dmtransport841
Member
Trent Barton got at least one eclipse on the Comet without any, in fact, it was reported none of the Comet eclipses got any earlier in the week, plus one of the red Notts & Derby solos not got one installed when I did it.
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Audio/visual "next stop" announcements on buses
- Thread starter geoffk
- Start date
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R
RailUK Forums
It doesn’t have any figures, but https://www.heraldseries.co.uk/news/24906598.oxford-bus-firm-says-accidents-board-incredibly-rare/ mentions two accidents, one of which resulted in death where people fell down stairs on Oxford buses.
Article is from February 2025, I’ve certainly noticed the bus announcements about being seated since then.
joieman
Member
The Eclipses on the Comet are supposed to be replaced with Optare Versas soon, so fitting NSA systems to them are probably of second order to getting the newer buses repainted and refurbished.
RJ
Established Member
Aside from the exceptions shown here in section 4 and a limited unpublished exemption in place for emergency rail replacement, any bus or coach on rail replacement is required to have it fitted and working now. The notable exceptions are buses on long distance services and those with less than 17 seats.
I've had my whole active fleet fitted and I cover routes across a large part of the UK. I do most of the mileage myself which means I get to monitor how it's working and listen to comments passengers make. Rail replacement is what I specialise in and I carry equipment to update the programming on the fly. I think the work involved with the programming to smooth out any missing or undesired announcement triggers shouldn't be underestimated. Especially for emergency rail replacement where the first and last stations and calling patterns are often of a custom nature and not the same as pre-planned routes.
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I did a video on this specifically last week and did 7 buses across MK that should have all complied.
2 were fully compliant (Arriva)
1 had no kit at all (Arriva)
1 had sound but not visual (Stagecoach)
1 had visual but not sound (Arriva)
2 had kit but not displaying the route (Uno + Arriva)
I also did a long journey the week before and had
Stagecoach - 2 x kit installed but showing date/time only
2 x Red Group (1 was ex NCT and had no kit, 1 was a 25 plate Evora that was stuck on diagnostics screen)
1 x First (fully working)
1 x Reading Bus (fully working)
2 x TFL (fully working)
So it's deffo hit and miss.
And cheeky plug that if you want to check it out, it's on my YouTube channel
2 were fully compliant (Arriva)
1 had no kit at all (Arriva)
1 had sound but not visual (Stagecoach)
1 had visual but not sound (Arriva)
2 had kit but not displaying the route (Uno + Arriva)
I also did a long journey the week before and had
Stagecoach - 2 x kit installed but showing date/time only
2 x Red Group (1 was ex NCT and had no kit, 1 was a 25 plate Evora that was stuck on diagnostics screen)
1 x First (fully working)
1 x Reading Bus (fully working)
2 x TFL (fully working)
So it's deffo hit and miss.
And cheeky plug that if you want to check it out, it's on my YouTube channel
chris53
Member
Some of the announcements are incredibly loud, was on one today that actually hurt my ears it was so loud
Cesarcollie
Member
- Joined
- 5 Jun 2016
- Messages
- 834
Bear in mind that ibus (TfL) doesn’t actually meet the specifications set out in PSVAIR. It is however covered by short-term exemptions I recollect.
RJ
Established Member
I think theirs qualifies as partially compliant which gives them until 2031 to upgrade those vehicles.
Yes, iBus v1 does not but I believe the current version that is rolling out on all new vehicles after (2023?) is compliant.
Essentially if you've got the screen facing the wheelchair bay it's likely you're compliant.
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PSVAIR sets out the decibels that an announcement is between, if it exceeds this it's not compliant so it's worth reporting to the operator so that they can check.
thenextstopis
Member
First Cymru have done a decent job of rolling out screens since I last posted. However, they are still only partially compliant; there is no screen facing the wheelchair bay. They use dot matrix screens which do not appear to be well suited for the Welsh language since they are not capable of rendering some symbols like ô. But you know you take what you can get. Most buses have a good volume but one or too are very quiet. Also the software is a bit glitchy at times and doesn't render stops or stops early...
Some older buses don't have kit; I'd imagine they'll be phased out shortly. Hopefully they'll bring in newer hybrid or electric buses.
Some older buses don't have kit; I'd imagine they'll be phased out shortly. Hopefully they'll bring in newer hybrid or electric buses.
RJ
Established Member
How old are the buses? To be compliant with Section 14.3 of the PSVAIR legislation, they would only need one screen facing the back of the vehicle, viewable from all priority seats and forward facing wheelchairs if they entered service before 1st October 2024. Only vehicles newer than that also need a screen viewable from a rear facing wheelchair.
From what I’ve seen in London at least, manufacturers are adhering to this as some 74 plates and everything newer also have a forward facing screen.
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Bee Network Stagecoach Manchester's E300s have now got the dot matrix screens fitted but where its situated I don't think wheelchair passengers can see it.
Why they went for dot matrix screens on these ex First E300s I don't know as they could easily have had the proper screens fitted like what First Worcestershire have had done and its fitted just behind the front door partition.
Why they went for dot matrix screens on these ex First E300s I don't know as they could easily have had the proper screens fitted like what First Worcestershire have had done and its fitted just behind the front door partition.
I believe First Worcester has actually replaced the proper screen woth dot matrix? Correct me if I’m wrong.
thenextstopis
Member
Oh quite old. They don't need to have the screens. About a decade or so old now, I'd say is the rough mean age.
I do wish they'd introduce newer buses though.
py_megapixel
Established Member
In what way is iBus in a general sense non-compliant with the regulations?
Same. Couldn't believe now loud it was - it overcame my loud headphones. Quite a few other people were loudly complaining too, and switched to the side without the speakers (as did i, not that it helped)
thenextstopis
Member
How do we report non compliant buses/operators and how will this be handled?
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If they didn't put it in, it's only partially compliant. But that's acceptable until 2031.
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Newer buses need another screen facing rearwards for wheelchair users in the wheelchair bay. A lot of London buses don't have it, although some operators have put rear facing (or side facing) screens in.
If they didn't put it in, it's only partially compliant. But that's acceptable until 2031.
RJ
Established Member
The majority of TfL's pre-October 2024 double deckers aren't fitted with a visual display that can be seen from the priority seats. The NRMs are an exception to this but most of the rest need a display positioned above the front nearside wheel arch to comply. However this omission does still allow for partially compliant status, so TfL have until October 2031 to sort it. Quite a lot of these buses will still be in service at that point so it would be a good business opportunity for anyone who can offer a service retrofitting additional displays.
Not all buses in the TfL fleet are fitted with hearing loops. I've bought several over the last few years and none of them had a hearing loop or any evidence that one was ever installed.
I'm not sure if there's an alert prior to the bus terminates here, bus on diversion or hail & ride announcements - there wasn't one last time I used their buses, but one is needed to comply with the legislation.
I suspect TfL had some influence when the definition of "partially compliant" was being drafted into the legislation as all the bases for the legacy iBus system are pretty much covered.
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py_megapixel
Established Member
I have only ever found one British bus company actually complying with this rule, that being First in Bristol.
There seems to be about a 50% chance in my experience that the terminus isn't announced at all, because if the driver sets the system up for the next trip (or selects "not in service") before the terminating announcement has played then it will just never play.
RJ
Established Member
I have this with Mobitec if I use the “duty” feature which automatically changes the trip on the driver’s behalf. The easier the job is made for drivers, the better. However the start of the new trip overrides the last stop trigger which then makes it non-compliant.
There are programming workarounds to ensure a last stop announcement is played. I’ve thought of and trialled several and noted down the results of each one. So far the most effective is to not use the duty function which means the driver has to select the new trip every time.
As for alert chimes, TfL did add one to manual announcements some years back but not automated ones. Naturally I’ve taken a much higher level of interest in train PIS announcements to model my own templates on for rail replacement and chimes don’t seem to be an issue in some of the systems used - the best example that springs to mind is Southeastern’s HS1 fleet.
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Goldfish62
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 14 Feb 2010
- Messages
- 13,220
You'll be hard pressed to find any GoAhead buses in Cornwall with working next stop announcements either. All the screens usually show is recruitment adverts. It's all in keeping with the ramshakle operation that is Go South West.
py_megapixel
Established Member
This reminds me of another problem I've noticed in some cases with circular routes. If the same vehicle does multiple consecutive trips around the same route then drivers will not usually reset the system at the start of each trip, so for all but the first trip the display just says "This service terminates here" and nothing is announced.
Another problem with circular routes is that because the start and the terminus are in the same place, the terminating announcement can be incorrectly triggered at the start of the route.
Galactic142
Member
Much of Barrow still doesn't have next-stop announcements, except for on the new Solo SRs. On the old ADL 300s and 400s there now seems to be an announcement that plays when the bell is pressed, along the lines of "Stop requested. Please remain in your seat until the vehicle has come to a complete stop". However, it's barely audible and it seems a fairly useless announcement. If there is an accessibility-related reason for these maybe someone could enlighten me, but surely you'd know the stop is requested as the bell's just rung, and the bell's much louder anyway. They don't have next stop announcements and even though they've recently fitted display screens these don't usually show anything other than 'Welcome aboard'.
On the other hand, I've been on similar-aged buses around Lancaster and they seem to all have announcements fitted, so I suspect roll-out across the Stagecoach CNL fleet is just taking a while.