Aviation Discussion

[pompeyfan]

Excuse me for just being someone slightly interested in air travel and only just learning the lingo, but I'd like to chip in.

During May I flew twice each way between BOH-PMI, once on TOM and once on FR, and found Bournemouth reasonably pleasant, however the olive cafe was massively understaffed and over priced, even for being airside. Security also took its time, especially on the first flight as there was also one to Malaga at the same time.

On both occasions it was quite a steep take off from BOH, but very shallow from PMI, decent was also similar into each airport, I would imagine this is due to noise issues?

I know BOH is long enough to handle most types of aircraft, but even landing in a 738 the braking both times seemed very very violent.... Is this perhaps to save time so they don't miss a taxiway or something?

 

[atillathehunn]

Nope, but there's no such thing as a free lunch.....

It's all hypothetical anyway. I wish there was the choice of BA direct to holiday destinations in Europe, but unless you're flying from one of the London airports or willing to connect, BA is out of the question sadly.

BA have trialled charter flights from a few non-traditional airports recently. Over the winter Salzburg flights operated from Glasgow on BA metal and BA flight numbers, the plane having worked up a scheduled flight from LHR.

BA are now using Stansted over the weekend to holiday destinations to keep their Embraer fleet employed while LCY shuts down. While still London, they are branching a bit.

The route coverage on the LCCs out of regional airports is just too thick for BA to get in on. The range of destinations from Liverpool, Manchester, and Leeds-Bradford is now quite shocking, even if some are only a couple of times a week.
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Excuse me for just being someone slightly interested in air travel and only just learning the lingo, but I'd like to chip in.

During May I flew twice each way between BOH-PMI, once on TOM and once on FR, and found Bournemouth reasonably pleasant, however the olive cafe was massively understaffed and over priced, even for being airside. Security also took its time, especially on the first flight as there was also one to Malaga at the same time.

On both occasions it was quite a steep take off from BOH, but very shallow from PMI, decent was also similar into each airport, I would imagine this is due to noise issues?

I know BOH is long enough to handle most types of aircraft, but even landing in a 738 the braking both times seemed very very violent.... Is this perhaps to save time so they don't miss a taxiway or something?

Take off angles depend on a number of factors. Noise probably one of them. JWA in California has, I believe, the steepest angle out due to noise contraints. Could be that BOH has a similar restriction. BOH surprisingly large but handy as it handles diversions from the London airports when they have issues.
As for the braking - no idea. Could just be they wanted to take the taxi way closest to the terminal to cut down on taxi time and fuel spend on the ground? http://www.boeing.com/resources/boeingdotcom/commercial/noise/bournemouth.html - this link says no reverse thrust braking allowed, so it could be you felt the friction brakes a lot more than usual due to this.

Leaving Phnom Penh in a wide body is an experience. The runway is quite short, so it's spool up with brakes on, and when the engines are champing at the bit it's chocks away and up into the sky.

The landing into Entebbe and Kisumu are a bit daunting. It's a long slow dawdle in over Lake Victoria, with the water getting closer, hippos looking up at you and the plane rocking around in the warm air. Felt a bit green coming into EBB the other day in the Dash 8 from Addis, stormy all the way and a rocky approach over the Lake - I'm booking onto their 757 flight from now on!

 

[WestCoast]

I remember when BA had a hub at BHX which was a terminal to the left if you were standing outside the front of the Airport. Mind you it was mainly Domestic Flights even then. BA became BA Connect and then Flybe which gave up the exclusive hub and the Airport morphed from "two" terminals to one.

Still at least it's got a smoking area post-security

Ah yes, "Birmingham Eurohub". I vaguely recall the BA 737s and CRJs(?) that used to serve it, and later on an airline called Duo. As I remember it became Terminal 2 and then was merged with the other terminal not all that long ago.

It's that part of the terminal with the wood effect flooring that seems to exclusively handle Flybe and Ryanair now isn't it?
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I know BOH is long enough to handle most types of aircraft, but even landing in a 738 the braking both times seemed very very violent.... Is this perhaps to save time so they don't miss a taxiway or something?

I tend to find the 738 is quite "firm" on landing regardless of where it's being landed.
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BA have trialled charter flights from a few non-traditional airports recently. Over the winter Salzburg flights operated from Glasgow on BA metal and BA flight numbers, the plane having worked up a scheduled flight from LHR.

BA are now using Stansted over the weekend to holiday destinations to keep their Embraer fleet employed while LCY shuts down. While still London, they are branching a bit.

The route coverage on the LCCs out of regional airports is just too thick for BA to get in on. The range of destinations from Liverpool, Manchester, and Leeds-Bradford is now quite shocking, even if some are only a couple of times a week.

Yes, you tend to see BA Cityflyer doing some unusual things at the weekend with the Embraer fleet at weekends when London City closes. The E190s are very spacious, more so than the Airbus fleet. I wouldn't mind booking a package holiday and them being revealed as the operator!
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The landing into Entebbe and Kisumu are a bit daunting. It's a long slow dawdle in over Lake Victoria, with the water getting closer, hippos looking up at you and the plane rocking around in the warm air. Felt a bit green coming into EBB the other day in the Dash 8 from Addis, stormy all the way and a rocky approach over the Lake - I'm booking onto their 757 flight from now on!

I don't think bumpy approaches and the Dash 8 mix very well...

 

[atillathehunn]

The Embraer fleet is quite lovely. I try and sneak in flights on them where I can in Europe. 2+2 seating, and the catering out of LCY is worlds apart!

I don't seem to have the best of luck with the Dash 8s. Landed sideways more often than I care to think at AMS.

Thankfully the rainy season has now finished, but when it comes back round, I'm booking jets. I was under the impression ET kept their props for domestic run around, but apparently EBB still gets one!

 

[pompeyfan]

Thanks for the answer. I wonder why reverse thrust is frowned upon.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Thanks for the answer. I wonder why reverse thrust is frowned upon.

I'd guess it's to do with noise restrictions at the airport.

 

[atillathehunn]

The document I linked to above focuses very much on noise abatement. The use of APU is frowned upon, and the airport opening hours are quite restrictive as well.

I would imagine Arctic Troll is correct that this is another noise abatement feature.

Which makes sense, even a 738 makes quite a racket, so if you can limit the noise to 50% of the operations, that's a big noise saving.

 

[Bald Rick]

Finnair have run an A350 into LHR on a few Mondays recently on the AY831/832 rotation. Although today it an A340!

 

[atillathehunn]

Finnair have run an A350 into LHR on a few Mondays recently on the AY831/832 rotation. Although today it an A340!

There's an interesting and ecclectic selection of aircraft on that route! From an A321 through to A340 with an A350 in for good measure.

 

[WestCoast]

Just waiting to pick up family at Liverpool Airport and a McDonnell Douglas MD-82 has just arrived on what I believe is the Blue Air flight from Bacau (Romania?). Unsure who the actual operator of the aircraft is, as from wiki the airline doesn't have any MD82s. However, I am pretty sure the type is almost extinct in Europe, so a rare sight indeed.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Just waiting to pick up family at Liverpool Airport and a McDonnell Douglas MD-82 has just arrived on what I believe is the Blue Air flight from Bacau (Romania?). Unsure who the actual operator of the aircraft is, as from wiki the airline doesn't have any MD82s. However, I am pretty sure the type is almost extinct in Europe, so a rare sight indeed.

A quick check on Plane Finder reveals it to be LZ-DEO, a 35 year old aircraft forming the one and only member of the fleet belonging to ALK Airlines aka Air Lubo. This is a new start-up (May 2016) based in Bulgaria.

 

[AlterEgo]

Just waiting to pick up family at Liverpool Airport and a McDonnell Douglas MD-82 has just arrived on what I believe is the Blue Air flight from Bacau (Romania?). Unsure who the actual operator of the aircraft is, as from wiki the airline doesn't have any MD82s. However, I am pretty sure the type is almost extinct in Europe, so a rare sight indeed.

Meridiana have a few. They sometimes operate LGW-OLB.
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Finnair have run an A350 into LHR on a few Mondays recently on the AY831/832 rotation. Although today it an A340!

This is a semi-regular occurrence! I'm using another Avios redemption this winter on the 832, in Business.

 

[atillathehunn]

A quick check on Plane Finder reveals it to be LZ-DEO, a 35 year old aircraft forming the one and only member of the fleet belonging to ALK Airlines aka Air Lubo. This is a new start-up (May 2016) based in Bulgaria.

Their website is almost completely devoid of information, but they seem to provide their 2 aircraft for charter, with the MD82 being their only jet. I assume on lease to Blue Air for the summer?

And the flight time for that Bacau flight are awful. Definition of the Red Eye.

 

[WestCoast]

A quick check on Plane Finder reveals it to be LZ-DEO, a 35 year old aircraft forming the one and only member of the fleet belonging to ALK Airlines aka Air Lubo. This is a new start-up (May 2016) based in Bulgaria.

Their website is almost completely devoid of information, but they seem to provide their 2 aircraft for charter, with the MD82 being their only jet. I assume on lease to Blue Air for the summer?

And the flight time for that Bacau flight are awful. Definition of the Red Eye.

Interesting stuff, but great to see an MD82 flying for a European low cost airline in 2016! Some of these little charter airlines have some real gems, I flew on a BH Air Tupolev TU-154 from Manchester to Varna in 2002 which was quite an experience...

Jet2 have got a fair amount of leased in aircraft this summer, seen Titan Airways, Primera Air(?) and others flying for them out of Manchester.

You're right about the time on the Liverpool - Bacau flight, certainly making full use of the aircraft on that one.

 

[atillathehunn]

Interesting stuff, but great to see an MD82 flying for a European low cost airline in 2016! Some of these little charter airlines have some real gems, I flew on a BH Air Tupolev TU-154 from Manchester to Varna in 2002 which was quite an experience...

Jet2 have got a fair amount of leased in aircraft this summer, seen Titan Airways, Primera Air(?) and others flying for them out of Manchester.

You're right about the time on the Liverpool - Bacau flight, certainly making full use of the aircraft on that one.

I imagine the TU-154 was quite good fun! Not to mention a Brucey bonus at the beginning of a holiday!

Quite a few airlines struggling to cover this season. BA are wet leading 737s from Danish airline Jettime to cover quite a few flights. Titan must be printing money, they've covered easy jet and BA this year. I'm sure I saw a EuroAtlantic 767 performing a jet2 flight the other day on flightradar.

Though if the £ stays this low against the € through the holiday booking season for 2017 they may find they need less cover!

 

[stut]

I imagine the TU-154 was quite good fun! Not to mention a Brucey bonus at the beginning of a holiday!

Yes indeed! I had a similar experience on Balkan Bulgarian (Glasgow to Varna in this case) in the 80s.

 

[atillathehunn]

I feel quite left out now...

Though I do have a flight on a Cessna Caravan coming up out to the rainforest. Will be an experience if the wild storm last night is anything to go by...

 

[fowler9]

Blue Air have had a few oddities flying out of Liverpool recently. An MD82 though! That is quite a sighting. Am hoping to fly with them soon.

 

[atillathehunn]

Blue Air have had a few oddities flying out of Liverpool recently. An MD82 though! That is quite a sighting. Am hoping to fly with them soon.

Good to have a man on the ground, fowler9.

What have Blue air been using?

I've managed to avoid Blue when going to Romania, but my brother wasn't so lucky. His seat back collapsed before take off, but there was nothing they could do, so he had to sit without a seat back for the duration of the flight to Bucharest from the UK. The words 'never again' were bandied around a lot that day.

 

[fowler9]

Good to have a man on the ground, fowler9.

What have Blue air been using?

I've managed to avoid Blue when going to Romania, but my brother wasn't so lucky. His seat back collapsed before take off, but there was nothing they could do, so he had to sit without a seat back for the duration of the flight to Bucharest from the UK. The words 'never again' were bandied around a lot that day.

A few random Airbus A320's have turned up and some pretty old 737-300's. Off the top of my head I can't recall where they got them from. That said Czech Airline have had a few randoms turn up on their Liverpool to Prague service of late. Yesterday there was a full emergency at Liverpool with a 146 flying from Dublin to Dusseldorf. Sadly I can't recall who's it was off the top of my head yet again. My sis works for an airline flying out of Liverpool so I sometimes hear some stories.

Was up in Lytham staying with a mate the other day and saw the BAe Typhoon that was doing the Fairford display getting some practice in out of Warton.

Another mate is flying back to Australia on a Royal Brunei 787 as we speak, not long taken off. He really wasn't impressed on the way over here. Back to Emirates, Qantas or Etihad next time I believe. Ha ha.

 

[atillathehunn]

A few random Airbus A320's have turned up and some pretty old 737-300's. Off the top of my head I can't recall where they got them from. That said Czech Airline have had a few randoms turn up on their Liverpool to Prague service of late. Yesterday there was a full emergency at Liverpool with a 146 flying from Dublin to Dusseldorf. Sadly I can't recall who's it was off the top of my head yet again. My sis works for an airline flying out of Liverpool so I sometimes hear some stories.

Was up in Lytham staying with a mate the other day and saw the BAe Typhoon that was doing the Fairford display getting some practice in out of Warton.

Another mate is flying back to Australia on a Royal Brunei 787 as we speak, not long taken off. He really wasn't impressed on the way over here. Back to Emirates, Qantas or Etihad next time I believe. Ha ha.

A motley collection. I'll stick to other carriers if I need to go to Romania again! It's good to see LPL getting more destinations, though, even though serviced by knackered 737s.

146 out of Dublin sounds like it would be Citijet. Any idea what the emergency was?

Never done Royal Brunei, though I heard it wasn't too bad, but I believe the booze policy is a deal breaker.

There's an excellent sale on at the moment from ARN to SYD through BA, for about £379 at the moment. Also valid to AKL. It allows for two free stopovers. The kangaroo route via HKG would be lovely, and would allow a day or so sightseeing in Hong Kong.

 

[fowler9]

A motley collection. I'll stick to other carriers if I need to go to Romania again! It's good to see LPL getting more destinations, though, even though serviced by knackered 737s.

146 out of Dublin sounds like it would be Citijet. Any idea what the emergency was?

Never done Royal Brunei, though I heard it wasn't too bad, but I believe the booze policy is a deal breaker.

There's an excellent sale on at the moment from ARN to SYD through BA, for about £379 at the moment. Also valid to AKL. It allows for two free stopovers. The kangaroo route via HKG would be lovely, and would allow a day or so sightseeing in Hong Kong.

My mate didn't really rate Royal Brunei. He is on his way from Brunei to Melbourne as we speak on a 787. He said the food was poor and there were about 5 films which sounds odd. He has flown from Oz to the UK with various airlines a few times so I'll have to trust his opinion.

I flew UK to Oz via Hong Kong with a week stopover on my round the world trip, apologies as I have probably said this before. Hong Kong was amazing, Chek Lap Kok is a brilliant airport.

I believe the 146 at Liverpool had a complete electrical failure, not sure if the ram air turbine was deployed or even if the 146's have one. Seems the problem was fixed quite quickly.
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Just seen some good photos of a Tornado from RAF Marham doing a missed approach at Liverpool this afternoon (Think I heard it). Special tail markings with pictures of the aircraft that have been based there.

 

[phoenixcronin]

What do people think about the chances of a third runway at Heathrow?

 

[Crawley Ben]

What do people think about the chances of a third runway at Heathrow?

With Theresa May as our new PM I should think that the chances of LHR getting a third runway are dead & buried.

Ben

 

[Techniquest]

As good a chance as an HST getting nitros installed...

 

[fowler9]

As good a chance as an HST getting nitros installed...

A Valenta with NOS. Ace. The current ones sound like busses.

 

[atillathehunn]

My mate didn't really rate Royal Brunei. He is on his way from Brunei to Melbourne as we speak on a 787. He said the food was poor and there were about 5 films which sounds odd. He has flown from Oz to the UK with various airlines a few times so I'll have to trust his opinion.

I flew UK to Oz via Hong Kong with a week stopover on my round the world trip, apologies as I have probably said this before. Hong Kong was amazing, Chek Lap Kok is a brilliant airport.

I believe the 146 at Liverpool had a complete electrical failure, not sure if the ram air turbine was deployed or even if the 146's have one. Seems the problem was fixed quite quickly.
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Just seen some good photos of a Tornado from RAF Marham doing a missed approach at Liverpool this afternoon (Think I heard it). Special tail markings with pictures of the aircraft that have been based there.

Fair enough. It's only available from London, so I think for now I'm safe avoiding them. The 787 though really is a great aircraft, absolutely ruined by the interior choices. I'm told the A350 is a much better aircraft in that regard. I'm already dreading the next 787 flight in a few weeks.

Hong Kong is a very convenient airport, despite the size. The only niggle was their handling of bus gates. Our Dragonair A330 was boarded via a bus gate. And only one bus was provided. We were sitting on that plane for a long, long time.
Immigration leaving Hong Kong though was not terribly speedy.

HK is an amazing city as well. One of my favourites globally.

As for LHR - not a chance.

 

[fowler9]

Fair enough. It's only available from London, so I think for now I'm safe avoiding them. The 787 though really is a great aircraft, absolutely ruined by the interior choices. I'm told the A350 is a much better aircraft in that regard. I'm already dreading the next 787 flight in a few weeks.

Hong Kong is a very convenient airport, despite the size. The only niggle was their handling of bus gates. Our Dragonair A330 was boarded via a bus gate. And only one bus was provided. We were sitting on that plane for a long, long time.
Immigration leaving Hong Kong though was not terribly speedy.

HK is an amazing city as well. One of my favourites globally.

As for LHR - not a chance.

Yeah, the 787 should be great. Ah well. Heard good things about the A350 though.

Immigration at Hong Kong was a bit of a mare, I think I was high on adrenaline though. Ha ha. Leaving was fine though, security was a breeze. Plus we had an airbridge on to our Qantas 747. The smoking room was a bit grim though, not going to moan since it is my own filthy habit, cracking view of the runway and the apron from it though. .
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We had RAF Hercules ZH880 at Liverpool yesterday. Very nice colour scheme.

 

[atillathehunn]

Yeah, the 787 should be great. Ah well. Heard good things about the A350 though.

Immigration at Hong Kong was a bit of a mare, I think I was high on adrenaline though. Ha ha. Leaving was fine though, security was a breeze. Plus we had an airbridge on to our Qantas 747. The smoking room was a bit grim though, not going to moan since it is my own filthy habit, cracking view of the runway and the apron from it though. .
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We had RAF Hercules ZH880 at Liverpool yesterday. Very nice colour scheme.

Trying to wangle a trip on the Ethiopian A350 at the moment - got to justify the expense of going the long way round.

Asia seems to either completely win or completely lose on airports. There seems to be no middle ground. Changi, HKG, even PNH are good airports. BKK, no the other hand, is certainly less than ideal.

Cannot possibly be worse than those gross smoking cubicles in Frankfurt?? I don't smoke, but went in there with a friend while in transit and it was truly the worst environment I've been in.

Has Liverpool always had such military traffic? Since Easyjet ditched the route I used to use I've only arrived there once from DUB and saw nothing interesting!

 

[fowler9]

Never flown to Frankfurt but am hoping to do the LAN 787 in the near future, I have a cousin who lives in Frankfurt and two friends in Spain so will hopefully hook up with them in Madrid, if not I will jump the train to Irun where they live. (My cousin in Frankfurt I will see there of course, ha ha).

JLA gets a fair bit of military traffic. I believe the pilots quite like flying down the river past the city centre. I don't think there is anywhere else in the country they can regularly fly low level past a city centre. We get a fair few Hawks, Tornados and the odd Typhoon going over. Actually saw 2 F15's circling over North Wales from my desk the other week. Also last year the Typhoon display aircraft for the Southport Airshow were based at JLA. I can see the planes taking off from my desk so that was pretty cool.
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Also the Trans Atlantic flights out of Manchester frequently come over South Liverpool so if the weather is clear we get very clearly visible Heavies at about 10 to 15000 feet depending on the route. Shame Virgin no longer use A340-600's to Atlanta. Mostly A330-300's now. Not as much fun.