Aviation Discussion

[dievoyagerdie]

Neil Williams - easyJet have stated that the HQ will remain in England regardless of the subsidiary. The subsidiary will be a similar setup to easyJet Switzerland.

If the UK does set a competitive corporate tax rate then there are means and ways of it getting to the UK. For example licensing fees on the 'new' airline for the use of the easyJet systems (not, not the name, easyJet do not own the name, so they couldn't charge a franchise fee for the use of the name I don't suppose). A bit like Starbuck's buying overpriced in house coffee from Luxemburg. Or IKEA paying a pittance in tax due to its structure. There are means and ways is what I'm saying.

easyJet expect 9% growth next year, half of which it expects to be in the UK.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Neil Williams - easyJet have stated that the HQ will remain in England regardless of the subsidiary.

They have said that the functional HQ will remain in England (Luton). Not that this will be the holding company.

 

[Crawley Ben]

Fair point, although I suspect Flybe's business model is rather different to Sleazy's.



It's interesting that no major budget airline until Norwegian tried long haul flights (anyone know how Norwegian are doing?). I'm guessing the high investment, lack of "open skies" arrangements and lack of immediate scale have put them off. They might also worry whether than can grow the market enough (long haul flights are less of an "impulse buy" for a weekend away), and the ease with which established players could price them out of a market (major flag carriers with a large long haul operations can afford to cut prices on a single route to kill off a competitor).

Norwegian are doing very well with their long haul ops ex Gatwick, this I know because I deal with their flights every single day that I'm at work. They have certainly given BA something to think about if you ask me. I say this as BA will be going head to head with them on the LGW - Oakland route & Fort Lauderdale too as well from next year (LGW - JFK already served by both from Gatwick).

A decent LCC when things go right. When things go wrong however.....

Thanks

Ben

 

[dievoyagerdie]

Neil Williams - they will always be predominately base in Luton. There's no way they will uproot the H89 staff. The hangar staff will not stand for it. The hangar grows and grows. The new mainland HQ will run on a skeleton staff only.

 

[atillathehunn]

Neil Williams - they will always be predominately base in Luton. There's no way they will uproot the H89 staff. The hangar staff will not stand for it. The hangar grows and grows. The new mainland HQ will run on a skeleton staff only.

Not really the point. If the ownership and just enough of the staff and turnover is shifted overseas then the UK loses the not insignificant corporate tax.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Norwegian are doing very well with their long haul ops ex Gatwick, this I know because I deal with their flights every single day that I'm at work. They have certainly given BA something to think about if you ask me. I say this as BA will be going head to head with them on the LGW - Oakland route & Fort Lauderdale too as well from next year (LGW - JFK already served by both from Gatwick).

A decent LCC when things go right. When things go wrong however.....

Thanks

Ben

WW has made clear, possibly even in a link posted in this forum, that BA are now going head to head against Norwegian. The move to 10-a-breast in Y is a symbol of that. BA's advantage is the contract work for the cruise lines and tour companies. The Oakland flight was opened with marketing literature hinting at the proximity to the Napa Valley, so upper end tourism.

It would be interesting to know whether any of the long haul LCCs have picked up corporate contract work, particularly Norwegian with their differentiated product.
Our firm in Asia had an agreement with AirAsia, but not to the same extend, we just got discounts on our core three routes (between the offices) so it is possible.

But you are right, Ben, that they don't have the same IRROPS procedures as the larger airlines and that's going to be a sticking point for some, but as you say, not for others.

Interestingly Norwegian have pulled all their LAS flights for the summer period. The reasons cited is the delay compensation (EU261 one imagines) is eating their margins on these flights due to near inevitable delays to take-off from LAS in the summer when their Dreamliners can't hit the performance factors required to heave a full plane off the ground. The airport official cited in the article said that Norwegian and the airport were very disappointed as their load factors were 80+% and in same cases 90+%.

Fowler9: sounds like a pretty amazing trip. I remember the railway museum near Ipswich being incredible. Wish I had taken more pictures. Gold Coast seems like it's overhyped as a destination, but sounds like you enjoyed it nonetheless. Bus and truck racing sounds fun though...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Neil Williams - they will always be predominately base in Luton. There's no way they will uproot the H89 staff. The hangar staff will not stand for it. The hangar grows and grows. The new mainland HQ will run on a skeleton staff only.

I didn't say otherwise. What I did say is that the UK will become a subsidiary company. That doesn't exclude the operational HQ being at Luton - the company effectively subcontracts HQ functions to the UK subsidiary.

 

[fowler9]

Not really the point. If the ownership and just enough of the staff and turnover is shifted overseas then the UK loses the not insignificant corporate tax.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


WW has made clear, possibly even in a link posted in this forum, that BA are now going head to head against Norwegian. The move to 10-a-breast in Y is a symbol of that. BA's advantage is the contract work for the cruise lines and tour companies. The Oakland flight was opened with marketing literature hinting at the proximity to the Napa Valley, so upper end tourism.

It would be interesting to know whether any of the long haul LCCs have picked up corporate contract work, particularly Norwegian with their differentiated product.
Our firm in Asia had an agreement with AirAsia, but not to the same extend, we just got discounts on our core three routes (between the offices) so it is possible.

But you are right, Ben, that they don't have the same IRROPS procedures as the larger airlines and that's going to be a sticking point for some, but as you say, not for others.

Interestingly Norwegian have pulled all their LAS flights for the summer period. The reasons cited is the delay compensation (EU261 one imagines) is eating their margins on these flights due to near inevitable delays to take-off from LAS in the summer when their Dreamliners can't hit the performance factors required to heave a full plane off the ground. The airport official cited in the article said that Norwegian and the airport were very disappointed as their load factors were 80+% and in same cases 90+%.

Fowler9: sounds like a pretty amazing trip. I remember the railway museum near Ipswich being incredible. Wish I had taken more pictures. Gold Coast seems like it's overhyped as a destination, but sounds like you enjoyed it nonetheless. Bus and truck racing sounds fun though...

To be honest Australia wasn't on my radar at all as a place I wanted to go but the ex convinced me to visit since we had a mate of mine in Melbourne we could stay with and her distant relatives on the Gold Coast. We did a lot of stuff tourists don't get to do and I'm glad we went. My plan for the whole trip was just Hong Kong and more time in New Zealand and South America. We did some amazing stuff with the people we visited and also went to Canberra (Dull, glad I went just so I could say that), Sydney and Byron Bay. Part of me wishes the money had gone on the Navimag ferry up the west coast of Patagonia though.

 

[Butts]

To be honest Australia wasn't on my radar at all as a place I wanted to go but the ex convinced me to visit since we had a mate of mine in Melbourne we could stay with and her distant relatives on the Gold Coast. We did a lot of stuff tourists don't get to do and I'm glad we went. My plan for the whole trip was just Hong Kong and more time in New Zealand and South America. We did some amazing stuff with the people we visited and also went to Canberra (Dull, glad I went just so I could say that), Sydney and Byron Bay. Part of me wishes the money had gone on the Navimag ferry up the west coast of Patagonia though.

Did you not see the spectacular avenue with The National War Memorial at one end and the Parliament at the other end. ?

 

[fowler9]

Did you not see the spectacular avenue with The National War Memorial at one end and the Parliament at the other end. ?

We got off the Greyhound at about 4 in the morning, hung around in McDonalds as it was the only place open (Fair enough) until about six. Walked to the parliament building, got a bus back in and then went to the War Memorial. By late morning we went back to the bus station and asked if we could change our tickets to the next one to Sydney. Possibly seems harsh of me and the ex but five years later I haven't spoken to many people from anywhere who thinks it is that interesting a place. The further month and a half we spent in Australia we met loads of Australians who all asked why we went.

 

[Butts]

We got off the Greyhound at about 4 in the morning, hung around in McDonalds as it was the only place open (Fair enough) until about six. Walked to the parliament building, got a bus back in and then went to the War Memorial. By late morning we went back to the bus station and asked if we could change our tickets to the next one to Sydney. Possibly seems harsh of me and the ex but five years later I haven't spoken to many people from anywhere who thinks it is that interesting a place. The further month and a half we spent in Australia we met loads of Australians who all asked why we went.

I suppose it is the Capital - I only did a day there flew in and out the same day from Melbourne I think or it could have been Sydney.

 

[fowler9]

I suppose it is the Capital - I only did a day there flew in and out the same day from Melbourne I think or it could have been Sydney.

Don't get me wrong I am glad to have been there, we were originally going to spend 2 nights but the hostels there were horrendously expensive. Once we got there though it was just very clinically laid out. We also saw the Aboriginal Parliament which was basically a tent city in front of the Australian Parliament, that was quite interesting. It was a bit embarrassing going to the greyhound bus station and asking if we could leave, the be honest though the guy behind the counter laughed after he asked what we didn't like about Canberra, he could see we had just arrived.

Apologies for going off the aviation subject matter of the thread. It was after all part of the greatest aviation odyssey of my life. A trip around the world.

 

[Butts]

Don't get me wrong I am glad to have been there, we were originally going to spend 2 nights but the hostels there were horrendously expensive. Once we got there though it was just very clinically laid out. We also saw the Aboriginal Parliament which was basically a tent city in front of the Australian Parliament, that was quite interesting. It was a bit embarrassing going to the greyhound bus station and asking if we could leave, the be honest though the guy behind the counter laughed after he asked what we didn't like about Canberra, he could see we had just arrived.

Apologies for going off the aviation subject matter of the thread. It was after all part of the greatest aviation odyssey of my life. A trip around the world.

I did mine on Air New Zealand at that time you could do the whole circuit exclusively on their services. One of the links has now gone can't remember which one.

London-Hong Kong-New Zealand-Australia-New Zealand-Los Angeles-London.

Under a Grand...just.

Did a load of internal flights as well in all the countries but Hong Kong - ferry to Macau only from there.

Used to be a good Airline don't know if they still are.

 

[fowler9]

I did mine on Air New Zealand at that time you could do the whole circuit exclusively on their services. One of the links has now gone can't remember which one.

London-Hong Kong-New Zealand-Australia-New Zealand-Los Angeles-London.

Under a Grand...just.

Did a load of internal flights as well in all the countries but Hong Kong - ferry to Macau only from there.

Used to be a good Airline don't know if they still are.

Thats a good price. I think Air New Zealand still do it via London (Apologies if I am wrong. I remember reading they were the only airline you could circumnavigate the globe on). Oddly enough despite spending 2 1/2 months in New Zealand I never flew with them. I understand that their economy product isn't as good these days compared with other airlines. Their 777's are 10 across I think, apologies again if I am wrong.

We paid a bit more through an STA travel place. Had a travel butler service so we could could change our flights for free which was good because otherwise we would have been sleeping rough in Brisbane, Auckland and Buenos Aires. Ha ha.

We did (Apologies if I am repeating myself) Manchester-Heathrow, Heathrow-Hong Kong, Hong Kong Melbourne, Brisban-Christchurch, Auckland-Santiago, Buenos Aires-Heathrow and Heathrow Manchester. The Heathrow-Manchester bits cost no more than flying from Heathrow as the starting point which was nice.

 

[Hornet]

I did mine on Air New Zealand at that time you could do the whole circuit exclusively on their services. One of the links has now gone can't remember which one.

London-Hong Kong-New Zealand-Australia-New Zealand-Los Angeles-London.

Under a Grand...just.

Did a load of internal flights as well in all the countries but Hong Kong - ferry to Macau only from there.

Used to be a good Airline don't know if they still are.

London - Auckland via Hong Kong now gone I believe. Me and the other half did Dublin - Heathrow - Los Angeles - Papeete - Rarotonga - Auckland - Hong Kong - Heathrow - Dublin with Aer Lingus/Air New Zealand a few years back. Most in PE. Don't think I could have survived in cattle. The Auckland - Heathrow stretch was interminable with just a 2 hour stop over in HK. Would break it up into shorter flights with longer stop overs if I did it in future. ANZ service was superb, and plenty of All Blacks games to watch on the personal in flight entertainment. (A320 - B777 - B767 - B767 - B767 - B747 (Upper) - B747 (Upper) - A320). As for LAX, what a steaming pile of doo-doo.

 

[fowler9]

London - Auckland via Hong Kong now gone I believe. Me and the other half did Dublin - Heathrow - Los Angeles - Papeete - Rarotonga - Auckland - Hong Kong - Heathrow - Dublin with Aer Lingus/Air New Zealand a few years back. Most in PE. Don't think I could have survived in cattle. The Auckland - Heathrow stretch was interminable with just a 2 hour stop over in HK. Would break it up into shorter flights with longer stop overs if I did it in future. ANZ service was superb, and plenty of All Blacks games to watch on the personal in flight entertainment. (A320 - B777 - B767 - B767 - B767 - B747 (Upper) - B747 (Upper) - A320).

Sounds brilliant, never been on a 767. Mine was A320-B747-B747-A320-A340-B777-A320. (All back of the bus so to say, ha ha).

Apologies to some but the A340 was the best for me. I remember when they printed off our itinerary at the travel agent and I saw LAN A340 it was the thing I was most excited about for the entire trip. Ha ha.

 

[Butts]

Thats a good price. I think Air New Zealand still do it via London (Apologies if I am wrong. I remember reading they were the only airline you could circumnavigate the globe on). Oddly enough despite spending 2 1/2 months in New Zealand I never flew with them. I understand that their economy product isn't as good these days compared with other airlines. Their 777's are 10 across I think, apologies again if I am wrong.

We paid a bit more through an STA travel place. Had a travel butler service so we could could change our flights for free which was good because otherwise we would have been sleeping rough in Brisbane, Auckland and Buenos Aires. Ha ha.

We did (Apologies if I am repeating myself) Manchester-Heathrow, Heathrow-Hong Kong, Hong Kong Melbourne, Brisban-Christchurch, Auckland-Santiago, Buenos Aires-Heathrow and Heathrow Manchester. The Heathrow-Manchester bits cost no more than flying from Heathrow as the starting point which was nice.

I forgot to mention I started and ended in Edinburgh. It's the Hong Kong Link that has gone on Air New Zealand.

I see you mentioned Santiago - on another trip with Air France I flew from there to Paris which was about 16 hours :cry: Longest flight I've ever done and would never repeat in "cattle"

 

[fowler9]

I forgot to mention I started and ended in Edinburgh. It's the Hong Kong Link that has gone on Air New Zealand.

I see you mentioned Santiago - on another trip with Air France I flew from there to Paris which was about 16 hours :cry: Longest flight I've ever done and would never repeat in "cattle"

What was it? 777 at a guess? Are they 9 or 10 across with Air France. I personally didn't rate BA on a 12 hour 747 from Heathrow to Hong Kong or the 13 hour 777 from Buenos Aires to Heathrow. It was kind of exciting but you know.

 

[Butts]

What was it? 777 at a guess? Are they 9 or 10 across with Air France. I personally didn't rate BA on a 12 hour 747 from Heathrow to Hong Kong or the 13 hour 777 from Buenos Aires to Heathrow. It was kind of exciting but you know.

I can't remember if it was a 777 or an Airbus - even though I blagged an exit seat it was like a journey from Thurso to Penzance on a Pacer.

 

[Hornet]

Sounds brilliant, never been on a 767. Mine was A320-B747-B747-A320-A340-B777-A320. (All back of the bus so to say, ha ha).

Apologies to some but the A340 was the best for me. I remember when they printed off our itinerary at the travel agent and I saw LAN A340 it was the thing I was most excited about for the entire trip. Ha ha.

The B767 was pretty ropey as the legs on them were cattle (they didn't have PE on them), so it was cattle LAX to Papeete. Luck was on our side though, as the plane was only a third full we were able to get a complete row of seats each to crash. IFE was a large screen showing a film that nobody cared to watch. Apparently we were in the dying days of the Trans Pacific 'Coral Route', as the demand for LAX Papeete with ANZ had been somewhat usurped by Air Tahiti Nui's Paris - LAX - Papeete flights on A340's.

 

[fowler9]

I can't remember if it was a 777 or an Airbus - even though I blagged an exit seat it was like a journey from Thurso to Penzance on a Pacer.

Ha ha, 13 hours on the LAN A340 was fine but me and the ex had the outer 2 seats together near the back. It really did feel quite spacious to me.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The B767 was pretty ropey as the legs on them were cattle (they didn't have PE on them), so it was cattle LAX to Papeete. Luck was on our side though, as the plane was only a third full we were able to get a complete row of seats each to crash. IFE was a large screen showing a film that nobody cared to watch. Apparently we were in the dying days of the Trans Pacific 'Coral Route', as the demand for LAX Papeete with ANZ had been somewhat usurped by Air Tahiti Nui's Paris - LAX - Papeete flights on A340's.

Ah right. I was really lucky I guess, all the real long haul I have done has been on planes with seat back entertainment with dozens of films and programs. I reckon I could manage trans Atlantic to the East Coast of the US just with a good book. Anything longer without a choice of entertainment other than a big screen at the front and I would probably go nuts.

 

[gsnedders]

Sounds brilliant, never been on a 767.

BA fly a few domestically from LHR to EDI/GLA if you want to get on a 767 for its own sake!

 

[fowler9]

BA fly a few domestically from LHR to EDI/GLA if you want to get on a 767 for its own sake!

Spotted those on Flight Radar. I'd love to go on one but not sure I I could be bothered doing Liverpool to London to Scotland and back to Liverpool just for the pleasure. One thing I did want to do was Manchester to Munich on a Singapore 777, train to Frankfurt to visit a cousin then LAN 787 to Madrid to meet some mates who live in Spain. Sadly no longer possible, it was in the pipeline for October but I was off long term sick earlier in the year and lost a lot of money. Could still do the 787 but have been told it isn't worth the effort.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

I think Air New Zealand still do it via London (Apologies if I am wrong. I remember reading they were the only airline you could circumnavigate the globe on).

I think United used to have a circumnavigation option via London, India (Mumbai or Delhi, I forget which) and somewhere in the far east (likely Tokyo). It would be interesting to know how Air New Zealand are doing roueting pax via LAX now that Emirates flies an A380 non-stop DXB-AKL (currently the world's longest scheduled passenger service).

I reckon I could manage trans Atlantic to the East Coast of the US just with a good book. Anything longer without a choice of entertainment other than a big screen at the front and I would probably go nuts.

Up to 10 hours with IFE always seems fine to me, up to 14 hours gets tedious (UK to SE Asia) and anything longer is just a marathon. I flew TransPac (US to Aus) once, 15.5 hours, nearly all in darkness and I couldn't wait to get off.

 

[AlterEgo]

Spotted those on Flight Radar. I'd love to go on one but not sure I I could be bothered doing Liverpool to London to Scotland and back to Liverpool just for the pleasure. One thing I did want to do was Manchester to Munich on a Singapore 777, train to Frankfurt to visit a cousin then LAN 787 to Madrid to meet some mates who live in Spain. Sadly no longer possible, it was in the pipeline for October but I was off long term sick earlier in the year and lost a lot of money. Could still do the 787 but have been told it isn't worth the effort.

The LATAM 787-9 is a great wheeze, pricing up at around £90 one way in Business with all the pisco sours you can manage (may be a little more now as the fare is filed in Euro). Couple that with an open jaw, out to Madrid on the Iberia A340 and back from Frankfurt on a BA 767, and that's a pretty sweet trip.

 

[atillathehunn]

Spotted those on Flight Radar. I'd love to go on one but not sure I I could be bothered doing Liverpool to London to Scotland and back to Liverpool just for the pleasure. One thing I did want to do was Manchester to Munich on a Singapore 777, train to Frankfurt to visit a cousin then LAN 787 to Madrid to meet some mates who live in Spain. Sadly no longer possible, it was in the pipeline for October but I was off long term sick earlier in the year and lost a lot of money. Could still do the 787 but have been told it isn't worth the effort.

Sorry to hear you were off sick, Fowler. Hope all's well now?

The Munich-Manchester hop is not possible anymore, sorry to say. The SQ flights have been changed around. Munich has its own service, and the Moscow service which used to continue to Houston has been turned into a terminating service in Moscow. Manchester is now non-stop from Singapore and thence continues to Houston.

As AlterEgo says, there are wide body option for a hop round Europe. I believe Sunday is pretty much guaranteed for an A340 on the LHR-MAD route.

The 787 is definitely not worth it, certainly not in economy! The 787-9 might be a different story, but the 787-8 was a joke. Though £90 for a J trip MAD-FRA might be worth it.

I've been tempted by a RTW world ticket, but I've always preferred doing trips to each place for a longer time. I might look into it one day. As someone said, Air New Zealand serve both Hong Kong and London, but no longer on the same route. LHR-AKL is now via LAX. AirNZ just did well in the international rankings, somewhere near Singapore airlines. So not all bad.

I believe Air India now do the circumnavigation trick. I believe their Delhi-San Francisco goes Pacific out and Atlantic return to benefit from the wind. I may have got the wrong end of the stick and it's United that do that, but I would have sworn it was Air India... Still far, far too long to contemplate.

I don't mind the ULR flights. I can usually find a way to amuse myself, or sleep, or read. It's the long (or unexpectedly long) transfers. I seem to get lucky on my long haul flights and find somewhere to sleep. Airports seem to be deliberately uncomfortable, timeless and can somehow remove the flavour from food.

 

[flymo]

Air NZ used to do AKL - LHR via both LAX (NZ1 & 2) and HKG (NZ38 & 39 ??) They no longer fly the HKG-LHR section, Don't think any airlines fly round the world now but NZ certainly used to.

I remember in 2007 in Auckland flying back to HKG there were two flights to LHR within a couple of hours of each other via very different routeings.

Best hope for a RTW ticket now is Star Alliance or One World or another alliance.

 

[fowler9]

Sorry to hear you were off sick, Fowler. Hope all's well now?

The Munich-Manchester hop is not possible anymore, sorry to say. The SQ flights have been changed around. Munich has its own service, and the Moscow service which used to continue to Houston has been turned into a terminating service in Moscow. Manchester is now non-stop from Singapore and thence continues to Houston.

As AlterEgo says, there are wide body option for a hop round Europe. I believe Sunday is pretty much guaranteed for an A340 on the LHR-MAD route.

The 787 is definitely not worth it, certainly not in economy! The 787-9 might be a different story, but the 787-8 was a joke. Though £90 for a J trip MAD-FRA might be worth it.

I've been tempted by a RTW world ticket, but I've always preferred doing trips to each place for a longer time. I might look into it one day. As someone said, Air New Zealand serve both Hong Kong and London, but no longer on the same route. LHR-AKL is now via LAX. AirNZ just did well in the international rankings, somewhere near Singapore airlines. So not all bad.

I believe Air India now do the circumnavigation trick. I believe their Delhi-San Francisco goes Pacific out and Atlantic return to benefit from the wind. I may have got the wrong end of the stick and it's United that do that, but I would have sworn it was Air India... Still far, far too long to contemplate.

I don't mind the ULR flights. I can usually find a way to amuse myself, or sleep, or read. It's the long (or unexpectedly long) transfers. I seem to get lucky on my long haul flights and find somewhere to sleep. Airports seem to be deliberately uncomfortable, timeless and can somehow remove the flavour from food.

Cheers for asking mate. I've suffered from anxiety and depression since I was a teen (Am 42 now). Had a bad spell earlier in the year, I was in work then I was off then I was in etc. I had a really good manager. Kept getting panic attacks in work, don't now if you have ever had one but they are difficult to explain to anyone who hasn't. It is very much physical even though it is caused by what is going on in your head. Anyway, that is for a different thread. Ha ha.

I was lucky with my round the world ticket with the ex. We had time on our hands and were away for over 6 months so we spent a lot of time everywhere we went. Kind of like a gap year in my late 30's. Ha ha. Loved the flights and even hanging around in the airports seeing airlines you just don't see (Especially at John Lennon Airport, Ha ha).

I really want to get some heavies on short hauls over the next 12 months so will plan them in with meeting friends and family around Europe, as others have kindly pointed out they are knocking around. Someone mentioned the Iberia A340 from London to Madrid, looks good and I've seen it on Flight Radar.

 

[vrbarreto]

Sorry to hear you were off sick, Fowler. Hope all's well now?

The Munich-Manchester hop is not possible anymore, sorry to say. The SQ flights have been changed around. Munich has its own service, and the Moscow service which used to continue to Houston has been turned into a terminating service in Moscow. Manchester is now non-stop from Singapore and thence continues to Houston.

As AlterEgo says, there are wide body option for a hop round Europe. I believe Sunday is pretty much guaranteed for an A340 on the LHR-MAD route.

The 787 is definitely not worth it, certainly not in economy! The 787-9 might be a different story, but the 787-8 was a joke. Though £90 for a J trip MAD-FRA might be worth it.

I've been tempted by a RTW world ticket, but I've always preferred doing trips to each place for a longer time. I might look into it one day. As someone said, Air New Zealand serve both Hong Kong and London, but no longer on the same route. LHR-AKL is now via LAX. AirNZ just did well in the international rankings, somewhere near Singapore airlines. So not all bad.

I believe Air India now do the circumnavigation trick. I believe their Delhi-San Francisco goes Pacific out and Atlantic return to benefit from the wind. I may have got the wrong end of the stick and it's United that do that, but I would have sworn it was Air India... Still far, far too long to contemplate.

I don't mind the ULR flights. I can usually find a way to amuse myself, or sleep, or read. It's the long (or unexpectedly long) transfers. I seem to get lucky on my long haul flights and find somewhere to sleep. Airports seem to be deliberately uncomfortable, timeless and can somehow remove the flavour from food.

Air India do it using the 777-200LR

On the 21st of October flew 16,422km over 15 hours.

Compared to the Atlantic route it was an extra 1,400 kilometres but due to the tailwind took over an hour and a half less time

 

[gsnedders]

I really want to get some heavies on short hauls over the next 12 months so will plan them in with meeting friends and family around Europe, as others have kindly pointed out they are knocking around. Someone mentioned the Iberia A340 from London to Madrid, looks good and I've seen it on Flight Radar.

I ended up on the Iberia A340 from MAD–LHR (and onto GLA on a BA 767!) a year or two ago—entirely accidental too. Business class, as well! (Hey, it was cheaper than economy!) Quite weird having a lie-flat seat on a 2.5 hour flight. What I found most interesting about that (BIO–MAD–LHR—GLA) was the A319 (or was it an A318?) on the domestic Iberia flight, with 2+2 seating and lots of legroom—a world apart to what you get on BA's short-haul product. Interesting IAG seem to have kept them, any idea why? Spanish market more demanding? More of a market for a premium domestic product than in the UK? (It was a 50 minute flight, so shorter than the LHR–GLA mono-class leg.)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Unrelated, has anyone been on any of BA's 787-9s in economy? Debating booking one to SJC in January; would be esp. interested in anyone who can compare it to their A380s.

 

[Techniquest]

If BA 787-9s are anything like Norwegian's lot, I wouldn't do it unless I was in Premium Economy or better. Do NOT do it in normal Economy seats!