Avanti reduced timetable – passenger experiences

[XAM2175]

... Realtimetrains was next to useless. ...

... I did what experienced rail enthusiasts do and looked for the likely platform number on Realtimetrains. It got it wrong and had been next to useless throughout about the day's cancellations. ...

For the avoidance of doubt, RTT shouldn't be expected to work as normal during times of disruption because of the way National Rail provides the data. There's a bit more in the dedicated thread:

RealTimeTrains website

With Chiltern, units rarely get turned, they only do if they end up on a Marylebone - banbury via Oxford or the other way round There is also an ECS from Moor St to Stratford upon Avon that goes on to form the Stratford - Leamington shuttle. I do not know the full diagram so maybe the...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[jfollows]

For the avoidance of doubt, RTT shouldn't be expected to work as normal during times of disruption because of the way National Rail provides the data. There's a bit more in the dedicated thread:

RealTimeTrains website

With Chiltern, units rarely get turned, they only do if they end up on a Marylebone - banbury via Oxford or the other way round There is also an ECS from Moor St to Stratford upon Avon that goes on to form the Stratford - Leamington shuttle. I do not know the full diagram so maybe the...

www.railforums.co.uk

I agree, use Open Train Times or Traksy to display the station and find the headcode of the train you're interested in, it'll be 1Fxx if it's a Liverpool service, this is an easier and better way to be sure of the platform. Nothing wrong with RTT but it's necessary to understand its limitations too.
RTT is initially fed information on what's planned to happen, which is all well and good when things aren't going wrong, and RTT replaces the information which what's actually happening when it can, but its information on planned platform usage at Euston (for example) should not be relied upon. Sources such as Open Train Times will show actual platform occupation taken from live systems. RTT is an excellent resource and delivers lots of useful information and I find it invaluable, but I don't use it for looking up platforms of Euston departures. I know that London-Manchester via Wilmslow services are 1Hyy with yy>=50 (today they're 9Hyy because they're going via Birmingham of course!), so it's relatively easy to identify them on live displays of actual usage.

 

[Rail Ranger]

On tuesday we did wigan to waverley on the pride train and it was half empty despite tickets not being available nice refit and cordless phone charging. The return on friday about 7pm was full and no tickets available the train before us was cancelled and the one after a bus getting in at 6.30 am .

Surely tickets are still available in terms of being able to buy an Off-Peak Return from a ticket office? It seems that the travelling public are being deliberately misled.

 

[TUC]

I do hope lots of people break Avanti's attempts to enforce seart reservations by buying open tickets, with a seat reservation if needed to get through the system, and then deliberately travelling on a different train.

 

[station_road]

I do hope lots of people break Avanti's attempts to enforce seart reservations by buying open tickets, with a seat reservation if needed to get through the system, and then deliberately travelling on a different train.

Why would you want people to do that? - that would then stop people being able to buy tickets on the trains with seat reservations that won't be used, and make other trains fuller. The impact of that will be on passengers.

 

[louis97]

I was booked on the 1907 EUS-LIV return but, in mid-afternoon, the National Rail app showed this as cancelled, along with the 1810 EUS-CTR and several other trains out of EUS about between 1800 and 1930. So I made sure I got out of Brisbane Road the second the final whistle went and dashed back to EUS to catch the 1807 EUS-LIV. Anticipating this would be very overcrowded with the usual Le Mans scramble when the gate opened, I did what experienced rail enthusiasts do and looked for the likely platform number on Realtimetrains. It got it wrong and had been next to useless throughout about the day's cancellations. To exacerbate matters, the 1807 put in an extra stop at MKC, presumably as the CTR train had been cancelled. Whether MKC passengers should have been asked to travel on a West Midlands train instead is an interesting debate.

Out of interest which platform did Realtime Trains send you to for the 1807? The train left from its booked platform in the timetable, so can't see how you'd have ended up on the wrong platform. Realtime Trains would have confirmed the platform with an "at platform" indication from 17:37:34. There was nothing in the data to suggest anything other than the correct platform would have been displayed.

If you can offer some more details, can look into this more.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

They will still exist, but not at 12 weeks, it will be 8 at best. Your money your choice.

Depending if the Timetable Reform Programme gets agreed or not, on which we should hear more about towards the end of this month.

 

[The Planner]

Depending if the Timetable Reform Programme gets agreed or not, on which we should hear more about towards the end of this month.

Indeed BTPF (better timetables for passenger and freight). Jury is still out on whether it gets signed off.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

Out of interest which platform did Realtime Trains send you to for the 1807? The train left from its booked platform in the timetable, so can't see how you'd have ended up on the wrong platform. Realtime Trains would have confirmed the platform with an "at platform" indication from 17:37:34. There was nothing in the data to suggest anything other than the correct platform would have been displayed.

If you can offer some more details, can look into this more.

I think RTT said platform 11 (and later than 17:37). The train left from platform 14. In fact, RTT still shows P11 when you search for yesterday's trains until you click on the actual working when it changes to P14.

And sorry about using official three letter station codes instead of proper station names.

I'm not 100% sure whether the train was standing room only as I dived straight into coach U during the Le Mans scramble as coaches A,B,D-F were showing on the information boards as fully reserved. Coach U was full but I can't comment on the rest of standard class. However large numbers did disembark at Liverpool suggesting the train was indeed chocker.

 

[Confused52]

My son is trying to get to a pre-booked concert in London on Sunday 11 Dec. He is struggling because he can see that weekend tickets are only being out on sale for next Sunday 23 Oct and Mondays to Fridays to 9th Dec (It has been only a week ahead at Weekends for three weeks now, he says). When he tries to buy tickets the booking site just refuses saying the timetables aren't confirmed. He is convinced that means there will be no trains. He is not used to the idea that the railway is not organised for the benefit of its customers.

The kinder approach would be to stop making all of the trains reservation only and warn folks that services may be full. Then he would go early and wait for a service he could get on. Instead of that approach, as he still can't book a ticket, he is worried that when the reservations are released. he will not get one in time.

Ordinary passengers who aren't regulars don't realise that the mandatory reservation is probably just a ruse and that when the train is full they are hardly ever enforced. He doesn't think he can just get an off-peak ticket and get the reservations later at a station, he just doesn't have that experience. Designing systems that rely on passengers being regulars who understand the foibles of it is perhaps alright for a system which is determined to be in perpetual decline. However, it does not seem to be a satisfactory way to run the railway.

 

[TUC]

Why would you want people to do that? - that would then stop people being able to buy tickets on the trains with seat reservations that won't be used, and make other trains fuller. The impact of that will be on passengers.

What else do you expect? For us just to live with Avanti's deceitful, misleading approaches? The system needs pushing to breaking point so that it is unworkable for Avanti.

 

[Vespa]

I didn't have a good experience both ways to Edinburgh from Wigan cancellations both trains there and back, I've put in a delay repay claim and just waiting out to see what they say and appeal it if they turn it down.

 

[Pacef8]

So looking at liverpool to euston in november on a saturday and they say no seats available ? How do you get around that ?

 

[Rail Ranger]

So looking at liverpool to euston in november on a saturday and they say no seats available ? How do you get around that ?

Just buy an Off-Peak Return for the date you want from a ticket office? And try to reserve a seat later if you want to?

 

[Watershed]

Just buy an Off-Peak Return for the date you want from a ticket office? And try to reserve a seat later if you want to?

Or use a website that lets you exclude Avanti services and select an Off-Peak Return there.

 

[Pacef8]

I really don't want to spend 5 hours on a slow service with multiple stops though .

 

[Watershed]

I really don't want to spend 5 hours on a slow service with multiple stops though .

You can buy an Any Permitted Off-Peak Return using the above methods and then use it on an Avanti service. It's a walk-up ticket so it's not tied to the trains you select when booking.

The stuff they've done with reservations is purely there to prevent people from selecting their trains until they have uploaded the timetable they intend to run.

 

[Birmingham]

I fear anyone suggesting buying even an Off-Peak Return now for future travel is also somewhat missing the mark. As walk-up tickets, they can be bought on the day of travel for the exact same price — so you may as well keep an eye out for reservations for advance tickets to be released if convenient, with a fallback of buying an Off-Peak Return on the day.

 

[Kite159]

Don't buy the off-peak return until tickets do go on sale, just in case advance fares undercut the off-peak return, or plans change.

It will be £98.10 [any permitted fare] today, tomorrow & on the day you travel

 

[Pacef8]

Nightmare

 

[Rail Ranger]

The great thing about an Off-Peak Return between Liverpool and Euston is that you are not tied to particular trains and can use any train on a Friday, Saturday or Sunday. Also if you buy one in advance and decide not to travel you can get a refund (unlike with Advance fares). An admin fee may be charged.

 

[Watershed]

The great thing about an Off-Peak Return is that you are not tied to particular trains and can use any train on a Friday, Saturday or Sunday. Also if you buy one in advance and decide not to travel unless things have changed recently you can get a full refund (unlike with Advance fares).

Retailers are allowed to charge admin fees of up to £10 on your refund, though. Not all retailers charge the same fee and some charge nothing at all (e.g. Railsmartr, GTR, SE).

 

[Rail Ranger]

Would the ticket office where you bought the original ticket charge an admin fee on a refund of an Off-Peak Return before the date of travel?

 

[Watershed]

Would the ticket office where you bought the original ticket charge an admin fee on a refund of an Off-Peak Return before the date of travel?

Yes, unless you return it quickly (probably within a few hours) such that it can be non-issued. Chiltern ticket offices charge a £5 admin fee rather than the £10 charged by most TOCs/retailers.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

One annoyance about buying Advance, or even flexible, tickets from the Wirral to London (via Liverpool) online in the week before departure is you can't pick these up from Merseyrail stations. Even though most Merseyrail stations are staffed and sell through tickets to London, they will not print out tickets and reservations bought on the internet. And Merseyrail does not recognize Avanti e-tickets. I live in Ellesmere Port and would have to travel to Liverpool or Chester at my own expense to pick up my ticket. Fares from Merseyrail stations to London are very similar to fares from Liverpool or Chester meaning you get your local connecting journey for free - if you have your ticket in hand.

 

[Watershed]

One annoyance about buying Advance, or even flexible, tickets from the Wirral to London (via Liverpool) online in the week before departure is you can't pick these up from Merseyrail stations. Even though most Merseyrail stations are staffed and sell through tickets to London, they will not print out tickets and reservations bought on the internet. And Merseyrail does not recognize Avanti e-tickets. I live in Ellesmere Port and would have to travel to Liverpool or Chester at my own expense to pick up my ticket. Fares from Merseyrail stations to London are very similar to fares from Liverpool or Chester meaning you get your local connecting journey for free - if you have your ticket in hand.

Merseyrail ticket offices do now print ToD bookings - bringing them, kicking and screaming, into the 20th Century!

Merseyrail object to the enabling of e-tickets on flows that are likely to be used on their services, but there are still circumstances where e-tickets will be valid on their services - e.g. you could decide to use a Liverpool Stations-Manchester Station Any Permitted e-ticket from Liverpool Central, via Aigburth, to Liverpool South Parkway and then onwards via the CLC.

 

[louis97]

I think RTT said platform 11 (and later than 17:37). The train left from platform 14. In fact, RTT still shows P11 when you search for yesterday's trains until you click on the actual working when it changes to P14.

That's really interesting, have you got a print screen of this? So I can see what view you're using to get that result.

 

[Rail Ranger]

I think it is very bad that websites (including the National Rail website) show "there are no tickets available for this journey" for some Avanti services when walk up tickets can still be purchased which are valid on those services. The DfT must have given their approval for this. It gives a wholly false impression to the travelling public, who will think those trains are "full" (surely not possible on what is still a walk on railway) and not travel. I have heard of trains where this message is shown online but which then run half empty. Madness.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

That's really interesting, have you got a print screen of this? So I can see what view you're using to get that result.

This is what it is showing now. I don't remember seeing 14 in the Pl column on Saturday. Now with hindsight, I think I might have mistaken the last column as the platform rather than the number of coaches. Silly me.



== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Oct 2022 ==

Merseyrail ticket offices do now print ToD bookings - bringing them, kicking and screaming, into the 20th Century!

Merseyrail object to the enabling of e-tickets on flows that are likely to be used on their services, but there are still circumstances where e-tickets will be valid on their services - e.g. you could decide to use a Liverpool Stations-Manchester Station Any Permitted e-ticket from Liverpool Central, via Aigburth, to Liverpool South Parkway and then onwards via the CLC.

The first bit is good news and long overdue

 

[jfollows]

Now with hindsight, I think I might have mistaken the last column as the platform rather than the number of coaches. Silly me.

You're not the only one, I make this mistake from time to time as well. It's not unclear, it's just that I don't look properly!