I forsee real problems when the sprinter classes have to be refurbished with CET's. I'm guessing that it's relatively rare for all the toilets to be out of use on an 8 carriage EMU in the South, but can you imagine the same situation on a 2 carriage train with only one toilet that has run an intensive all day diagram in the North? It will be chaos.
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Availability of train toilets
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In the privatised railway profits come before service. The amount of money creamed off by the TOCs would pay for thousands of toilets.
If your MP is a Tory or LibDem then no point wasting paper, their dogma means 'computer says no'.
And your justification of this sweeping generalisation is ...... what exactly?
martybabes
Member
Can you just imagine-
"We are sorry to announce that due to a toilet problem the 1735 service from <here> to <there> has been cancelled, sorry for any inconvenince caused".
The Daily Mail would have a field day!
Just imagine this:
We are sorry to announce that yet again there are no working toilet on the 1735 service from < here > to < there > because we are simply unable and, quite frankly, unwilling to introduce a toilet servicing capability for the comfort of our fare-paying customers. Hard luck: write to your MP, not us, as we're not interested.
That is nearer the truth.
Coming home on the 2330 from Waterloo a few days ago, I was sat next to the toilet and my fellow passengers decided that the occupant had choked on his vomit and they should break the door down to save him. This got him out, the occupant claiming to have fallen asleep.
It would be lovely to have all facilities at all locations but the issue you continue to dance around, it all costs money.
That statement seems to show the attitude of a small group of passengers who expect everything from the railway but do not wish to pay for it and expect to travel for pittance. By any chance do you know how much it would cost to put CET equipment on station platforms?
Monty
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x2
And where to put 'it' all after it's been emptied from the trains? Take Waterloo for example, I highly doubt Lambeth London Borough Council will enjoy having to cope with possibly thousands of tons of extra human excrement each year in it's sewer system. Not without significant compensation anyway.
Flamingo
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Blah blah blah :roll:
Does anyone know if there are any legal requirements re train toilet provision?
I.E Journeys over 90 mins must have toilets etc.(or whatever time/distance).
If not actually legal, then maybe 'Official Policy'.
Whats to stop the TOCS/ROCS saying ' We have to make all rolling stock DDA compliant by end 2019, to keep costs down, lets just completely remove non CET toilets from Pacers/150s/317s/321s and not replace them (No toilets at all).
Wouldn't be popular but is there any reason they couldn't?
Does that include diversions which make the journey over an hour when it would otherwise be less?
Yes yes yes, usual rhetoric, train companies actually make 3% per ticket actually........
I don't think anyone suggested "all locations" but if there is a significant problem [and I wonder if data is even recorded?] then it ought to be addressed. And saying "it's too difficult" could mean:
a) it's (genuinely) too difficult;
b) we're not bothered.
[And yes, I did unit diagramming during my railway career and I know that sometimes problems can be too difficult to resolve. I also know that some people can't be bothered ......]
Posters have been saying that a train should always have a toilet so surely what that means is that every possible stabling point would need facilities to sort a toilet issue just incase it were to pop up, obviously that isn't really that viable.
Its all good and well having the facilities at the depot and having them sorted when diagramming has units going back to depots but having them at all stabling points just in case is stupid.
Its all good and well having the facilities at the depot and having them sorted when diagramming has units going back to depots but having them at all stabling points just in case is stupid.
I'm not sure expecting a working toilet is classed as expecting it all but mere basics of service! If there are 5 toilets on a 12 car train and all 5 are OOS that is unacceptable. If there is only one toilet and that breaks due to misuse or over use is a different matter.
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And what if all 5 of your toilets are OOU because of misuse? As soon as you put people on a train you risk having five idiots who can block a toilet, there would be nothing stopping it happening on the first train of the day.
It could enter service on a Saturday morning with all 5 working, one train would only need to pick up 5 drunks from the night before and 5 blocked toilets. Take the train totally OOS for the rest of the day and cancel its diagram?
It could enter service on a Saturday morning with all 5 working, one train would only need to pick up 5 drunks from the night before and 5 blocked toilets. Take the train totally OOS for the rest of the day and cancel its diagram?
Is it really that unreasonable to hope that the TOC has a maintenance person at the terminating station who knows how to unblock a toilet?
michael769
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I believe the process was shown on on of the episodes of the recent BBC Documentary. It involved the use of a plunger.
Yep it is, on simple older toilets which the one shown on the Railway was. However the vast majority of toilets are a much more complex system more akin to an aircraft toilet than the one sat in you bathroom at home. So my question stands.
Could you elaborate please?
I'm genuinely interested in how much work it is, and from your post you at least intimate that you know.
Older stock (Sprinters, Mk3 carriages) have a simple toilet. Water comes from a tank, flushes a normal ceramic toilet and flushes the waste out of a pipe straight onto the tank. Pro - they are simple to fix and harder to block/break. Con - they dump raw sewage onto the track regardless of where they are (so in stationslevel crossings/foot crossings/pointwork)
New stock has what is effectively a portaloo chemical toilet, hence the fact the scent of newer train toilets is that of a portaloo. So they flush from a tank to what is clearly the plastic bowl of a chemical toilet and the resulting waste is stored in a retention tank under the train. Therefore they block and fill up. In order to empty one they need to be at a depot with the equipment to empty them so if stock is not in a depot overnight and they have a blocked or full toilet then that toilet is staying blocked. It isn't necessarily a difficult job but a job that needs equipment that is not always available.
New stock has what is effectively a portaloo chemical toilet, hence the fact the scent of newer train toilets is that of a portaloo. So they flush from a tank to what is clearly the plastic bowl of a chemical toilet and the resulting waste is stored in a retention tank under the train. Therefore they block and fill up. In order to empty one they need to be at a depot with the equipment to empty them so if stock is not in a depot overnight and they have a blocked or full toilet then that toilet is staying blocked. It isn't necessarily a difficult job but a job that needs equipment that is not always available.
So we've had go in a bottle, stick it out the door at the next station and now use the sink? Would you use your sink at home?
And being as pragmatic as possible, what would be the point in putting a urinal in, as you would only have to have the same number of full toilets as you do currently and they would presumably take up more space (that is, if you plan to have a door and a sink as well, and not just stick one to the back of a seat)?
In work I have got a book about an inch and a half thick about what to do about toilet problems on the train, it would probably take me about 2 hours just to scan it.
Its all rather pointless giving us the book because there is no way we would have the time to go through the whole procedure anyway, to "reverse" flush a loo (to clear the blockage) can be a bit "messy" anyway!
I dont think the books are issued now anyway.
On one of the trains I get to work I normally sit near the toilets. A woman gets on at a later stop and immediately checks the toilets. If they are out of order she rushes off again.
The rest of the journey is only 25 minutes. I heard her saying "I had to wait an hour until a train with a working toilet came along".
The rest of the journey is only 25 minutes. I heard her saying "I had to wait an hour until a train with a working toilet came along".
PHILIPE
Veteran Member
Joined train at Taffs Well recently on way to Cardiff and found toilet door of 150 locked. As we ran into Cathays some 20 minutes later, door suddenly opened, bloke dashed out and left train. En route several passengers tried the door. They can be useful for fare dodgers.
Gwenllian2001
Member
Twenty minutes between Taffs well and Cathays?
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