they've gone down the path of paying for food in Economy, but making sure their sandwiches are from M&S!

This has not gone down well with the staff, most of which want to be working for a full service airline.

I thought it would have made it easier for Staff on UK Domestic - as when it's free just about everyone will have something but paying is a different matter.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As far as I am concerned there is now no reason to fly BA over easyJet unless they are cheaper.

Or you are flying from Scotland via Heathrow where you still get a free hold luggage allowance. (23 kg) check what Flybe or Easyjet charge for that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Or you are flying from Scotland via Heathrow where you still get a free hold luggage allowance. (23 kg) check what Flybe or Easyjet charge for that.

I'd include that in "being cheaper" if I did want to check a bag - it's the final figure that goes on my card that I'm interested in.

 

[Butts]

I'd include that in "being cheaper" if I did want to check a bag - it's the final figure that goes on my card that I'm interested in.

That's the problem that figure is often the same now for a no-frills as it was for full service a few years ago.

As you mentioned earlier it's a race to the bottom

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's the problem that figure is often the same now for a no-frills as it was for full service a few years ago.

As you mentioned earlier it's a race to the bottom

I realise that. In the past I might have ascribed a bit of extra value to BA for intangibles, but no longer.

 

[AlterEgo]

As far as I am concerned there is now no reason to fly BA over easyJet unless they are cheaper.

I am still prepared to pay a small premium to fly BA because I can usually avail of the Gold member benefits. Otherwise, very little difference on short haul economy as you say.