Availability of train toilets

[A-driver]

Sorry but there is a huge difference between catering for mobility issues and a weak bladder. If you can't walk/have impaired mobility then you can't do much to get around it.

If you have a weak bladder then you can plan your day around that and take I to account a lack of train toilets-plan a break in your journey at a station with facilities.


If you are diabetic you will take food with you for a long journey-or should the railway provide food etc aswell for diabetics?

As I keep saying, this thread has become people trying to create problems where none lie. The toiletless trains are fine, very very few people have an issue with the lack of facilities so why spend loads trying to fix a non existant problem?!

 

[trainophile]

I do think the toilet (or lack of) situation is inconvenient, if you'll forgive the pun, to infrequent travellers who don't know what to expect. Many assume that all trains have facilities, and it comes as an unpleasant shock to them (especially those who like their alcohol!) to find out this isn't always the case.

Only the other day I overheard a couple waiting at a Merseyrail station debating whether to use the station facilities, and one said "I'll go on the train". I confessed my unintended eavesdrop, and put them right on the fact that there are no toilets on Merseyrail trains.

As for weak bladders, I am like a tap with a dodgy washer in the early morning, hence preferring to travel by train than by car (althought obviously not a Merseyrail train ), but can easily go six hours in the afternoon without even thinking about needing the loo. There's no medical condition that I'm aware of, it's just the way I am. Hyperactive kidneys!

 

[Starmill]

I've always thought that odd about Merseyrail. I can't think of any other trains 'up north' that don't have toilets!?

 

[yorksrob]

As I keep saying, this thread has become people trying to create problems where none lie. The toiletless trains are fine, very very few people have an issue with the lack of facilities so why spend loads trying to fix a non existant problem?!

You're the one creating problems.

We have lots of suburban routes that have had trains with toilets in introduced over the past few years, and I believe that this is a sign of progress (a far more important sign of progress than the introduction of sliding doors and other such nonsense).

The fact that supposedly "very few" people have an issue with a lack of facilities (even though those that do have a problem are more likely to cross their legs rather than wet themselves in public - and this is supposedly a sign of a satisfied travelling public) does not change the fact that some people do.

 

[defitzi]

After hearing a few stories of people being on trains with toilets that are locked out of use, I was wondering whether this is a big and frequent problem around the network, or whether problems are relatively few and far between.

This is more of an issue these days as trains have fewer onboard toilets than they used to: Mark 1, 2 and 3 carriages have two per carriage in most cases (excluding catering vehicles and carriages with guard's accommodation). By comparison, most four coach trains in London only have two toilets, so a toilet failure could be a big problem.

Now, I haven't got the biggest bladder in the world so it would worry me if I was getting on a train for a long journey to find that all of the toilets were out of use, particularly when many stations don't have toilets and some that do have limited opening hours. At least I would be able to wait until I got to a toilet- some passengers, such as those who with medical conditions, young children and the elderly, might not be so fortunate.

So, what I was wondering is as follows:

• How frequently do toilets fail on trains?
• Are there particular classes of train that are worse for toilet failures than others?
• Do some TOCs suffer from toilet failures more frequently than others?
• Are toilet failures prone to certain routes? (London Midland's Euston to Crewe springs to mind)
• As a passenger, what are your rights in this situation?

Thanks

Ryan

anyone know what passengers rights can on get off at a station and catch the next train (if there is one suitable). I have KNOWN staff lock toilets and refuse to open them, ( a very common practice among coach drivers).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You're the one creating problems.

We have lots of suburban routes that have had trains with toilets in introduced over the past few years, and I believe that this is a sign of progress (a far more important sign of progress than the introduction of sliding doors and other such nonsense).

The fact that supposedly "very few" people have an issue with a lack of facilities (even though those that do have a problem are more likely to cross their legs rather than **** themselves in public - and this is supposedly a sign of a satisfied travelling public) does not change the fact that some people do.

obviously there are lots of selfish people who have no problem with a lack of toilet availability ( including some here) but there are very many for whom denial of toilet facilities is agonising and even medically dangerous. I travel by train because trains can be expected to have toilets with a decent space rather than coaches with tiny toilets often locked by the driver even though the coach is often 70 percent cheaper Do passengers have a right to a toilet? what happens if they MUST get off the train to seek relief and the guard inspector whoever demands a new fare when the journey is resumed on another train ..I was surcharged £240...almost a week's pension when that happened.

 

[Wikipedia]

Happened today with me actually! Boarded the 1411 from Malton (MLT) intending to get to Leeds (LDS) on the 5th. Standard toilet locked out of use (not sure why!) Everyone just started walking through 1st class to get to the disabled toilet (guard didn't seem to care). On approach to York we are informed the train is terminating and a replacement train is being provided for onward travel to LDS and Liverpool Lime Street. Have to hand it to Trans Pennine the replacement was waiting for us in Platform 4 and we arrived into Platform 2. Can only assume it is because of the toilet!!

 

[defitzi]

Sorry but there is a huge difference between catering for mobility issues and a weak bladder. If you can't walk/have impaired mobility then you can't do much to get around it.

If you have a weak bladder then you can plan your day around that and take I to account a lack of train toilets-plan a break in your journey at a station with facilities.


If you are diabetic you will take food with you for a long journey-or should the railway provide food etc as well for diabetics?

As I keep saying, this thread has become people trying to create problems where none lie. The toilet less trains are fine, very very few people have an issue with the lack of facilities so why spend loads trying to fix a non existent problem?!

not creating problems encountering problems. as a diabetic I have no problem ensuring I have suitable food/drink toilets are a different matter. Are folk like me no longer welcome to seek advice from the very many knowledgeable folk who can and willingly do, give it to us on this site?

 

[A-driver]

not creating problems encountering problems. as a diabetic I have no problem ensuring I have suitable food/drink toilets are a different matter. Are folk like me no longer welcome to seek advice from the very many knowledgeable folk who can and willingly do, give it to us on this site?

I'm not saying you arnt welcome at all, just being realistic. In an ideal world there would BR plenty of toilets on trains which wouldn't break, everyone would get a seat, disruption wouldn't occur, capacity wouldn't be an issue and tickets would cost next to nothing. Plus all disability issues would be addressed.

But this is the real world and there are only soapy disabilities that can be catered for realistically. As I keep saying, most people can go an hour without needing the toilet. If they can't then they need to take steps to ensure they have a comfort break on their journey.

 

[trainophile]

Not everyone boards the train at a station with toilet facilities. If you've had a half hour walk or bus to the station, then 15 minutes wait for your train (having arrived in good time to buy a ticket and/or ensure you don't miss it) then an hour's journey, it's conceivable that this could cause problems for some people, especially in cold weather. If you have to use a bus to get to the station, and your service is only hourly, you might have to wait at the station for a lot longer.

Dehydration prior to travel isn't a good idea, but seems to be the only option for some journeys.

 

[A-driver]

Not everyone boards the train at a station with toilet facilities. If you've had a half hour walk or bus to the station, then 15 minutes wait for your train (having arrived in good time to buy a ticket and/or ensure you don't miss it) then an hour's journey, it's conceivable that this could cause problems for some people, especially in cold weather. If you have to use a bus to get to the station, and your service is only hourly, you might have to wait at the station for a lot longer.

Dehydration prior to travel isn't a good idea, but seems to be the only option for some journeys.

Wow-quite an exaggeration there!

As I keep saying, if this was a real actual problem then something would be done about it but it isn't a problem. We dot have dozens of passengers wetting themselves or running off trains to find a toilet as they are bursting. The current set up is sufficient.

 

[trainophile]

It's not the sort of thing people openly talk about though is it?

It possibly isn't a problem generally, because people usually know what the on-train situation is, and they arrange their journeys accordingly.

My husband likes going to car shows, but I can't go with him because he has to leave home at about 8.00 am, and the shows are often in out-of-the-way places where there are no public loos en route. I'm a bit long in the tooth for squatting behind trees, so I simply don't go with him. That's an example of how the lack of facilities might not cause obvious problems, but nonetheless cause people to have to make travel arrangements that might not be the most suitable for their purpose.

 

[455driver]

Well I reckon all trains should have a (fully stocked) buffet in case I get hungry, oh as some people cant get to the buffet I think there should be a bloke who goes through the train taking orders which he will go to the buffet and get for youy, oh just in case some of the passengers are hard of hearing he will tap them gently on the shoulder (doffing his cap as he does so) to ensure they dont miss out.

ome journeys are quite long so I may need a shave before I get to my destination so I think that all trains should have a little barbers shop as well, oh a long journey with kids can be an ordeal so I think all trains should have a cinema coach as well!

etc etc etc. :roll:

While some suburban routes are over an hour long how many people are actually on the train for more than 30 minutes at a time?
Most who are travelli9ng longer than that will change trains onto a faster service (which 99% of the time will have toilets) at a convenient station, it may surprise you to know that some timetables are actually workied out like that.

Oh if you want to fit toilets to allt rains what are you going to do with the 10-15 people that now cant fit on the train, or what about thew people in the front coach who need to go to the toilet which is in coach 3, do you honestly think it is a viable to make your way through 3 crush loaded coaches to get to the loo? Most of our peak trains are crush loaded and you cant get on through the doors never mind move about once you manage to get on!

 

[yorksrob]

Ok then, do you want a train that is only suitable for the few short suburban routes, or a unit which is suitable for all suburban services and can fill in for longer routes such as Reading and Waterloo?

And I don't regard the provison of toilet facilities as remotely comparable with buffet cars, restaurent cars, cinema cars, disco carriages, on board masseurs pr anything else for that matter

 

[trainophile]

Well I reckon all trains should have a (fully stocked) buffet in case I get hungry Take a sandwich with you, oh as some people cant get to the buffet I think there should be a bloke who goes through the train taking orders which he will go to the buffet and get for youy Take a sandwich with you, oh just in case some of the passengers are hard of hearing he will tap them gently on the shoulder (doffing his cap as he does so) to ensure they dont miss out.

ome journeys are quite long so I may need a shave before I get to my destination Take a battery shaver with you so I think that all trains should have a little barbers shop as well, oh a long journey with kids can be an ordeal so I think all trains should have a cinema coach as well! Take a colouring book with you for younger ones, or a newspaper or magazine for older ones (or heaven forbid, one of those irritating DVD players :roll.

Just off to check out the price and weight of a portaloo!

 

[Aldaniti]

Well I reckon all trains should have a (fully stocked) buffet in case I get hungry, oh as some people cant get to the buffet I think there should be a bloke who goes through the train taking orders which he will go to the buffet and get for youy, oh just in case some of the passengers are hard of hearing he will tap them gently on the shoulder (doffing his cap as he does so) to ensure they dont miss out.

ome journeys are quite long so I may need a shave before I get to my destination so I think that all trains should have a little barbers shop as well, oh a long journey with kids can be an ordeal so I think all trains should have a cinema coach as well!

A silly response to a very real problem I'm afraid. Trainophile, myself and others have tried to explain how a lack of toilets can be a problem for some and a barrier to travelling by train for others. Nothing will be done about it for the reasons others have given. I just hope it doesn't become a problem for you some day.

 

[A-driver]

A silly response to a very real problem I'm afraid. Trainophile, myself and others have tried to explain how a lack of toilets can be a problem for some and a barrier to travelling by train for others. Nothing will be done about it for the reasons others have given. I just hope it doesn't become a problem for you some day.

But as I keep saying, its not a major problem like is being made out and only trains on short journies don't have a toilet. Any healthy person can go an hour and a bit without needing the loo. If you can't then you know you can't and you plan things around that. You can spend loads installing and maintaining toilets plus reduce a trains capacity just incase a traveller gets on with bladder weakness.

 

[yorksrob]

When I was living down that way, 455's used to turn up all too frequently on Reading services. I don't call the outer reaches of that line short by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[A-driver]

When I was living down that way, 455's used to turn up all too frequently on Reading services. I don't call the outer reaches of that line short by any stretch of the imagination.

I may be wrong but I believe reading to Waterloo is about an hour and 15mins? Most reading-London passengers will use FGW anyway as its far quicker but even if you go via SWT an hour and a bit still isn't that long not to need the toilet for!

I feel I'm goin around in circles, perhaps I just have an exceptionally strong bladder but I manage to get by without going to the toilet at least once an hour!

 

[trainophile]

I often go from Southport to Chester, changing from one Merseyrail train to another Merseyrail train at Moorfields. Total journey length one and three quarter hours. There is one Ladies and one Gents toilet at Moorfields, which are a good few minutes walk from either my arrival or departure platform, so I pretty much rule out a "comfort break" until I arrive at Chester. Arguably using the facilities at Moorfields might mean I miss my scheduled connection to Chester, especially if the Ladies was already occupied or there was a queue.

If I was absolutely desperate I think I would continue to Liverpool Central, use the facilities there and catch the next Chester train from there. However this adds 15 minutes onto my scheduled journey, so if I stuck to the timings shown on my booking confirmation I would miss my onward connection. How many people don't know any different and get caught out?

It's a good thing I am allowed to take an earlier departure from Southport, which builds in leeway for such situations. If Southport to Moorfields were "booked train only" on my Advance tickets that would not be practical at all.

Also my scheduled connection at Chester only allows 8 minutes, which is inadequate to visit the loos if (a) I'm dragging luggage around and have to get over the bridge for my departure, and/or (b) there is a queue. As you can't even rely on the train out of Chester having *working* toilets, it could give rise to quite a problem if it wasn't that I always set out from Southport earlier than shown on my booking schedule says.

Then there's the matter of a toiletless train being held up due to an incident, or breaking down... . Bring on the Tena pads!

 

[yorksrob]

I may be wrong but I believe reading to Waterloo is about an hour and 15mins? Most reading-London passengers will use FGW anyway as its far quicker but even if you go via SWT an hour and a bit still isn't that long not to need the toilet for!

I feel I'm goin around in circles, perhaps I just have an exceptionally strong bladder but I manage to get by without going to the toilet at least once an hour!

And I must admit that my concern over train toilet provision may not be unrelated to my taste for strong curries. I fear we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[A-driver]

And I must admit that my concern over train toilet provision may not be unrelated to my taste for strong curries. I fear we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

Well here is a tip, if you a planning a train journey don't have a strong curry before hand. Same as I don't drink stupid amounts of water before setting out on a long journey etc.

 

[455driver]

When I was living down that way, 455's used to turn up all too frequently on Reading services. I don't call the outer reaches of that line short by any stretch of the imagination.

There have been lots of 455s on Readings this week after a quite a few 458s suffered wheelset problems.

So as you lot seem to know more about this "problem" than us that drive (and have been guards) on these services can you explain why we are not getting 100s of complaints every day?

They are trains designed to move the maximum amount of people in the space available over relatively short distances, these people do not travel from one end of the route to the other so are not on the trains for "over an hour", the only people that are are the driver and guard, so while toilets would be a nice to have if the space was available on the trains, it isnt so they are not fitted.

 

[yorksrob]

Ah, now we live in a world where people are used to getting up and going in the car wherever and whenever they want. Are you really suggesting to premium Intercity passengers (who may have a suburban morning connection) that they should structure their eating habits around the "priviledge" of using the train?

 

[A-driver]

There have been lots of 455s on Readings this week after a quite a few 458s suffered wheelset problems.

Well apparently it would be prefered that rather than run the service without a toilet SWT should cancel all reading-Waterloo trains which they can't find a working toilet fitted unit for to cater for those passengers who want to eat a strong sorry before travelling. Everyone who wants to travel can cram onto the remaining trains train which runs ever 3 hours as at least it will have a loo!

I really must be unique with my super strong bladder which allows 2-3hours in the driving cab without wetting myself!

 

[A-driver]

Ah, now we live in a world where people are used to getting up and going in the car wherever and whenever they want. Are you really suggesting to premium Intercity passengers (who may have a suburban morning connection) that they should structure their eating habits around the "priviledge" of using the train?

Yes. If you are going to the cinema, theatre, concert, a long flight, train journey, long motorway journey etc then its probably common sense to think bout how much you eat and drink before starting!

Ad what exactly are premium intercity passengers? Why are they premium? Intercity services have toilets, its just the short distance commuter trains which don't.

 

[455driver]

Ah, now we live in a world where people are used to getting up and going in the car wherever and whenever they want. Are you really suggesting to premium Intercity passengers (who may have a suburban morning connection) that they should structure their eating habits around the "priviledge" of using the train?

My car isnt fitted with a toilet and it gets used for journeys of well over an hour most weeks!

Maybe i should complain to Vauxhall about this monumental oversight!

 

[yorksrob]

Firstly, theatre's, cinema's, passenger planes etc all have toilets. Even mororways have service stations. By premium Intercity passengers, I'm talking about the high paying business traveller from London to the North, but who may start his journey at Ascot travelling for a London connection (or Kingswood perhaps). Are you saying that this traveller should be expected to forego the previous nights curry with his high powered business buddies just because the TOC's replacements for the 455's shouldn't have toilets?

 

[trainophile]

My car isnt fitted with a toilet and it gets used for journeys of well over an hour most weeks!

Maybe i should complain to Vauxhall about this monumental oversight!

As the driver of your car, you have the prerogative of pulling off the road as necessary, stopping at a garage, retail complex, heck even motorway service area! Even if you never have to avail yourself of this luxury, at least you know you can if the need arises.

 

[ryan125hst]

As for weak bladders, I am like a tap with a dodgy washer in the early morning, hence preferring to travel by train than by car (althought obviously not a Merseyrail train ), but can easily go six hours in the afternoon without even thinking about needing the loo. There's no medical condition that I'm aware of, it's just the way I am. Hyperactive kidneys!

Funny that, as i'm the same! I seem to need the toilet often in the morning, but often go four or five hours in the afternoon without going. Strange!

 

[Goatboy]

My car isnt fitted with a toilet and it gets used for journeys of well over an hour most weeks!

Maybe i should complain to Vauxhall about this monumental oversight!

It's also capable of being driven to a toilet whenever you see fit